Magic Kingdom set to break attendance records next week? 7am to 3am operating hours!

[WDW1974]

Wow, you've totally missed the point. The profits from P&R include those royalties/monies from TDL, HKDL and the other parks.

What I meant was the other TWDC divisions. ESPN. ABC. WDP. Consumer products and the other countless arms of TWDC. Why aren't they held to the same profit standards that WDW & Park & Resorts is held to? Why does WDW have to give up all the money they make back to the parent company rather than a (larger) percentage kept in Florida?

I don't really disagree with where you are going here ... but I will say I don't know exactly how much money is 'kept' in Burbank and re-allocated from any division whether its Consumer Products, ESPN or Animation ...

Burbank was for many years using WDW as an ATM, no doubt about it. But I can't say they aren't taking money from ESPN and not putting it back either (considering they have been cutting staff and budgets there too, one might say another cash cow is being bled for what is perceived a as 'the greater good' which in reality is just Iger, Staggs and Co's bottom line).

~Pixie Dust? No, I am pretty sure Seth McFarlane is on something stronger!~

 

[SirGoofy]

Write letters to Roy Disney and John Lassiter. Prove your point and try and get the company to change.

Man, I had never thought to go to Lasseter.

Looks like I have something to do on top of my homework tomorrow night.

 

[WDW1974]

I tried to be as thorough with one post as possible. Of course there are many posts that deal with each individual attraction in more detail.

I still have yet to understand why so many cling to mediocrity as if it were there last breath. Why not hold Disney, and other companies for that matter, to higher standards? Why not do that so they, as well as us, can enjoy the product even more as a result?

Your post was very thorough and articulate. You explained very quantifiable reasons why the product WDW has been pushing since the mid-90s is far less magical, much more ordinary, cheap and WalMart.

But if you're looking for lots of 'atta boy whylightbulb ... you 'splained why those beancounting weasel execs are destroying the Disney legacy' well ... how do I put it? ... You're on the wrong Disney fan site. LaughingPlace is better at being critcal (even with one of its owners being a major consultant/employee of TWDC) as is Micechat.

Even with many intelligent posters here, there is a strong undercurrent that Disney can do no wrong in Orlando (or in general). You're opting to do battle with someone whose only responses are simple opinions that he finds WDW as magical as ever, which is fine for him. But it's also a waste of your time.

As to why hold Disney to higher standards, or even the novel idea of its own lofty ones, that's gonna be a tough sell.

You know what it's like on the inside of WDI and you know what Disney is capable of and continues to do at its other resorts as well as what other companies are capable of.

That doesn't mesh well with people who simply love WDW and don't want to hear anything contrary. WDW is viewed by some people like religion or politics (don't worry, just a statement... relax!) and that means things like reason, common sense and opposing views are taken like heresay.

I will continue to hold Disney to the standards of excellence it conditioned me to expect in two decades of visiting its parks (1974-1994) before I started noticing 'slippage' during the never-ending, little substance 25th Anniversary Marketing Event. If it pi$$es off people here, then I'm OK with that.

~It's not my standards, it's Disney's!~

 

[PhotoDave219]

The key here is getting your points through to the bean-counters that now control the company. You have to PROVE to them that they will get a bigger return on investment by doing it your way.

I think just about everyone who reads these forums agrees that Disney could do a better job of things. But after my stint there at the mousehouse, I feel Disney deserves a better class of guests at times.

 

[SirGoofy]

But after my stint there at the mousehouse, I feel Disney deserves a better class of guests at times.

I completely agree.

 

[alecshawn]

NO, you're not worth it because you say everything is great, and there is absolutely nothing wrong. We've been over this, I love WDW. But to say there is absolutely nothing wrong is pulling the wool over your eyes.

I have plenty of good things to say. See my response to your other post



1)I'll give you this one. In all honesty HM was the best thing they've done since ToT. They took a classic and made it better, rather than taking a classic and ruining it like Tiki Room and Imagination. And if you can defend

2)Space Mountain. A refurb 6 years too late, and half as big as it should be. But I guess it's good enough since it's happening, right? I'm not counting DL in this argument. DL gets all the love it needs, because it has majority repeat visitors. Visitors who can and do realize when rides are in poor shape.

WDW can get away with their lax touch ups because they don't have majority repeat visitors.

3)Pirates received a great cosmetic makeover, but the ride is in terrible shape and breaks down almost once a day. That sounds like a really great refurb doesn't it?

4)SSE's very soul was ripped out. Gone is the inspiring ride about where we can go in the future, and instead we're left with a flash cartoon mixed with "Face in the Hole."

5)UoE...ummm...are you talking about the change to Ellen's Energy Adventure? Because that happened almost 13 years ago.:shrug:

No, Uof energy just reopened after a refurb. No changes than im aware, just a refurb. You dont have to change something to improve it.
As for SSE, i consider it to be one of Disneys classics. The ending to some, is bad, to others is good. Im indifferent. The ride itself, tells a wonderful story.
I place it close to the top of must do attractions.
As for Pirates, i love it. I have also, not experienced any breakdowns, not to say they dont happen, it just hasnt happened to us.
Also, WDW does get HUGE amounts of repeat visitors. D.L. never has been a "vacation" destination, per say. It is most certainly a "west coast" disney "2 day trip" thing. It does thrive on "locals" Southern Californians (i was one of those once) ;-)
But, i DO love it there. I know of folks that HATE the new Space at D.L. I also know folks that loved toads ride....I rode it a D.L. and honestly, dont see why. I think Philharmagic is waay better.
different strokes for different folks.

 

[jakeman]

I just don't believe it is possible for MK to outdraw TDL and DL annually without some funny counting going on. And with park-hopping, hard-ticket events and more CM comps than anywhere ... well, it would seem the possibility for playing with numbers exists.

Again, when you start to pick and choose your facts and believe only what you want, what point is there in discussion? Simply dismissing as false what is out there because it doesn't fit your perceived reality is ridiculous.

You are saying, "I saw pictures of TDR crowded, therefore theme park attendance numbers put out by an independent company may be fabricated to favor one park in the same company over the other, because the select times I have been to WDW it has not been that crowded." That doesn't sound crazy to you?

 

[SirGoofy]

Also, WDW does get HUGE amounts of repeat visitors. D.L. never has been a "vacation" destination, per say. It is most certainly a "west coast" disney "2 day trip" thing.

Did I say WDW didn't get a lot of repeat visitors? No. I said the majority of WDW guests are new guests each year.

But, i DO love it there. I know of folks that HATE the new Space at D.L. I also know folks that loved toads ride....I rode it a D.L. and honestly, dont see why. I think Philharmagic is waay better.
different strokes for different folks.

I love Phillharmagic too. Of course Phillharmagic replaced Legend of the Lion King and not Mr. Toad's Wild ride...so yea.

 

[WDW1974]

You'll have to deal with it. In the past 4 years or so that I've been around these forums, there are hundreds if not thousands of posts basically stating the same thing that you're saying.

There's a difference between a 20-year-old kid about the Yeti being dead on EE, to an ex-Imagineer and industry insider explaining the different mindset of building attractions now vs. 15-20 years ago.

And for every one thoughtful post like 'bulb posted there's likely 30 of simple blather about why WDW is more magical than ever.

As long as management at TWDC sees WDW as the main revenue stream for the company, things aren't going to change.

They don't.

Media networks is the No. 1 source of income for TWDC. Last year, they generated over $16 billion in revenue vs. $11 billion for parks and resorts. And while WDW is a huge revenue driver for the company, all the resorts as well as DVC and DCL are part of that. WDW isn't running the company by any stretch. Also, Studios usually are right up there with or above P&R in revenue, but last year was a relatively down year because there was no Pirates tentpole type film and DVD sales fell thru the floor.

WDW is very important to the bottom line, no doubt. But it can (and often is) overstated.

Rehashing the same ol' doggie-stuff about how the company is cutting quality, effects, preshow, yadda-yadda-yadda, is old hat. Instead, do something about it. Work on convincing major investors and Wall Street that they would get a larger return on their investment through a cost-benefit analysis (assuming they don't laugh at you.) Write letters to Roy Disney and John Lassiter. Prove your point and try and get the company to change.

If we did that Dave then things would be awful dull. There are only so many Adventurer's Club threads you can have ... and things are so boring the fanbois are excited because UoE is sporting new paint.

As to writing Roy and John, if they read everything sent to them by fans they'd likely never sleep, eat or breath. Roy also is a figurehead at this point. He has little power. Unless he feels very passionate about something he isn't going near it. John is a better person to write, but I still don't advocate it.

If you really have an issue with the way something is being run then I'd advise contacting the exec(s) in charge of that area/decision directly and cc to a few others ... if they decide to ignore, resend ... and cc to as many folks in media circles who cover Disney as you can.

Don't just complain to a Disney fan board about the same complaints that most of us have about the company. Do something about it.

Some of us are ... or were trying at least.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Opening Day!~

 

[SirGoofy]

Some of us are ... or were trying at least.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Opening Day!~

I'm gonna try my darnedest till I can try anymore that's for sure.

And as a Phillies fan, I can't celebrate what happened tonight.:brick:

 

[alecshawn]

Okay let's deal with one subject at a time. The matter of sheer quantity of show elements is a great place to start. Would you agree that Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Tower of Terror, Horizons, World of Motion, and Great Movie Ride individually all have more show elements than Everest, Test Track, Mission Space, Nemo, and Soarin' individually? Another words, comparing apples to apples for similar type attractions from pre-94 to post-94, Big Thunder has more than Everest, Horizons has more than Nemo, even Star Tours has more than Soarin'.

There is no argument. It's a fact that if you were to look at itemized show elements and expenditures for show, every attraction pre-1994 is bigger in terms of quantity than post-94. Will you admit this?

The thing is, I like TT BETTER than WofM, I REALLY enjoy Mission Space.
Horizons, yes i liked it, but its gone.
The ONLY things about present day Disney i like less than the past is: JITI.
Thats about it.
I dont go to WDW to pick it apart, some must.
Why go on vacation to complain about things?
Why go to "look" for issues you dont like?
We go to have a good time.
We DO EVERY single day we are there.
And, thats ALL that matters. Nothing else, we get our moneys worth and we have great memories.
I also love Vegas, i dont pick it apart either. Live life and ENJOY. Life is too short to nit pick. It gets old.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm gonna try my darnedest till I can try anymore that's for sure.

And as a Phillies fan, I can't celebrate what happened tonight.:brick:

I'll trade Raul Ibenez for Phil Holmes. :lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

The key here is getting your points through to the bean-counters that now control the company. You have to PROVE to them that they will get a bigger return on investment by doing it your way.

That's just the problem, and it isn't one limited to fans. As I know from people on the inside who have tried, it is very tough (if not impossible) to quantify quality into a numerical figure in a Power Point.

Quality is something you can't put a number on. And with number-crunchers now pushing the direction of P&R that is a huge hill to climb.

I think just about everyone who reads these forums agrees that Disney could do a better job of things. But after my stint there at the mousehouse, I feel Disney deserves a better class of guests at times.

Agreed. But I find it more than coincidental that as Disney's own standards and quality started to slip that there was a pronounced increase in ... well, trashy guests.

If you treat your product like Walmart then don't be surprised when WalMart shoppers show up.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Spring Break on FL Beach!~

 

[SirGoofy]

I'll trade Raul Ibenez for Phil Holmes. :lookaroun

I'll trade Brett Meyers for Meg Crofton.

:lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

Again, when you start to pick and choose your facts and believe only what you want, what point is there in discussion? Simply dismissing as false what is out there because it doesn't fit your perceived reality is ridiculous.

Everyone does that. You do that with me as you've proudly announced.

But these numbers aren't facts. Disney doesn't release attendance numbers. That is TWDC policy. So, we're left to rely on numbers that are considered good guesstimates by industry trade pubs.

I don't know if they're close to accurate or not.

You are saying, "I saw pictures of TDR crowded, therefore theme park attendance numbers put out by an independent company may be fabricated to favor one park in the same company over the other, because the select times I have been to WDW it has not been that crowded." That doesn't sound crazy to you?

No, that's what you're saying. What I am saying is that in countless visits to MK since 1974, I've almost never experienced the kinds of crowds that can be seen in TDLFAN's pics -- and that occur on a regular basis at that resort (just read around or ask people who have been if you think I am making this up to fit some agenda).

Again, I'm still waiting for someone to say 'I've been to MK on a March weekday and saw 5-6 attractions with waits of over two hours at the same time ... and 30 minute waits just to buy popcorn (flavored because at TDR, they sell a dozen or more different kinds depending on location).

If I'm wrong I'd just like to see ... and again, I've regularly seen waits in Anaheim that are closer to Tokyo than what I see in O-Town.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? A Magical Monday!~

 

[WDW1974]

I'll trade Raul Ibenez for Phil Holmes. :lookaroun

Hmm ... does Phil pitch or catch?

~Sure, we're talking baseball!~

 

[jt04]

Everyone does that. You do that with me as you've proudly announced.

But these numbers aren't facts. Disney doesn't release attendance numbers. That is TWDC policy. So, we're left to rely on numbers that are considered good guesstimates by industry trade pubs.

I don't know if they're close to accurate or not.



No, that's what you're saying. What I am saying is that in countless visits to MK since 1974, I've almost never experienced the kinds of crowds that can be seen in TDLFAN's pics -- and that occur on a regular basis at that resort (just read around or ask people who have been if you think I am making this up to fit some agenda).

Again, I'm still waiting for someone to say 'I've been to MK on a March weekday and saw 5-6 attractions with waits of over two hours at the same time ... and 30 minute waits just to buy popcorn (flavored because at TDR, they sell a dozen or more different kinds depending on location).

If I'm wrong I'd just like to see ... and again, I've regularly seen waits in Anaheim that are closer to Tokyo than what I see in O-Town.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? A Magical Monday!~

Japan is roughly the size of California with a population around 130 million.

Everything is crowded in Japan.

 

[jakeman]

Everyone does that. You do that with me as you've proudly announced.

But these numbers aren't facts. Disney doesn't release attendance numbers. That is TWDC policy. So, we're left to rely on numbers that are considered good guesstimates by industry trade pubs.

I don't know if they're close to accurate or not.

As I've also stated, you are a nameless face behind a keyboard and do not have any sort of credentials other than your word for me to rely on.

You are ignoring reputable sources and relying on conjecture to make your point.

I'm glad that you have such a high esteem of your own statistically ability that you can declare a company that specializes in that field's numbers wholey inaccurate based on some park visits and a few pictures.

 

[WDW1974]

Japan is roughly the size of California with a population around 130 million.

Everything is crowded in Japan.

What an intelligent, rational explanation.

You solved that mystery. So many people they all have to go to TDR or else they'd fall into the sea.

~JT: The Perfect WDW Guest of the 21st Century!~

 

[SirGoofy]

You solved that mystery. So many people they all have to go to TDR or else they'd fall into the sea.

~JT: The Perfect WDW Guest of the 21st Century!~

:ROFLOL:

I literally laughed out loud.