Magic Kingdom Monorails at Reduced Capacity Due to Beam Damage

[Tom]

Picture this gap, except bigger

Interestingly enough the LV Monorail beam has improved the design dramatically to deal with the extreme temperatures that are present there.

Excellent, thanks for the photos.

The LV design is significantly better. The splice plate on top virtually eliminates the chance of a void under the tires.

This must have been one of the minor modificaitons they made to the WDW beam design, since the LV beams were made using the exact same design. I had the opportunity to visit the plat of desert where they were casting them for the original run.

Looks like a little concrete cutting and they could drill and epoxy some anchors into the top of those splice points and install the plates that LV installed. It could literally be done overnight....especially with the early shutdown of those lines.

 

[WDW1974]

since the hours have changed the monorails have had more time to get the preventive work done on them that is needed every night. If you look at the problems before the time change they were long and frequent... Now they are just simple things that can be fixed in a few mins. To see this in reality look at the way trains are running now and compare them to holiday weeks when they operate of there old time schedule its a huge difference.

I'd rather compare them to how they ran in 1992 ... or the system at TDR myself.

And since you work in rails I'm guessing, do they actually clean the inside of the cars daily (or weekly or at all)?

 

[Gregoryp73]

All I know is I rode this monday, and experienced the 3 mph crawl from what seemed to be 50 feet up. Not a pleasant experience at all...

Also, I found the park to be really busy on Monday. I was not expecting that at all....especially the week before VW. It may have been due to the water parks being shut down, but...I wish I would have just gone on friday like I originally planned.

 

[Tip Top Club]

I'd rather compare them to how they ran in 1992 ... or the system at TDR myself.

And since you work in rails I'm guessing, do they actually clean the inside of the cars daily (or weekly or at all)?

They actually do scrub down the interior of the cars every night (which makes it all the more disgusting because that smell you smell, is probably just the person next to you who didn't shower....

 

[BalooChicago]

Hmmm. Maybe. I guess I'm just pulling things out of thin air since I don't know exactly where/what we're discussing. I mean, I know it's one of the steel toothed expansion joints, but I don't know what it looked like in it's hazardous state.

The LV joint is a huge improvement. I was amazed two trips ago how "near miss" some of the finger joints were. Retrofitting the LV joint is an interesting idea, but depending on the design of the reinforcing of the existing beams it may not be that easy (you need to maintain coverage over the reinforcing, and even if the design is such that there should be coverage after notching in, you'd want to X-Ray the concrete before cutting in).

 

[BalooChicago]

Concrete is better at taking compression loads. Concrete also wears and weathers very well.

Steel is good for lightweight strength that is flexible. It bends without deforming, etc.

Correct (Well until the point where the steel yields). Concrete is good in compression, steel in tension, this is why concrete is reinforced with steel. Steel and concrete also expand and contract due to temperature at nearly the same rate, which is what makes the whole thing possible. The difference in expansion/contraction in materials is why concrete is not reinforced with aluminum. The difference between concrete and aluminum is so great that contractors need to be careful to not embed aluminum conduit in concrete slabs or they can literally "pop".

 

[Rasvar]

It makes sense that LV would have a better design. Had over 20 years of operational knowledge with the WDW system before they started with two old WDW Mark IV's. Then the extension had a lot of improvements too. I actually have never looked to see if there is a difference in the EPCOT beam design versus the Lagoon beams. Since they were about eight to ten years apart in design, there might be some modifications in design.

 

[montyz81]

It makes sense that LV would have a better design. Had over 20 years of operational knowledge with the WDW system before they started with two old WDW Mark IV's. Then the extension had a lot of improvements too. I actually have never looked to see if there is a difference in the EPCOT beam design versus the Lagoon beams. Since they were about eight to ten years apart in design, there might be some modifications in design.

I don't think so. From what I understand, the original beams were contracted out while the Epcot beams were built by Disney. I have hard monorail drivers on here say that the Epcot beams are not as good as the originals. I suspect Disney struggled to get the beams right rather then try to improve them. In my own experience, the Epcot run seems to be a rougher ride.

 

[flynnibus]

Picture this gap, except bigger

Is that a fair comparison? You're showing the bottom, not the actual ride surface. I seem to recall them using saw-tooth plates in the gaps. But I can't find a specific reference to confirm.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't think so. From what I understand, the original beams were contracted out while the Epcot beams were built by Disney. I have hard monorail drivers on here say that the Epcot beams are not as good as the originals. I suspect Disney struggled to get the beams right rather then try to improve them. In my own experience, the Epcot run seems to be a rougher ride.

The original beams were made out west in washington because they couldn't get them made in FL at the time.. while the newer beams I believe were constructed in FL.

Someone earlier asked why don't they just use steel like a roller coaster.

Check out the 'justifications' published in this monorail material scanned in
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kcOhS_A3tnc/SC34RFkMBUI/AAAAAAAAAFE/MiY-H6easok/s1600-h/mark4n.jpg
from http://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/the-monorail-system

 

[PhilharMagician]

Is that a fair comparison? You're showing the bottom, not the actual ride surface. I seem to recall them using saw-tooth plates in the gaps. But I can't find a specific reference to confirm.

I thought I had a pic of the expansion joint gaurds, but I cannot find it.

It is as you said, opposing fingers that are about 8" long and they can slide in and out during expansion and contraction. The issue here beinf that the beam has contracted so much the the fingers are no longer overlapping each other and now have a slight gap.

As you see by the picture below that the tracks are in no danger of falling since at these joints there are 2 support columns supporting the track with one on each side of the joint. The actual finger joint is easily viewable with a side shot of the beam.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Took me a minute, but I found it.

 

[Murphketeer]

what is the latest news?

 

[flynnibus]

well done

now one can see the real difference in the LV design.. which is not simply meshing plates, but overlapping plates.

 

[PhilharMagician]

The original beams were made out west in washington because they couldn't get them made in FL at the time.. while the newer beams I believe were constructed in FL.

Someone earlier asked why don't they just use steel like a roller coaster.

Check out the 'justifications' published in this monorail material scanned in
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kcOhS_A3tnc/SC34RFkMBUI/AAAAAAAAAFE/MiY-H6easok/s1600-h/mark4n.jpg
from http://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/the-monorail-system

Yeah, the Epcot expansion beams were constructed in FL. Now wasn't the beam maintenance/reduced monorail operating hours directed at the repair of the Epcot line beams? I thought I read that here somewhere.

 

[PhilharMagician]

well done

now one can see the real difference in the LV design.. which is not simply meshing plates, but overlapping plates.

This pic was taken in December of 2010 and if you zoom in a little and look at the fingers, you will see that there is not much overlap left and it was not all that cold since the other pics taken that day @ MK had almost everyone in t-shirts and shorts.

 

[Tom]

Took me a minute, but I found it.

After seeing this, it jogged my memory (finally). Thanks for the pic.

Could it be a scenario where the tracks are getting out of alignment horizontally? Perhaps the large span plate, which is cast into the pylon and each beam, is the component that's actually contracting, thus pulling the beams laterally.

 

[Rasvar]

I don't think so. From what I understand, the original beams were contracted out while the Epcot beams were built by Disney. I have hard monorail drivers on here say that the Epcot beams are not as good as the originals. I suspect Disney struggled to get the beams right rather then try to improve them. In my own experience, the Epcot run seems to be a rougher ride.

I've noticed the rougher ride, but that was not there under the Mark IV's. However, the beams are rough enough that max speed for the Mark VI's was not feasible. One thing that is interesting is that initially the beams were all painted. I was never sure if the painting of the beams was discontinued for cost or traction. The ride does seem rougher than what it was back when the beams were painted. I think it has been over 20 years since they were painted, maybe more.

Edit to add: I'm not sure if it was ever painted all the way. I do remember them being regularly painted near MK and TTC. I think within Epcot too. My memory is a bit fuzzy on this.

 

[PhilharMagician]

After seeing this, it jogged my memory (finally). Thanks for the pic.

Could it be a scenario where the tracks are getting out of alignment horizontally? Perhaps the large span plate, which is cast into the pylon and each beam, is the component that's actually contracting, thus pulling the beams laterally.

I thought about that, but I think that would close the monorail right down if that was an issue.

Could the beams have actually shrunk since they were manufactured? Would the linear stress on the concrete from the prestressed rebar pulling inward along with a continued drying of the concrete itself allow the beam to shrink even a little amount? :shrug: The idea seems slightly plausible to me, but I am no concrete engineer.

It just seems that they are just a little too far apart at the expansion joints. In fair weather that is around 70 degrees like in the pic it is somewhat concerning to see them barely overlapping.

 

[Tom]

I thought about that, but I think that would close the monorail right down if that was an issue.

Could the beams have actually shrunk since they were manufactured? Would the linear stress on the concrete from the prestressed rebar pulling inward along with a continued drying of the concrete itself allow the beam to shrink even a little amount? :shrug: The idea seems slightly plausible to me, but I am no concrete engineer.

It just seems that they are just a little too far apart at the expansion joints. In fair weather that is around 70 degrees like in the pic it is somewhat concerning to see them barely overlapping.

It's very possible that the beams have shrunk since they were installed. Concrete cures by way of the water evaporating from within. By now, every last molecule of water has been extracted from those beams, except for precipitation that is absorbed.

So, while they have indeed changed size over time, it didn't happen overnight. If it got cold enough to cause them to expand/contract that much, it's in the steel components, not the concrete itself.

So, perhaps age has gradually caused the joints to widen, in general, and the cold weather caused the steel components to shrink up even more.

I still think they should retrofit those splice plates that vegas put in. Those are nifty, and again, very easy to install later.