Man caught trying to enter Magic Kingdom with gun

[Vaughn4380]

He (or she) thinks they are going to stand up on a table and open their coat to reveal sticks of dynamite, just to give anyone with a gun a fair shot, and to shout some last words...because this is a movie or something.

You know what, that is a fair point, so let me link to an article that explains much better than I can how this works. This is how the Israelis handle their suicide bombers and how they prevent 80% of them from hurting anyone:

"A number of attacks have been foiled by police and observant bystanders or because the bombers were careless, acted suspiciously, had trouble with their explosives or backed out at the last minute.

...According to some estimates only about 20 percent of suicide bombers manage to kill or injure anybody and only 5 percent of the attacks kill more than five people.

...

Often times suicide bombers give themselves away. The same police official told Reuters “The terrorist who comes to carry out an attack, I don't want to say it's body language that sends the message because that sounds too far fetched, but it's true."

A number of attacks have been foiled by bus drivers who spotted bombers at bus stops and drove on or subdued the attackers before they could set off their bombs. One bus driver found a suspicious looking watermelon that turned out to be packed with explosives. A bus driver who wrestled an attacker to the ground told Reuters, “I Thought he going to a festival...because there were a lot of young guys like him on the bus. But when I asked him where he was going, he didn't answer, and came up the stairs slowly, cradling a large bag...he looked drugged and hypnotized. I grabbed him by the shirt and asked where he was going, but he still didn't answer. Then I saw a switch sticking out of his bag and I knew I dealing with a terrorist." He then pushed the bomber off the bus and sat on him until soldiers arrived."

From here: http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat58/sub385/item2363.html

So to those who think it so odd that you might be able to identify a bomber before they set off the explosive, there you have it, from a society much more familiar with suicide bombers than the good old USA.

 

[Vaughn4380]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

So you are in favor of the bombs going off?

 

[Vaughn4380]

It doesn't offend me at all. What offends me is the idea that you seem to actually think that they would come in with a sign on them saying "Hey, I'm a bomber, if you have a gun shoot me before I set it off." That's the part that doesn't make sense.

Read the article I posted above, bombers get nervous and don't act like the rest of the crowd. No they won't scream their intentions out loud, but it has been proven that some of them will give themselves away.

 

[peter11435]

So you are in favor of the bombs going off?

Some may give themselves away. But the average good guy with a gun is certainly not going to recognize these signs to correctly identify them as a person with intent to cause harm. And shooting at someone with explosives is not a reasonable way to prevent them from going off.

 

[Vaughn4380]

You know what guys, it has been fun debating this, but the other posters were right when they said we are all going to have to agree to disagree. I don't see the conversation moving in a productive direction from here and I have family to hang out with. I wish you all the best.

 

[aw14]

Tighter laws have proved remarkably effective , just not in the US. I know banning guns won't make the illegal ones dissapear but something has to change somewhere . I cant tell you a fix but the current laws in the USA don't seem to be working.

Actually certain areas of Europe with the strictest laws have had mass shootings. Tighter and stricter laws don't work typically and the statistics usually support that.

 

[jaklgreen]

My common sense says I would rather a bomber be shot and stopped instead of finishing his bombing. Sorry if that offends you so much.

But that is the issue. You don't know who a suicide bomber is until it is too late. They don't go walking around police stations announcing what they are. They look like any other person with a backpack or coat on. Unless you are are superman with x-ray vision and lightening speed, there is no way some average citizen is going to be able to spot and stop a suicide bomber. You can't just go around shooting suspicious looking people.

 

[jaklgreen]

You know what, that is a fair point, so let me link to an article that explains much better than I can how this works. This is how the Israelis handle their suicide bombers and how they prevent 80% of them from hurting anyone:

"A number of attacks have been foiled by police and observant bystanders or because the bombers were careless, acted suspiciously, had trouble with their explosives or backed out at the last minute.

...According to some estimates only about 20 percent of suicide bombers manage to kill or injure anybody and only 5 percent of the attacks kill more than five people.

...

Often times suicide bombers give themselves away. The same police official told Reuters “The terrorist who comes to carry out an attack, I don't want to say it's body language that sends the message because that sounds too far fetched, but it's true."

A number of attacks have been foiled by bus drivers who spotted bombers at bus stops and drove on or subdued the attackers before they could set off their bombs. One bus driver found a suspicious looking watermelon that turned out to be packed with explosives. A bus driver who wrestled an attacker to the ground told Reuters, “I Thought he going to a festival...because there were a lot of young guys like him on the bus. But when I asked him where he was going, he didn't answer, and came up the stairs slowly, cradling a large bag...he looked drugged and hypnotized. I grabbed him by the shirt and asked where he was going, but he still didn't answer. Then I saw a switch sticking out of his bag and I knew I dealing with a terrorist." He then pushed the bomber off the bus and sat on him until soldiers arrived."

From here: http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat58/sub385/item2363.html

So to those who think it so odd that you might be able to identify a bomber before they set off the explosive, there you have it, from a society much more familiar with suicide bombers than the good old USA.

They also have military personnel with assault rifles walking the streets. It is a small country. You can not realistically have that kind of police/military presence in all of our cities. The whole country is the size of New Jersey. If we were that small then I would say, yes we should be able to stop more incidents. But that is not a valid comparison to the USA.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

Actually certain areas of Europe with the strictest laws have had mass shootings. Tighter and stricter laws don't work typically and the statistics usually support that.

Not to the same extent as the US. And I am sure there are statistics to prove you wrong and right .

 

[TeriofTerror]

Oh, my god. This issue is very important to me, but I just can't handle so much stupid. I guess that's why stupidity always seems to win.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Read the article I posted above, bombers get nervous and don't act like the rest of the crowd. No they won't scream their intentions out loud, but it has been proven that some of them will give themselves away.

Just as a final note. You constantly either misread what I have been trying to say or intentionally are not getting it at all. I certainly want things to be stopped before anything happens, be that bombing or shooting people. This topic is about a regular guest carrying in a weapon.

I have not been talking about a trained professional that is there exclusively to prevent that from happening. They know what to look for. Joe Blow, the guy that bought his gun from Walmart, does not have that skill taught to them. They have had no training but feel that having a gun will not only protect himself but others is the danger. However, you cannot let anyone in with a weapon unless they are on verifiable duty because unless you can read minds there is no real way to determine their motivation. Even if you could you can't determine the degree of expertise that they have with that gun. I don't want them in there with delusions of grandeur thinking that they are going to save lives like it was a movie. They cannot and they, in fact, stand a good chance of making it worse.

That is what this has been about. If you want weapons to protect your home or your property fine, that's what the 2nd amendment is about. To unnecessarily carry one into a crowded area with no other reasoning then "something might happen and I want to be ready" is just asking for a bad end result. And my life may be as much in danger from their uneducated reaction as from a real terrorist. Acting nervous is an indication of many things and it isn't exclusive to "I'm going to blow the place up". They might have brought in a bottle of beer and are concerned that they might get caught. Or should we shoot them and then find out why they look upset?

 

[EOD K9]

Suicide bombers can unwittingly give off pre-attack indicators. I've watched many official videos where they have been caught prior and also after detonation (the actions/indicators were still there however). Disney also have active measures for detecting suicide bombers. I know this because I have helped them train in such methods.
I have carried in the parks several times before the days of metal detectors. I have since stopped, but I am strapped up any other time I am out and about. Unfortunately it seems as if you cannot even be a good samaritan without getting robbed or worse.
@Aftershizzle By the way, I am tired of Team Sky and your track team. Cav needs to look before crossing the boards. Also. I did meet Lizzie Armistead last year at Worlds and she is quite cute in person.

 

[Matthew]

Actually certain areas of Europe with the strictest laws have had mass shootings. Tighter and stricter laws don't work typically and the statistics usually support that.

Really? This is the data for 2009-2013.... Granted the population in America is larger but in those years you had over double the amount of 'rampage shooting' incidents than any other country on that list... Stricter gun laws have restricted the number of incidents across Europe.

 

[Kman]

Many are suicides and many are police shootings.. So you consider just legitimate homicides then you are left with the criminal mind of our citizens. That's not changing until the economy improves and a life of crime doesn't seem so glamorous to these poor kids growing up.

Socioeconomic change will do miracles for all gun deaths simuicide, crime related or otherwise..

No argument but no other western nation comes even close to the levels of gun violence in the US. Having so many weapons, many of which have no place in regular.society, just opens the door to people having the ability to inflict incredible damage in a moment of rage or.frustration.

Canada is a heavily armed society compared to many but we also have very stringent gun laws and, knock on wood, we don't deal with the same levels of violence. Our largest city, Toronto, with a population of 4-5 million, has fewer than 70 homicides this year so far. I don't recall a year where we ever came close to 100. I would like to think that gun control plays a role. Not the only reason but definitely a role

 

[bhg469]

No argument but no other western nation comes even close to the levels of gun violence in the US. Having so many weapons, many of which have no place in regular.society, just opens the door to people having the ability to inflict incredible damage in a moment of rage or.frustration.

Canada is a heavily armed society compared to many but we also have very stringent gun laws and, knock on wood, we don't deal with the same levels of violence. Our largest city, Toronto, with a population of 4-5 million, has fewer than 70 homicides this year so far. I don't recall a year where we ever came close to 100. I would like to think that gun control plays a role. Not the only reason but definitely a role

I have been to Toronto many times, its a beautiful city, but very safe in comparison. I love very close (in buffalo) I have told many people from NYC that if it was as close as Toronto was to me, i would opt for Toronto every time. I've never felt even close to unsafe as I do in some cities I've been to the US.

No other country has our unique crime situation. We did it to ourselves but it has a lot less to do with guns than it does to do with decades of segregation and dicision. We are so close to Canada but we are worlds apart when it comes to how different our population perceives criminal behavior.

 

[Kman]

I have been to Toronto many times, its a beautiful city, but very safe in comparison. I love very close (in buffalo) I have told many people from NYC that if it was as close as Toronto was to me, i would opt for Toronto every time. I've never felt even close to unsafe as I do in some cities I've been to the US.

No other country has our unique crime situation. We did it to ourselves but it has a lot less to do with guns than it does to do with decades of segregation and dicision. We are so close to Canada but we are worlds apart when it comes to how different our population perceives criminal behavior.

I agree with you. The only caveat...guns don't cause crime but easy access does tend to help increase it and make many of those incidents worse had the guns not been as readily available. Just my opinion

 

[Matthew]

@Aftershizzle By the way, I am tired of Team Sky and your track team. Cav needs to look before crossing the boards. Also. I did meet Lizzie Armistead last year at Worlds and she is quite cute in person.

Yeah unfortunate mistake by Cav... Who has apologised and accepted blame... Interestingly however Viviani did not blame him and said the other rider was to blame.

Team Sky are just dominant at the moment... As a Brit I love it and hope for more at the Vuelta starting Saturday

As for Lizzie I've heard she's a lovely person... Bit of controversy over her selection and missed doping tests however apparently there were mitigating circumstances but I don't know them lol

 

[draybook]

Gun control will work just as well as the drug control laws we have on file. Gun control is for citizens, as criminals don't follow them. Simple common sense.

 

[Matthew]

Gun control will work just as well as the drug control laws we have on file. Gun control is for citizens, as criminals don't follow them. Simple common sense.

More potential for accidents with guns than drugs. Your average citizen doesn't keep drugs in his house but keeps a gun... How many people have been shot by toddlers this year?

Personally don't think you can compare drug control laws and gun control laws. There will always be people who break the law but laws for the most part are adhered to by people and are there for a reason.

It doesn't really matter anyway as US Law on guns will never change.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

More potential for accidents with guns than drugs. Your average citizen doesn't keep drugs in his house but keeps a gun... How many people have been shot by toddlers this year?

Personally don't think you can compare drug control laws and gun control laws. There will always be people who break the law but laws for the most part are adhered to by people and are there for a reason.

It doesn't really matter anyway as US Law on guns will never change.

Agreed. Until ALL of America realises it has a gun problem and stops avoiding the fact then nothing will change .