Man caught trying to enter Magic Kingdom with gun

aw14

Well-Known Member
I fear it won't
I am in no way a gun nut, in fact I have never held or fired a gun. However, I would be remiss to not state that an all out ban would be horrible. A ban would only affect the law abiding citizens and not the criminals who will still have them. As citizens, we do not want unarmed law abiders. We are setting ourselves up for tyranny which is what the founding parents feared.
 

DizArielFan

Member
Agree, glamourizing firearms isn't good but wouldn't tighter legislation (not ban) help as well ?
Tighter laws have been proven to be worthless, for example in NYC you need a license to even hold a handgun and it takes from a few weeks to a few months of meticulous checks to get the license. Yet criminals in NYC such as muggers etc are armed with pistols, I am pretty sure they didn't bother to get the proper license to own said pistols. A ban also wouldn't magically make those "mugger pistols" disappear. The sheer number of guns in the US is mind boggling, I remember reading about an Dept of Justice estimate that just in NYC there are about a million+ unregistered handguns. Wrap your head around that, at least a million.
 

Matthew

Well-Known Member

O.....k somehow we've got Israel and Palestine into the mix which is a totally different situation.

Again the other one is a stabbing not a terrorist attack.

By your logic a drive by shooting in Compton where a group of people is sat on a front porch would be a terrorist attack!

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/a-...tats-say-its-more-likely-to-harm-your-family/

Anybody can find a website to support their opinion but the simple point is using terrorism as an excuse for gun ownership doesn't wash in MY opinion and that's all it is... An opinion that I'm entitled to just like you are... America isn't the only country under threat of terrorism... We don't clamour for more guns in the UK when we suffer an attack.
 

Vaughn4380

Active Member
O.....k somehow we've got Israel and Palestine into the mix which is a totally different situation.

You asked:

When was the last time a civilian with a gun stopped a terrorist attack?

Then you keep redefining the question and disagreeing on what terrorism is. Random knifings in a mall, yeah that has terrorist act written all over it. But let's just go ahead and call it something else, perhaps "random violence" is a good term we can all agree on. Point is, a law-abiding permit holder with a legal gun stopped it. I see that as a good thing.
 

Matthew

Well-Known Member
Wasn't a mall and again... NOT charged with terrorism so NO it wasn't terrorism.

You seem to be very mixed up over what is terrorism and what isn't and keen to label everything that justify your argument as terrorism.

I haven't redefined it once... I agree with you that school shootings can be classed as terrorism but your countries law actually seems to disagree. But random shootings & stabbings are more often than not... Not terrorism.

There's arguments for guns and arguments against guns... Coming from a country where nobody legally carries one (which has vastly reduced the guns in circulation) I feel safer than I would if every Tom dick and Harry was carrying one... But as I said its opinion... Just as I was of the opinion that a certain statement made by somebody that if club goes in Orlando had been armed and firing back it would of been a good thing... I certainly don't think a bunch of people who had been drinking armed with weapons would be a good thing and would of possibly done more harm in an appalling situation but again that's my opinion.

We should probably agree to disagree on this issue and leave it because it's one of those contentious ones that people clearly feel very different about.
 
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Santa Raccoon 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
Tighter laws have been proven to be worthless, for example in NYC you need a license to even hold a handgun and it takes from a few weeks to a few months of meticulous checks to get the license. Yet criminals in NYC such as muggers etc are armed with pistols, I am pretty sure they didn't bother to get the proper license to own said pistols. A ban also wouldn't magically make those "mugger pistols" disappear. The sheer number of guns in the US is mind boggling, I remember reading about an Dept of Justice estimate that just in NYC there are about a million+ unregistered handguns. Wrap your head around that, at least a million.
Tighter laws have proved remarkably effective , just not in the US. I know banning guns won't make the illegal ones dissapear but something has to change somewhere . I cant tell you a fix but the current laws in the USA don't seem to be working.
 

Vaughn4380

Active Member
Wasn't a mall

My mistake, it was a grocery store. Doesn't change the context of what I typed.

You keep coming back to the charges received by the individuals. The charges are what our legal system use and may not mesh up with your legal system or what an individual would be charged with in the UK (I assume you are in the UK?). You can be charged with multiple counts of murder for committing a terrorist act, but it wouldn't specifically state "terrorism" in the official court documents. One of the charges used in the Boston Bombing trial was "malicious destruction of property resulting in death". But few argue that was not a terrorist act.

This is an overly broad explanation and charges used in our legal system get very complex. I am guessing the UK might go a different route and have some type of all encompassing Terrorism charge?
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
Tighter laws have been proven to be worthless, for example in NYC you need a license to even hold a handgun and it takes from a few weeks to a few months of meticulous checks to get the license. Yet criminals in NYC such as muggers etc are armed with pistols, I am pretty sure they didn't bother to get the proper license to own said pistols. A ban also wouldn't magically make those "mugger pistols" disappear. The sheer number of guns in the US is mind boggling, I remember reading about an Dept of Justice estimate that just in NYC there are about a million+ unregistered handguns. Wrap your head around that, at least a million.
I live in NY state and my license took 20 months. NYC a carry permit is not possible unless you're a millionaire and have connected friends. It is true about touch a gun though. You cant shoot one at a range under supervision of an officer or anyone. My wife can't go with me and shoot my gun anywhere in the state. If you're over 21 it is illegal to touch a handgun no matter what. I had to get a PA permit for her to legally learn how to use a gun.
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
Agree, glamourizing firearms isn't good but wouldn't tighter legislation (not ban) help as well ?
No it won't. Legislation only effects those who follow the law. You're talking about mandatory inspections and locking up guns but who is inspectectong the illegal firearms? The ones that are responsible for most of the murders that contribute to the rates of gun deaths?
 

Santa Raccoon 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
No it won't. Legislation only effects those who follow the law. You're talking about mandatory inspections and locking up guns but who is inspectectong the illegal firearms? The ones that are responsible for most of the murders that contribute to the rates of gun deaths?
By making the guns harder to get for everyone and imposing stiffer sentencing for firearms offences then it would be a step in reduction .
 

Matthew

Well-Known Member
Yes I am UK and yes there is a difference in some respects as we have the Terrorism Act.... Boston Bomber was also charged with using a weapon of mass destruction which clearly points it towards terrorism.

But in terms of the charges I would point to the Global Terrorism Database as to what is defined as a terrorist attack (it's also funded by your government).

Like I said I'm leaving it now (the Olympic Coverage of track cycling is about to start and I want to watch Team GB continue to dominate lol) we clearly disagree and I don't want to be arguing with people although i will say it was a pleasure debating things with you.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Seriously? Shooting a suicide bomber before he can detonate is "very little effect"? I try to stay out of gun debates online, but your comment just makes no sense. It is my hope that any attempted suicide bombing is stopped immediately. Either by trained police using the handgun they carry every day, or by any CCW holder that might be in the area (although I will admit the police are probably better trained for such a scenario).

Why are you in favor of doing nothing to stop a suicide bomber? You have already given up should such an event happen.
Why are you unable to use common sense at all. A suicide bomber is the type that has the explosives in a range that will kill him/herself when detonated. Either on their person or within their reach. I'm thinking firing a hot round into that space would be less then successful at eliminating that problem. My point was pointing a gun at someone like that would be ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. A trained person might, might just be able to stop such a thing, but, a common everyday citizen that happens to have a gun on them will not. They will create a bigger disaster then they will prevent. As a regular person I don't want a wanna be hero trying to save me, I'll take my chances with my own wits. If I'm successful great, if not, well I still have a better chance then some trigger happy person with a hero complex adding to the destruction.

BTW, I'd say that the identity of a suicide bomber is not known until it happens. Today villain doesn't stand there threatening, they just do the deed and a member of his organization will take credit for it later. The bomber himself has gone off to meet with his 70 virgins.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
A bigger disaster than a bomb going off? You are not thinking this through at all.
Think about what you are saying. How do you identify a suicide bomber? How do you stop it before it happens? Just shoot everyone in the place in the hopes that one of them is the bomber? The bomb goes off and then you know who did it, not before. The only proactive action that we have is partially what this thread is about. Stopping people from bringing deadly weapons in to begin with will eliminate any of them from doing any damage. In other words, there is no reason to bring one into a theme park. With the crowd scenario the only thing that would possibly work is an explosion type of thing. As far as taking away weapons at the door, who would get the responsibility of thinking "oh, that guy looks safe enough, let's allow him to bring in a gun and find someone that looks dangerous. That would be pretty effective I would think. Not!
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I specifically stated the police were better trained to handle these situations and I would hardly levy your quoted attack at them.
That would be because it isn't directed at them, it is the wanna be hero's that I am worried about not the on duty trained professionals and I don't care if their name is Dirty Harry.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
My common sense says I would rather a bomber be shot and stopped instead of finishing his bombing. Sorry if that offends you so much.
It doesn't offend me at all. What offends me is the idea that you seem to actually think that they would come in with a sign on them saying "Hey, I'm a bomber, if you have a gun shoot me before I set it off." That's the part that doesn't make sense.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
It doesn't offend me at all. What offends me is the idea that you seem to actually think that they would come in with a sign on them saying "Hey, I'm a bomber, if you have a gun shoot me before I set it off." That's the part that doesn't make sense.

He (or she) thinks they are going to stand up on a table and open their coat to reveal sticks of dynamite, just to give anyone with a gun a fair shot, and to shout some last words...because this is a movie or something.
 

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