Major 2015 Pirates of the Caribbean Refurbishment Watch/Rumor.

[1023]

Not to stray off POTC, but good grief, how much longer will Ellen be a part of Universe? Is there a contract or something? I'm all for retro stuff, but this is just a little too silly at this point.

I hope they already have plans we do not know about for doing something exciting with this. Anything.

Many things in this attraction are broken. Some things have been removed. The screen outages have occurred and were allowed to be ignored for consecutive days during one of my recent trips.

In the picture provided of the pre-show area, the missing screen would have been "Judy" at that point (post1118 which is replaced with a windmill for LwtL I think). This is the first thing you see as you enter the atraction and as @Goofyernmost said, it's bad show. @Mike S has pointed out elsewhere in a thread dedicated to Elasmosaurus and Ellen, the Ellen AA and the "snake-like creature" have been gone for over two-thirds of the year. I think I saw mentioned that something was placed there recently. I'll have to check it out when I go to "drink and dine".

The rumor for EEA/UoE is a possible "Good Dinosaur" tie in ride (which I am not convinced of).

Broken pieces and sub-standard show in PotC is more of an issue the slowly dying EEA/UoE as PotC is one of the most utilized attractions by visitors. The PotC issues are many and are mainly from neglect and lack of preventative maintenance.

*1023*

 

[Mike S]

Many things in this attraction are broken. Some things have been removed. The screen outages have occurred and were allowed to be ignored for consecutive days during one of my recent trips.

In the picture provided of the pre-show area, the missing screen would have been "Judy" at that point (post1118 which is replaced with a windmill for LwtL I think). This is the first thing you see as you enter the atraction and as @Goofyernmost said, it's bad show. @Mike S has pointed out elsewhere in a thread dedicated to Elasmosaurus and Ellen, the Ellen AA and the "snake-like creature" have been gone for over two-thirds of the year. I think I saw mentioned that something was placed there recently. I'll have to check it out when I go to "drink and dine".

The rumor for EEA/UoE is a possible "Lucky" tie in ride (which I am not convinced of).

Broken pieces and sub-standard show in PotC is more of an issue the slowly dying EEA/UoE as PotC is one of the most utilized attractions by visitors. The PotC issues are many and are mainly from neglect and lack of preventative maintenance.

*1023*

"Lucky"?

 

[1023]

"Lucky"?

Sorry...I fixed it "Good Dinosaur" ...just wishful thinking by my subconscious.

*1023*

 

[Mike S]

Sorry...I fixed it "Good Dinosaur" ...just wishful thinking by my subconscious.

*1023*

If that happened then I really have lost all hope for Epcot. Would be much better as a replacement for DinoRama.

 

[Crazydisneyfanluke]

A lot of AAs don't have full motion anymore. As an aside, I don't recall a time over the last few years when the rain projectors were correctly aligned.

what about the doors working in between the green house and the show rooms?

 

[marni1971]

what about the doors working in between the green house and the show rooms?

Still not working?

 

[Mike S]

Still not working?

Yeah, still not working..........

 

[Crazydisneyfanluke]

Still not working?

When i rode last month they didn't work. At the end a few boats where backed up waiting to be unloaded as well. I didn't even want to ride Ellen.....Speaking of the land pavilion, when is the garden terrace ever open? when do people actual watch the lion king movie?

 

[Cesar R M]

Yeah, still not working..........

still?
how long since they worked?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

A lot of AAs don't have full motion anymore. As an aside, I don't recall a time over the last few years when the rain projectors were correctly aligned.

Just rode Land the other day (this past Thursday) and somewhere around half of the figures in the rainforest scene weren't functioning. Better than it was in October (almost nothing was working that visit), but still sucks. Lots of the bugs weren't moving, and one of the Monkeys was slumped over (only his arm was feebly jerking the vine). I didn't even see the other monkey, either because it was missing or because it was entirely stationary. And plenty of others throughout the ride were sluggish as well.

And yes the door to the greenhouse is still stuck open, I don't know how long this has been broken. It wasn't working in October 2014 either. And as is usually the case with many other rides nowadays, the air conditioning inside the show scenes was also far too weak (something i'm sure the stuck door isn't helping any). Besides the less than appropriate comfort level this has caused, improper climate control will inevitably further accelerate the deterioration of ride scenery and animatronic figures (you'd think they'd have learned this after what happened with Spectromagic, bleh).

I don't expect anything to be done about it, but I did inform a cast member upon unload of the broken and/or limited motion AA's. It could just have been an attempt to brush me off, but she at least SOUNDED very concerned (assuming she wasn't aware of it already and lying, didn't sound like a lie though). She apologized in a sincere manner and said she would inform maintenance immediately, even going over to pick up the phone to call someone while I was leaving the area. May not make a difference, but i'm going to make it a point to inform cast members whenever there are substantial broken effects on rides either way. If for no other reason besides letting them know that people are noticing. It's also weird considering that this ride still has a sponsor, usually it's the sponsor-less attractions that descend into the worst conditions...

I've noticed some different plants in the greenhouse lately, starting with my October 2014 visit i've seen different plant exhibits than normal. One in particular (and I don't know exactly when this was installed), there are some additional new water based planters along the first left turn near the greenhouse entrance. The left side already had some waterfalls, but they added some new ones on the righthand side as well at least somewhat recently. They're constructed out of rockwork, have some small waterfalls and contain some water based plants (such as rice). There were a lot of cast members in the greenhouse, many of which were working on this newish feature placing rocks in the water.

 

[Iwerks64]

In a place the size of Disney can anyone pull themselves into reality long enough to picture the quantity of different parts that would require. Massive amounts of parts, thousands for each piece of machinery. The warehouse alone would be the size of the remaining property of Disney in Orlando. Another question, just how often do you want your major attractions to be closed down to replace parts that aren't broken? It's going to take the same amount of down time to replace a good part as a broken one.

I would also like to place a large wager on the fact that those "calculated" wear items are indeed stocked otherwise many of those breakdowns would not be in operation the next day.

All I'm asking when you guys try and justify millions of dollars worth of useless expense to think with your heads and not your hearts. Not all, but, some of you appear to have never maintained or repaired anything of a mechanical nature otherwise you would be able to understand that. Someone is about to point out replacing safety related parts ahead of time. OK, Absolutely, but there is a huge difference between that and general mechanical items. They are not operating space shuttles here, it's a theme park.

I'm not thinking with my heart, I'm thinking as a business executive who's run major manufacturing operations for multi billion dollar global companies. One of my operations was a square mile factory not 50 miles from WDW that operated 24/7, 365. It is much more cost effective to keep in stock "common" components (as most motion actuating pars in AAs should be) that regularly wear. I'm not talking about in-the-box complete duplicate sets of every figure, every screw, every metal item on the entire property. Part of the design process is a thorough FMEA identifying potential failure modes. Those high RPN items should have backups stocked.

For everything else, you have a quality fabrication and machine shop on site with skilled craftsmen who can create what you need in 24 hours. You stock basic sheet and bar stock, plastics, electronics, etc. to make what you need. In my businesses, an hour of downtime can be very costly. It's more cost effective to be prepared and proactive than to try and react to years of neglect.

I believe this is the way WDW used to operate before multiple rounds of maintenance budget cuts to improve the bottom line. I'm sure one of the insiders like @marni1971 could chime in on the history of the maintenance program.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm not thinking with my heart, I'm thinking as a business executive who's run major manufacturing operations for multi billion dollar global companies. One of my operations was a square mile factory not 50 miles from WDW that operated 24/7, 365. It is much more cost effective to keep in stock "common" components (as most motion actuating pars in AAs should be) that regularly wear. I'm not talking about in-the-box complete duplicate sets of every figure, every screw, every metal item on the entire property. Part of the design process is a thorough FMEA identifying potential failure modes. Those high RPN items should have backups stocked.

For everything else, you have a quality fabrication and machine shop on site with skilled craftsmen who can create what you need in 24 hours. You stock basic sheet and bar stock, plastics, electronics, etc. to make what you need. In my businesses, an hour of downtime can be very costly. It's more cost effective to be prepared and proactive than to try and react to years of neglect.

I believe this is the way WDW used to operate before multiple rounds of maintenance budget cuts to improve the bottom line. I'm sure one of the insiders like @marni1971 could chime in on the history of the maintenance program.

Exactly what proof do you have that they don't still stock those things. And if they did, have the mechanical aspects of the AA's not changed over the past 40 years? How many items do you feel would be necessary to stock if safety was not a factor. Money tied up in inventory collecting dust is not a sound investment in this case, if indeed that is what happens. It seems that swiftness of repair and parts availability are something that goes hand in hand, but, that isn't necessarily what the problem is.

 

[1023]

Exactly what proof do you have that they don't still stock those things. And if they did, have the mechanical aspects of the AA's not changed over the past 40 years? How many items do you feel would be necessary to stock if safety was not a factor. Money tied up in inventory collecting dust is not a sound investment in this case, if indeed that is what happens. It seems that swiftness of repair and parts availability are something that goes hand in hand, but, that isn't necessarily what the problem is.

I wouldn't presume the experience anyone has had with robotics or AA's, so I will present the following basically. While there are many types of actuators and things are actuated by different types (digital/analog, hydraulic/pneumatic/electric), keeping a rotating set of replacements would not be cost prohibitive for even a small amusement park.The real cost of AA's after their creation or purchase is the time to maintain them. The construction and complexity of the figure would dictate the down time for maintenance ( I'm looking at you Yeti). Sometimes the actual tear down and re-fabrication is needed as a part is re-machined or re-created.

Mr. Lincolns, Ben Franklins, Mark Twains... (tough to work on from what I understand) many man hours.
Small world figure....maybe a few hours.

Preventative maintenance will greatly reduce mechanical breakdowns but every moving part will reach a fail state. The goal is replacing it before it gets there. A smallish machine shop with CNC, 3D printers, basic parts (lots of aluminum rod, bearings, screws, etc.) and a parts catalog of all your AAs would be sufficient for day to day stuff.

It's shouldn't be a parts thing, it's a time thing. (Unless it's a one off like the Yeti which is capable of just tearing itself apart.)

ETA: I am not an expert in AAs, just an extreme hobbyist.

*1023*

As an aside, I am currently working on a set of demon wings for a friend's haunt. I'll try to post a photo around Halloween. One of my many distractions.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

Yeah, still not working..........

Wow... they were supposed to be repaired last December/January. How sad.

 

[Iwerks64]

Exactly what proof do you have that they don't still stock those things. And if they did, have the mechanical aspects of the AA's not changed over the past 40 years? How many items do you feel would be necessary to stock if safety was not a factor. Money tied up in inventory collecting dust is not a sound investment in this case, if indeed that is what happens. It seems that swiftness of repair and parts availability are something that goes hand in hand, but, that isn't necessarily what the problem is.

As I'm not employed by TWDC, I have no direct access to their onsite replacement component inventory lists, nor did I claim to. Anecdotally, the number of inoperative effects or limited motion AAs for lengthy periods of time would lead me to believe that they either have no parts, have no maintenance budget/staff or simply dont think it's important enough to repair. "Show" is not a priority.

I'm simply giving you my experience in running mechanical operations. I believe it is important to have "money tied up in inventory" when it means less downtime for my operations. Your experience may be different. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Goofyernmost]

As I'm not employed by TWDC, I have no direct access to their onsite replacement component inventory lists, nor did I claim to. Anecdotally, the number of inoperative effects or limited motion AAs for lengthy periods of time would lead me to believe that they either have no parts, have no maintenance budget/staff or simply dont think it's important enough to repair. "Show" is not a priority.

I'm simply giving you my experience in running mechanical operations. I believe it is important to have "money tied up in inventory" when it means less downtime for my operations. Your experience may be different. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I understand what you are saying, but, you basically implied, if not outright said, that there was no reason to not have sufficient parts on hand to repair AA's. I'm saying that I feel sure that they do have the parts, just not the motivation to fix them, on the spot. They may also be without a huge number of people available with the knowledge and experience to fix them and are spread thin throughout the resort. There are two ways to look at that, either Disney is not staffing properly (could be) or there aren't that many skilled craftsmen available to do that unique type of work. (also could be) It doesn't strike me as a type of skill where they can pull up to a Home Depot and hire day help to do it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I understand what you are saying, but, you basically implied, if not outright said, that there was no reason to not have sufficient parts on hand to repair AA's. I'm saying that I feel sure that they do have the parts, just not the motivation to fix them, on the spot. They may also be without a huge number of people available with the knowledge and experience to fix them and are spread thin throughout the resort. There are two ways to look at that, either Disney is not staffing properly (could be) or there aren't that many skilled craftsmen available to do that unique type of work. (also could be) It doesn't strike me as a type of skill where they can pull up to a Home Depot and hire day help to do it.

No matter how you slice it there is one root cause, Efficiency kicking the snot out of Show.

 

[Iwerks64]

I understand what you are saying, but, you basically implied, if not outright said, that there was no reason to not have sufficient parts on hand to repair AA's. I'm saying that I feel sure that they do have the parts, just not the motivation to fix them, on the spot. They may also be without a huge number of people available with the knowledge and experience to fix them and are spread thin throughout the resort. There are two ways to look at that, either Disney is not staffing properly (could be) or there aren't that many skilled craftsmen available to do that unique type of work. (also could be) It doesn't strike me as a type of skill where they can pull up to a Home Depot and hire day help to do it.

Oh, absolutely. I agree with you here. I originally jumped into the deep end in this thread because it looked like someone else implied they didn't stock sufficient spare parts. Even if they do, the reasons you cite above are most likely also part of the problem. Especially with finding skilled craftsmen. That's becoming a big issue for every industry in the U.S. We've stopped training new craftsmen and the experienced ones are all retiring.

 

[eddy21]

I strongly disagree. While I've never maintained anything of the scope and scale of Pirates, I also only had a 1 man crew doing it (along with all his other duties), and I have maintained animatronics and show pieces.

Not everything requires draining or complex scaffolding. And, they could take it down for shorter periods (unless it needs to be drained, when then you'd have to do the whole ride) instead of 4 month long refurbs every 2 - 3 years.

Well the scope and scale here needs to be drained and extensive work. There are safety issues with work being done on a ride that has to be open in the morning. it's not a road side attraction.

 

[englanddg]

Well the scope and scale here needs to be drained and extensive work. There are safety issues with work being done on a ride that has to be open in the morning. it's not a road side attraction.

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have confused it for South of the Border.

I'm not talking about the state it is CURRENTLY in. Yes, it needs long term downtime for that.

The question is, how do they maintain it moving forward.

I've worked with construction at a project management level, and supported and maintained systems similar (in many cases nearly identical) to the tech in Pirates. I have a very good idea what goes into it, and what sort of access could be made if effort and thought were put into it.

My point is, I'm not making some pie in the sky request. This can be done.

Would every effect stay 100% forever without a 2 or so week annual drain for canal and water systems maintenance, and then smaller 1 - 3 day shutdowns littered throughout the year? Probably not, but it would be a lot better than a half year refurb that they let rot for another 3 - 4 years before they rinse and repeat. This isn't the only ride Disney does this with. This is a pattern. So, I don't see why that wouldn't be feasible at all and maintain better overall show quality.

It's not that there isn't a way, it's that there is no will.