Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[fngoofy]

So where do you think the project will be in 4 weeks time?

 

[bakntime]

So where do you think the project will be in 4 weeks time?

Done. Just a guess. It's been speculated that it will be done by Night(s) of Joy or the first Mickey's Holloween Party (September 15), but I don't think anyone knows for sure. It doesn't look like there's a whole lot left.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So where do you think the project will be in 4 weeks time?

In the hub at Magic Kingdom. Might be finished or it might be done, but, it will still be in the same place.

 

[COProgressFan]

Yeah, it looks like a city park. Which is great, but you might as well cancel all fireworks, castle shows, etc. Parades would even be impacted.

Why? Seriously. They ran fireworks, parades, and castle shows for DECADES with large trees in and around the hub. Just out of curiosity, did you ever visit the MK pre-2004 when the big hub trees were removed?

There are literally hundreds of pages of threads discussing how we got to this point. The bottom line is that the trees and landscaping do not prevent any of these events from happening.

Something needed to be done to the hub. But there were other ways to achieve what they wanted to do without the removal of trees.

 

[bakntime]

Why? Seriously. They ran fireworks, parades, and castle shows for DECADES with large trees in and around the hub.

Yes, and the trees blocked out hundreds of people from seeing those fireworks and castle shows. I once heard a kid on his dad's shoulders whine through an entire fireworks that he couldn't see anything because the tree was in the way.

The Magic Kingdom is experiencing crazy attendance numbers, and these people stuff the hub to watch the fireworks. If there were lots of giant shade trees, where would all these people stand to get a good view? Then, when the fireworks start and the trees are blocking their view worse than they expected, they all scramble and shove everyone else to try and find a clearer view. It was a nightmare for CMs and guests.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Yeah, it looks like a city park. Which is great, but you might as well cancel all fireworks, castle shows, etc. Parades would even be impacted.

Whenever people post this argument, it is extremely hard to imagine them having had ANY experience with WDW prior to the 2000's. Magic Kingdom's castle hub had trees like those throughout the majority of its life, up until they cut them down a decade or so ago (I forget when exactly). And throughout that life the park always had parades, fireworks and stage shows. It's an absurd argument to say they "may as well cancel" them all if there was a handful of additional trees when they never had to prior.

In the early-mid 90's when the trees had become extremely mature, I never had any issues finding a place to view the parade even in tree-heavy areas (Spectromagic also had a lot of larger floats than MSEP). The only obstructions to visibility have always been people, something that definitely hasn't improved regardless of how open the area is (it's arguably worse as guest behavior deteriorates as well as the inability/unwillingness on the cast for knowing how to deal with it). The fireworks are shot far away behind the park and aren't visible until they clear the spires. It isn't difficult to find a good spot to view them. The trees were never a threat to fireworks visibility, they never cleared the castle spires and so also they also never threatened my view of the fireworks. One of my favorite places to watch them is Frontierland where there are still plenty of mature trees. The castle stage shows are meant to be seen up close, so the trees again were never a factor for visibility (and farther down Main Street the show isn't easy to see regardless of visibility). I don't find the visibility any easier now than before the trees were removed. And they don't gather a huge crowd anyways like fireworks or parades.

The only element that the trees would block outright is the castle projection show (which didn't even exist until a few years ago, long after the trees were already lost). And while not a bad little distraction in of itself, it is still in essence a short movie clip presentation (albeit with some creative use of the castle surface) that doesn't even remotely compensate for the loss of all the gorgeous trees (also useful for temperature control).

Meanwhile there's generally at least 10-13 hours of additional park operation. The 10 minute distraction encompasses at best 1-1.5% of that day. That leaves a substantially uglier, hotter and overall less pleasant area for the remaining 98-99%+ of the operating hours. I'd be completely fine with the projection show leaving in favor of the original tree cover. Fireworks, parades and castle stage shows were still entirely visible and enjoyable with the trees (and it's high time those all get an upgrade as well, no one will even care if the projection show leaves if we got an awesome new parade and fireworks show on top of restored trees).

 

[bakntime]

Whenever people post this argument, it is extremely hard to imagine them having had ANY experience with WDW prior to the 2000's. Magic Kingdom's castle hub had trees like those throughout the majority of its life, up until they cut them down a decade or so ago (I forget when exactly). And throughout that life the park always had parades, fireworks and stage shows. It's an absurd argument to say they "may as well cancel" them all if there was a handful of additional trees when they never had to prior.

In the early-mid 90's when the trees had become extremely mature, I never had any issues finding a place to view the parade (Spectromagic also had a lot of larger floats than MSEP). The only obstructions to visibility have always been people, something that definitely hasn't improved (it's arguably worse as guest behavior deteriorates as well as the inability/unwillingness on the cast for knowing how to deal with it). The fireworks are shot far away behind the park and aren't visible until they clear the spires. The trees never threatened to obscure the top of the castle, so they also never threatened my view of the fireworks (in actuality one of my favorite places to watch them is Frontierland where there are still plenty of mature trees). The castle stage shows are meant to be seen up close, so the trees again were never a factor for visibility (and farther down Main Street the show isn't easy to see regardless of visibility). I don't find the visibility any easier now than before the trees were removed.

The only element that the trees would block outright is the castle projection show (which didn't even exist until a few years ago, long after the trees were already lost). And while not a bad little distraction in of itself, it is still in essence a short movie clip presentation (albeit with some creative use of the castle surface) that doesn't even remotely compensate for the loss of all the gorgeous trees (also useful for temperature control).

Meanwhile there's generally at least 10-13 hours of additional park operation. The 10 minute distraction encompasses at best 1-1.5% of that day. That leaves a substantially uglier, hotter and overall less pleasant area for the remaining 98-99%+ of the operating hours. I'd be completely fine with the projection show leaving in favor of the original tree cover. Fireworks, parades and castle stage shows were still entirely visible and enjoyable with the trees (and it's high time those all get an upgrade as well, no one will even care if the projection show leaves if we got an awesome new parade and fireworks show on top of restored trees).

Yeah, I get it, but you and I are smarter than the average MK guest. They will stand under the trees, and then they will complain and shove and push to get out from underneath them when the fireworks aren't in perfect sight. I've seen it happen. If you put trees big enough to provide shade (like in that photoshopped image), you're going to have problems. Watching fireworks from within a forest doesn't work.

 

[Sonconato]

Whenever people post this argument, it is extremely hard to imagine them having had ANY experience with WDW prior to the 2000's. Magic Kingdom's castle hub had trees like those throughout the majority of its life, up until they cut them down a decade or so ago (I forget when exactly). And throughout that life the park always had parades, fireworks and stage shows. It's an absurd argument to say they "may as well cancel" them all if there was a handful of additional trees when they never had to prior.

In the early-mid 90's when the trees had become extremely mature, I never had any issues finding a place to view the parade even in tree-heavy areas (Spectromagic also had a lot of larger floats than MSEP). The only obstructions to visibility have always been people, something that definitely hasn't improved regardless of how open the area is (it's arguably worse as guest behavior deteriorates as well as the inability/unwillingness on the cast for knowing how to deal with it). The fireworks are shot far away behind the park and aren't visible until they clear the spires. It isn't difficult to find a good spot to view them. The trees were never a threat to fireworks visibility, they never cleared the castle spires and so also they also never threatened my view of the fireworks. One of my favorite places to watch them is Frontierland where there are still plenty of mature trees. The castle stage shows are meant to be seen up close, so the trees again were never a factor for visibility (and farther down Main Street the show isn't easy to see regardless of visibility). I don't find the visibility any easier now than before the trees were removed. And they don't gather a huge crowd anyways like fireworks or parades.

The only element that the trees would block outright is the castle projection show (which didn't even exist until a few years ago, long after the trees were already lost). And while not a bad little distraction in of itself, it is still in essence a short movie clip presentation (albeit with some creative use of the castle surface) that doesn't even remotely compensate for the loss of all the gorgeous trees (also useful for temperature control).

Meanwhile there's generally at least 10-13 hours of additional park operation. The 10 minute distraction encompasses at best 1-1.5% of that day. That leaves a substantially uglier, hotter and overall less pleasant area for the remaining 98-99%+ of the operating hours. I'd be completely fine with the projection show leaving in favor of the original tree cover. Fireworks, parades and castle stage shows were still entirely visible and enjoyable with the trees (and it's high time those all get an upgrade as well, no one will even care if the projection show leaves if we got an awesome new parade and fireworks show on top of restored trees).

No one could have said this more perfectly!! You deserve a million "likes"!! There are definitely much better locations to watch the fireworks than standing in the hub or Main Street. I'll refrain from saying where I watch the fireworks from so it doesn't become crowded. And I'm with you on the projection show...I wouldn't shed a tear if it disappeared and the shade was back.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

It's a really overblown argument for those who either forgot what it was like or never experienced it with trees. Even when mature, the trees were never at a large enough quantity to create a substantial amount of blockage for fireworks viewing (and the parade performs at street level so i really don't get that argument). These weren't huge trees, and they didn't even have very dense foliage. Even when standing right around or even under them, it wasn't difficult to get excellent viewing angles for the fireworks. While providing beauty and a nice bit of shade, it's kind of absurd to refer to this as a "forest" (a pleasant park like environment yes, but definitely not something that should ruin the night's entertainment)-

There are infinitely better solutions to managing crowd control issues than continually ripping up all the scenery and shade for night entertainment that only lasts for a tiny percentage of the park's operating period.

 

[ToTBellHop]

So where do you think the project will be in 4 weeks time?

In front of the Castle.

Seriously, though. The trees had to go. It used to be that the park had fireworks that could be seen over the Castle but didn't have to. Now there are a half dozen Castle-centered shows daily that require a direct view of the Castle to be viewed properly, and this will only be more true with the next fireworks spectacular. If you can't see the Castle, you miss half the show. I think they've done a beautiful job here of recreating a park-like setting outside of the Partners area...except for the darn light poles. What an unfortunate oversight for an otherwise well-thought-out, well-funded project.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

It's a really overblown argument for those who either forgot what it was like or never experienced it with trees. Even when mature, the trees were never at a large enough quantity to create an overwhelming amount of blockage, they weren't even that dense either. Even when standing right around or even under them, it wasn't difficult to get excellent viewing angles for the fireworks. While providing beauty and a nice bit of shade, it's kind of absurd to refer to this as a "forest" (a pleasant park like environment yes, but definitely not something that should ruin the night's entertainment)-

There are infinitely better solutions to crowd control than continually ripping up all the scenery and shade for night entertainment that only lasts for a tiny percentage of the park's operating period.

Look at all those benches too, built into the planter walls.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Look at all those benches too, built into the planter walls.

Yes, but facing away from The Castle. No one wants that view in 2015. There are plenty of new planter benches that have been added in the park in the last three years.

 

[Sonconato]

It's a really overblown argument for those who either forgot what it was like or never experienced it with trees. Even when mature, the trees were never at a large enough quantity to create a substantial amount of blockage for fireworks viewing (and the parade performs at street level so i really don't get that argument). These weren't huge trees, and they didn't even have very dense foliage. Even when standing right around or even under them, it wasn't difficult to get excellent viewing angles for the fireworks. While providing beauty and a nice bit of shade, it's kind of absurd to refer to this as a "forest" (a pleasant park like environment yes, but definitely not something that should ruin the night's entertainment)-

There are infinitely better solutions to managing crowd control issues than continually ripping up all the scenery and shade for night entertainment that only lasts for a tiny percentage of the park's operating period.

Wow! It makes me so sad to see this picture because what it has become! Again...you're 120% correct! One way to manage the crowd is to pay some attention to the other parks to disperse everybody throughout all parks and not cram them in here like a clown car. I know they're trying but I think they have a long way to go, especially since things have been let go for so long.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Yes, but facing away from The Castle. No one wants that view in 2015. There are plenty of new planter benches that have been added in the park in the last three years.

Yes, I get that. There has been plenty added around MK in Fantasyland alone. Just making the comment that there are benches in the hub more-so back then. People on here complain there are not as many benches in the parks these days. ie the hub.

 

[bakntime]

It's a really overblown argument for those who either forgot what it was like or never experienced it with trees. Even when mature, the trees were never at a large enough quantity to create a substantial amount of blockage for fireworks viewing (and the parade performs at street level so i really don't get that argument). These weren't huge trees, and they didn't even have very dense foliage. Even when standing right around or even under them, it wasn't difficult to get excellent viewing angles for the fireworks. While providing beauty and a nice bit of shade, it's kind of absurd to refer to this as a "forest" (a pleasant park like environment yes, but definitely not something that should ruin the night's entertainment)-

There are infinitely better solutions to managing crowd control issues than continually ripping up all the scenery and shade for night entertainment that only lasts for a tiny percentage of the park's operating period.

Logically and spiritually, I agree. I loved the hub looking like that, and I would have no problem managing that layout if I'm interested in watching the fireworks. But people have become obsessed with seeing the fireworks. It's the "big thing" to do. If it weren't, then people wouldn't be grabbing their spots hours before the fireworks. And that hub pictured caused headaches for Disney. That's why they removed the trees. They didn't think it was nicer that way. It wasn't to save money. It was the thousands of people who were already crowded into the hub spokes and down Main Street to get a decent view that sort of forced their hands into this situation. I have no doubt that it was cause a lot of guest angst and complaints that getting a good spot for the fireworks was too much of a chore.

 

[COProgressFan]

Whenever people post this argument, it is extremely hard to imagine them having had ANY experience with WDW prior to the 2000's. Magic Kingdom's castle hub had trees like those throughout the majority of its life, up until they cut them down a decade or so ago (I forget when exactly). And throughout that life the park always had parades, fireworks and stage shows. It's an absurd argument to say they "may as well cancel" them all if there was a handful of additional trees when they never had to prior.

In the early-mid 90's when the trees had become extremely mature, I never had any issues finding a place to view the parade even in tree-heavy areas (Spectromagic also had a lot of larger floats than MSEP). The only obstructions to visibility have always been people, something that definitely hasn't improved regardless of how open the area is (it's arguably worse as guest behavior deteriorates as well as the inability/unwillingness on the cast for knowing how to deal with it). The fireworks are shot far away behind the park and aren't visible until they clear the spires. It isn't difficult to find a good spot to view them. The trees were never a threat to fireworks visibility, they never cleared the castle spires and so also they also never threatened my view of the fireworks. One of my favorite places to watch them is Frontierland where there are still plenty of mature trees. The castle stage shows are meant to be seen up close, so the trees again were never a factor for visibility (and farther down Main Street the show isn't easy to see regardless of visibility). I don't find the visibility any easier now than before the trees were removed. And they don't gather a huge crowd anyways like fireworks or parades.

The only element that the trees would block outright is the castle projection show (which didn't even exist until a few years ago, long after the trees were already lost). And while not a bad little distraction in of itself, it is still in essence a short movie clip presentation (albeit with some creative use of the castle surface) that doesn't even remotely compensate for the loss of all the gorgeous trees (also useful for temperature control).

Meanwhile there's generally at least 10-13 hours of additional park operation. The 10 minute distraction encompasses at best 1-1.5% of that day. That leaves a substantially uglier, hotter and overall less pleasant area for the remaining 98-99%+ of the operating hours. I'd be completely fine with the projection show leaving in favor of the original tree cover. Fireworks, parades and castle stage shows were still entirely visible and enjoyable with the trees (and it's high time those all get an upgrade as well, no one will even care if the projection show leaves if we got an awesome new parade and fireworks show on top of restored trees).

Wow, thanks for posting this. Completely agree. (and you saved me the trouble of having to write out a similar post!)

 

[dstrawn9889]

They wouldn't have put them in this way in the first place if they were concerned about show.

I don't get it. They have many other retractable lighting grids all over MK and the entire property (eg. Epcot World Showcase).

Why wouldn't they attempt to hide these poles that are in the busiest location, in the busiest theme park in the world, directly in front of the most iconic focal point for the entire company? Mind boggling.

because these are not for the shows, this is walkway lighting for the other 99% of the time(other than show times) you can see that when you look at them, they cans are pointed towards the walkways, not the castle. so not feasible to have them retract for 30 minutes and then re-extend for the rest of the night. also safety, if it rains and darkens at 11:00 they just switch 'em on

 

[Horizons '83]

It's a really overblown argument for those who either forgot what it was like or never experienced it with trees. Even when mature, the trees were never at a large enough quantity to create a substantial amount of blockage for fireworks viewing (and the parade performs at street level so i really don't get that argument). These weren't huge trees, and they didn't even have very dense foliage. Even when standing right around or even under them, it wasn't difficult to get excellent viewing angles for the fireworks. While providing beauty and a nice bit of shade, it's kind of absurd to refer to this as a "forest" (a pleasant park like environment yes, but definitely not something that should ruin the night's entertainment)-

There are infinitely better solutions to managing crowd control issues than continually ripping up all the scenery and shade for night entertainment that only lasts for a tiny percentage of the park's operating period.

While I am nostlgic for the good ole days with this view, I completely understand why the hub needed to be revamped.

 

[note2001]

Gosh darn it! My interwebs connections have gone kaploie again.

I'm pretty sure I've read this exact discussion on this thread before... same image too, but it's all showing up as the most current postings. That couldn't possibly be right.
<kicking my computer>

 

[Brad Bishop]

Whenever people post this argument, it is extremely hard to imagine them having had ANY experience with WDW prior to the 2000's. Magic Kingdom's castle hub had trees like those throughout the majority of its life, up until they cut them down a decade or so ago (I forget when exactly). And throughout that life the park always had parades, fireworks and stage shows. It's an absurd argument to say they "may as well cancel" them all if there was a handful of additional trees when they never had to prior.

In the early-mid 90's when the trees had become extremely mature, I never had any issues finding a place to view the parade even in tree-heavy areas (Spectromagic also had a lot of larger floats than MSEP). The only obstructions to visibility have always been people, something that definitely hasn't improved regardless of how open the area is (it's arguably worse as guest behavior deteriorates as well as the inability/unwillingness on the cast for knowing how to deal with it). The fireworks are shot far away behind the park and aren't visible until they clear the spires. It isn't difficult to find a good spot to view them. The trees were never a threat to fireworks visibility, they never cleared the castle spires and so also they also never threatened my view of the fireworks. One of my favorite places to watch them is Frontierland where there are still plenty of mature trees. The castle stage shows are meant to be seen up close, so the trees again were never a factor for visibility (and farther down Main Street the show isn't easy to see regardless of visibility). I don't find the visibility any easier now than before the trees were removed. And they don't gather a huge crowd anyways like fireworks or parades.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the hub is a crappy spot to watch fireworks. They end up appearing behind the castle instead of just over it. Way back when the hub was more park like, people used Main Street to watch the fireworks. Clear viewing all the way down the street the the odd exception of a kid on some parent's shoulders.