Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

Sonconato

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
sedati said:
To those who favor a more lush hub I would like to know if I'm the only one then who encountered guests in the past who missed out on whole lands of the park because they didn't see them from the hub (which I would call hub failure, as the true point of the hub is to lay out all the lands to explore.) More than once we ran into guests back in the olden times who thought all of the Magic Kingdom was pretty much just Fantasyland or Tomorrowland. And one time I did meet someone at the now retired Walt Disney Story on Main St who was wondering if Main St was all there was. He'd gone to the end, saw the Castle and turned around.
Certainly maps are always helpful, and some people are beyond help, but I do wonder if a lot of what people see as a "dumbing down," is really just course correcting a park that is really meant to be read and understood by all the travelers of the world and needs to accomplish as much visually as possible.
Just some thoughts, please no tree rage.
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I heard somebody say that they thought all of Epcot was in Spaceship Earth while standing there looking at it and there are no trees! With that said, I agree with you...many are simply beyond help.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I'm not going to continue a conversation if you aren't going to even try to see the difference between today's audience and those of years ago that you are so fond of. They didn't have projection shows back in those years either. The reason is simple, people wanted to be able to see the shows clearly and Disney has responded at that same time they expanded the area to have it be more safe and easier to navigate. What is so difficult to believe about that. WDW is a show from beginning to end. It is not a private kingdom that has to be accurate to the last detail. It is a stage and that is the current show scene setting. Enjoy the show!
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Nothing dictates that there must be a projection show only on Cinderella Castle or that there must be any at all (the technology existing is not a reason). Concentrating the focus of the show in one small area is a design choice, not a design constraint. Fireworks can go higher, projections can go on more and larger surfaces; both of which would result in more people better seeing the show. The projection shows also came years after the removal of the trees, so their disappearance did not have anything to do with guest demand to see a projection show.

Goofyernmost said:
I honestly don't expect you to believe anything that goes against your preconceived notions of what you like as opposed to the reality of a Castle like designed for a Disney park. What is the moat for? A pleasant place to paddle a canoe around the building in. Castles originally were designed as defensive buildings to protect the occupants and royalty that lived in them. That is history. What the motivation for building Neuschwanstein was is totally irrelevant and had nothing to do with trees or any other thing other then the purpose of a castle. Army's were not using them as defense, they were a defense against enemy army's to protect the people living in them.
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You said "castles of that era" and castles of the 1880s have nothing to do with defense or protecting their inhabitants. Artillery had long since rendered such structures useless. Their purpose was fantasy and romance.
 
sedati

sedati

Well-Known Member
Sonconato said:
I heard somebody say that they thought all of Epcot was in Spaceship Earth while standing there looking at it and there are no trees! With that said, I agree with you...many are simply beyond help.
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My Grandparents went to Epcot Center the year it opened. They thought Spaceship Earth was just for show and had no idea it had a ride inside of it. They saw the people lined up beneath it, but thought they were just trying to get into the park and hadn't noticed the paths to either side.
 
Sonconato

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
sedati said:
My Grandparents went to Epcot Center the year it opened. They thought Spaceship Earth was just for show and had no idea it had a ride inside of it. They saw the people lined up beneath it, but thought they were just trying to get into the park and hadn't noticed the paths to either side.
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That actually makes more sense considering the Hat at HS didn't have anything in it and in many ways, nor does the Tree of Life at AK.
 
Sonconato

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Nothing dictates that there must be a projection show only on Cinderella Castle or that there must be any at all (the technology existing is not a reason). Concentrating the focus of the show in one small area is a design choice, not a design constraint. Fireworks can go higher, projections can go on more and larger surfaces; both of which would result in more people better seeing the show. The projection shows also came years after the removal of the trees, so their disappearance did not have anything to do with guest demand to see a projection show.
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I'm sure everybody on this forum has seen this but I thought this was much more appropriate than the Castle. I originally thought they were trying both to see which was best but then Epcot's show went away. Spaceship Earth has a much better surface for a projection and I would imagine a great many more people can watch the show than that in the MK and with no modifications to the park.
 
B

bakntime

Well-Known Member
Sonconato said:
The inspiration for Cinderella's Castle was Neuschwanstein Castle which doesn't need or have a show projected on it for people to like it. There seems to be something that is in this photo that is now missing at the Magic Kingdom hub. Hmmmm, what could that be?View attachment 108269
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There's also something that's missing from that photo that's present at the Magic Kingdom: Paying guests (thousands of them), and fireworks shows and projections that said guests are desperate to watch.
 
Sonconato

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
bakntime said:
There's also something that's missing from that photo that's present at the Magic Kingdom: Paying guests (thousands of them), and fireworks shows and projections that said guests are desperate to watch.
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This is true, however, those thousands of people are only in the hub for about an hour or so just before those two events, which are at "night" and only last around 30 minutes, meanwhile, during the day, in the middle of summer, you would be hard pressed to count 100. We were there a couple of weekends ago at about 3:00 pm when it was near 100 degrees out and nobody was around. Because there were so few people, they had the old cars out on Main Street in which we were able to ride because we were the only ones in the hub. It was awesome! But we paid for it in sweat! At night, it cools down enough, it's tolerable, then they come pouring in. Also, the fact that AK is currently a daytime park, HS has become a half day park and I'm not sure about Epcot but many are arriving from the Epcot monorail, Guests come pouring in the late afternoon which also contributes to the congestion in that area. This is by observation because my family and I are there every weekend and we watch it happen.
 
Sonconato

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
Just got back from a half day at MK, it was not too crowded, the sun was shining and it really wasn't that hot. The stage show was going on in front of the Castle so I thought I would wander over to see the hub crowd and how the guests were enjoying the new hub. I guess I have to say I was foolish thinking trees for the benefit of shade was necessary when all that is needed is to whip out your umbrella and presto, instant shade. I didn't realize that all the people behind these umbrellas really didn't care that their view was being blocked. This photo is around the planter in the dead center of the hub and there are three umbrellas visible. Problem solved.
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Goofnut1980

Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
Sonconato said:
Just got back from a half day at MK, it was not too crowded, the sun was shining and it really wasn't that hot. The stage show was going on in front of the Castle so I thought I would wander over to see the hub crowd and how the guests were enjoying the new hub. I guess I have to say I was foolish thinking trees for the benefit of shade was necessary when all that is needed is to whip our your umbrella and presto, instant shade. I didn't realize that all the people behind these umbrellas really didn't care that their view was being blocked. This photo is around the planter in the dead center of the hub and there are three umbrellas visible. Problem solved.
View attachment 108431 View attachment 108431
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I spy with my little eye... something that is TOTALLY IN THE WAY!!!! lol
 
Jon81uk

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Nothing dictates that there must be a projection show only on Cinderella Castle or that there must be any at all (the technology existing is not a reason). Concentrating the focus of the show in one small area is a design choice, not a design constraint. Fireworks can go higher, projections can go on more and larger surfaces; both of which would result in more people better seeing the show..
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From what I've read this is what they're done at Disneyland California, they protect onto the castle, Main Street and Its a Small World. But then DL's castle is shorter so isn't as suited to projections anyway!
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Sonconato said:
Just got back from a half day at MK, it was not too crowded, the sun was shining and it really wasn't that hot. The stage show was going on in front of the Castle so I thought I would wander over to see the hub crowd and how the guests were enjoying the new hub. I guess I have to say I was foolish thinking trees for the benefit of shade was necessary when all that is needed is to whip our your umbrella and presto, instant shade. I didn't realize that all the people behind these umbrellas really didn't care that their view was being blocked. This photo is around the planter in the dead center of the hub and there are three umbrellas visible. Problem solved.
View attachment 108431 View attachment 108431
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Oh the irony. My naughty part now hopes (but it hopes for a lot of things, most starting with a J!) that the hub will become parasol central. The crowds seeking shade individually for want of trees, thereby blocking the view of the shows. Thus making the entire hub work self defeating.
 
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sedati

sedati

Well-Known Member
These missing trees are reaching truly mythic status. I must have visited a different Magic Kingdom in the past as I always remember baking in the sun in the hub. Yes, the trees helped, but they only offered patches of shade (better or worse depending on time of day.) They hardly blanketed the several acres of the hub in cooling shade. Many of those who thought ahead and picked a cool spot well in advance to wait for the parade or show were often upset to find the sun's progress shifting that shady spot away by the time the parade began.
 
Clamman73

Clamman73

Well-Known Member
Sonconato said:
Just got back from a half day at MK, it was not too crowded, the sun was shining and it really wasn't that hot. The stage show was going on in front of the Castle so I thought I would wander over to see the hub crowd and how the guests were enjoying the new hub. I guess I have to say I was foolish thinking trees for the benefit of shade was necessary when all that is needed is to whip our your umbrella and presto, instant shade. I didn't realize that all the people behind these umbrellas really didn't care that their view was being blocked. This photo is around the planter in the dead center of the hub and there are three umbrellas visible. Problem solved.
View attachment 108431 View attachment 108431
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Eye poke hazard...ban
umbrella2 .jpeg
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
sedati said:
These missing trees are reaching truly mythic status. I must have visited a different Magic Kingdom in the past as I always remember baking in the sun in the hub. Yes, the trees helped, but they only offered patches of shade (better or worse depending on time of day.) They hardly blanketed the several acres of the hub in cooling shade. Many of those who thought ahead and picked a cool spot well in advance to wait for the parade or show were often upset to find the sun's progress shifting that shady spot away by the time the parade began.
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The cooling provided by trees is not limited to just shade. They also help to reduce the urban heat island effect.
 

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