mlayton144
Well-Known Member
I hear you , but i think it’s all about catering to a younger generation of fans.
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Magic Kingdom to lose ROA, Riverboat, and TSI for Cars Land
- Thread starter PiratesMansion
- Start date
I hear you , but i think it’s all about catering to a younger generation of fans.
GigglesMcSnort
Active Member
Give it a few years, and those younger fans will be posting on this forum as adults, complaining about their cherished Cars attraction being replaced by something else.
mlayton144
Well-Known Member
It indeed is a business. But what made the Disney parks popular in the first place was a unique balance of art, business and consumer value. I think the balance is currently way off. The other problem for me is the lack of new original ideas and stories at the parks, which just—for me—is resulting in coating the overall park experience in a layer of… “ICK”. The parks were not meant to be all current IP everywhere all the time. They need to breathe. They need beautiful spots without crowds. They need original stories that result in new classics like Big Thunder and Pirates and Mansion and Tower of Terror.
I believe a lot of the decisions being made today by the company might seem wise for short-term increases, but I think In the long run, they could be irreversibly damaging and eradicating the multi-generational appeal and lasting emotional resonance of their product. I sometimes wonder if the current leadership really has a grasp on what sets the Disney Parks apart from others— besides ownership of IPs.
Eh, maybe I’m wrong. But one of the original DL Imagineers (I *think* it was John Hench) said Disneyland was like a salad, and all of its diverse ingredients were necessary to give it its unique personality. To me, MK is turning into a bowl of Froot Loops with Strawberry Quick poured on top. With sprinkles. Sure, I’d try it once. Just once.
Well stated , but art is in the eye of the beholder, and for the record I want DLR to keep ROA for that exact reason and because Walt had his hands directly on it - MKs Riverboat just doesn’t compare IMO. If they screw this up at MK I will agree with you. There is an opportunity to make this a beautiful add , and Josh knows it given how this was communicatedIt indeed is a business. But what made the Disney parks popular in the first place was a unique balance of art, business and consumer value. I think the balance is currently way off. The other problem for me is the lack of new original ideas and stories at the parks, which just—for me—is resulting in coating the overall park experience in a layer of… “ICK”. The parks were not meant to be all current IP everywhere all the time. They need to breathe. They need beautiful spots without crowds. They need original stories that result in new classics like Big Thunder and Pirates and Mansion and Tower of Terror.
I believe a lot of the decisions being made today by the company might seem wise for short-term increases, but I think In the long run, they could be irreversibly damaging and eradicating the multi-generational appeal and lasting emotional resonance of their product. I sometimes wonder if the current leadership really has a grasp on what sets the Disney Parks apart from others— besides ownership of IPs.
Eh, maybe I’m wrong. But one of the original DL Imagineers (I *think* it was John Hench) said Disneyland was like a salad, and all of its diverse ingredients were necessary to give it its unique personality. To me, MK is turning into a bowl of Froot Loops with Strawberry Quick poured on top. With sprinkles. Sure, I’d try it once. Just once.
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
As someone who works for a major Fortune 50 it’s not just Disney. The saying around the office often goes “The golden parachute doesn’t care if the plane is running out of fuel”. It’s always about “juicing” the next quarter.
Ne'er-Do-Well Cad
Well-Known Member
I’m skeptical. We’re all here because Disney used to be an exceptional company, with a unique vision and high standards. Over time, it’s become just like every other corporation. I don’t see Disney doing anything Universal isn’t also doing. This won’t hurt them overnight, but years from now I predict there will be far fewer adults with deep, almost irrational affection and loyalty toward the Disney brand.
Steamboat71
Member
Are there any plans to reutilize the riverboat?
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
the only thing Disney has opened recently that brought people to them was Star Wars. And they didn’t really deliver on that.
Who is making a trip to Orlando to experience any singular attraction or experience at Disney?
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
If anyone has any common sense it will get parked near Tianas.
mlayton144
Well-Known Member
It’s hard to draw that conclusion at least for the reasons you state , how much has the world changed over the last generation? You don’t even need to leave your house to get loads of entertainment. How many young people are smelling the roses around ROA vs looking at their phone? Who exactly was Disney’s competition over the past 60 + years ?
mlayton144
Well-Known Member
I heard a rumor with the new smaller cars family attraction it will be the final death blow to TS, we will see , whatever replaces it could be either fantasyland or Tomorrowland material given its location - hopefully not a new DVC preview center
DrAlice
Well-Known Member
Bruh. Watch your assumptions. You don't know me, nor how much money I spend at Disney. We can disagree on what we value in the parks, but leave the broad characterizations out of your arguments.
I tell my daughter this a lot: "When someone tells you who they are, believe them." Disney has shown that nothing in their parks are sacred to them. The only thing they care about is squeezing as much money from the pockets of their guests as they can. May I remind you that COP and PeopleMover no longer exist on the west coast. Get your rides in now, my friend. They won't be there for ever. And when they go, you can go complain about it on the internet where "kids" will tell you to settle down with your "old people" opinions.
I told my 12 year old about the plan to remove ROA (before voicing my opinion). Her response was "WHAT?! That's stupid! I hope they don't do that to Disneyland."
Again, you can disagree with those of us unhappy with this decision. You clearly value different things in the parks than we do. But please stop telling people to not feel what they feel. And stop with the ageism already. It's silly.
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
I havent been to a Disney park in five years and try not to even see their movies anymore. They have been not only disrespecting the fans but stepping all over Walt Disney's legacy and intent as well.
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
TDL still might get rid of their ROA. It's one of the most heavily looked at sites for future expansion there.
DarkMetroid567
Well-Known Member
Surprised that this warranted its own thread in this forum. Again, DL’s Rivers of America is a treasure and is the heartbeat of Disneyland’s left half.
MK’s Rivers of America is just another swamp.
MK’s Rivers of America is just another swamp.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Why do you feel that way? I’ve been trying to understand if I’m missing something. I’ve never been to MK but it seems to accomplish the same purpose as DLs.
worm_alphabet
New Member
Pure slop. The fans who enjoy making Instagram Reels for new Lilo and Stitch themed cupcakes will love this.
Steamboat71
Member
Younger generations may not directly value pleasant atmosphere and placemaking, but they may come to appreciate those things in time and we assume that, as is natural for anyone over time, they may come to value different things as they gain more life experience.
I used to love going to Six Flags and running from coaster to coaster, not giving a rats about anything that wasn't giving me a thrill. There are plenty of teens who still do that, and good for them, but now that I'm "older" (30s), I appreciate atmosphere, shade, and an opportunity to slow down once in awhile; to get away from everyone else for a bit; to appreciate something slower. Parks that put in an effort to ensure continuity of theme, quality of atmosphere, etc. are much more valued by me than a place that is nothing but what the young people apparently want. One of the key tenants that made Disney parks successful was that it was a collection of experiences that everyone could do together. This removes three things that anyone of any age, height, etc. could do together for two things that will almost certainly have some kind of height requirement, even if those height requirements are "low for the industry." That's not progress.
Also, Water plays a vital role in bringing life to a theme park; you know which Disney park has no water whatsoever? The studios park in Paris, i.e. the park no one likes. You know what park is nothing but this IP stuff everywhere that the younger people purportedly want? The studio park in Paris, i.e. the park no one likes. There just might be some correlation there.
I disagree. I'd say the character of the river is quieter, calmer, and it still has the longer route that many here claim to miss from the original Disneyland river. The critters and scenes back there aren't super advanced, but unlike Disneyland, I don't believe there are any figures that are simply static; all show some kind of movement, limited though it may be.
The riverboat itself is less stately looking than Mark Twain, it is true, but it is the park's second watercraft; the original, which was basically identical to the Mark, was accidentally destroyed early in drydock, soon into the park's history. Parts of the destroyed watercraft were salvaged and used to construct the Mark Twain at Tokyo Disneyland. Credit, too, to Walt Disney World for attempting to make the loading of the boat more streamlined and efficient (at WDW, rather than loading and unloading on the bottom level of the boat, you load on the middle level and unload on the bottom level) and cleverly using its own dock to shield the boat from Liberty Square, where it would not have been thematically appropriate, only for the boat to become visible in Frontierland, where it fit thematically. A level of cleverness never seen since when it came to attractions like this.
While minds may vary on the river and boat, I don't think there's any argument that WDW has the largest and most elaborate TSI ever built, the only version with two islands, still with tourable fort. I know this is easily dismissed because so few people who post here even regularly head to TSI in California, let alone in Florida, but it really is much better, and isn't burdened by a questionable, forced POTC overlay. Magic Kingdom's TSI is the sort of thing that reminds you that at one time the company really did want to make Magic Kingdom its own distinct place, a place that could not only meet but exceed Disneyland. A place that moved themed design forward and demonstrated the increasing sophistication of the very people who put Disneyland together, before the park got flanderized as 'the bigger, dumber Disneyland for stupid people', and steps were taken to make it so.
I also think it does a great disservice to Walt Disney World that whole swaths of it are dismissed out of hand simply because Disneyland did it first, or did/does it better. It is precisely this mentality that allows and justifies decisions like this. If Disney constantly hears from enough loud fanbois that Magic Kingdom sucks mainly because it's not Disneyland, than why should they preserve any of these things that will never be celebrated but are integral to the place working successfully as a themed environment? The loudest people on the internet, who had already decided MK had no chance to outdo Disneyland on any level ever, just said it all sucked anyway and therefore there couldn't be anything of value there, right? Meanwhile, the people who actually enjoy the park on its own terms and liked or appreciated the different nuances of the original MK get disregarded and talked down to for having the audacity to like something done a little differently. It's the same thing over and over again, and it's tiring.