Magic Kingdom Monorails at Reduced Capacity Due to Beam Damage

[wdw71fan]

Ok... so I've gottne the full REAL story..



Cold weather over the past 72 hours caused the expansion joint to seperate,but not disjoin.. What does this mean? The expansion joint worked as designed, and did not completely 'disconnect' from the other side.. The concern is for extra wear on the tires of the trains.. It is expected that normal speeds will resume today as the weather rebounds (High of 78 today) and things 'expand' back to normal..

For what it's worth, apparently this happen 3-4 times a year at various locations across the system.. And has been doing so as long as my 'source' has been working on the system.. (since 1994)...

So, the following:

- IT'S NORMAL
- IT'S NOT A MAINTENANCE ISSUE
- IT WILL RESOLVE ITSELF (probably today)



It's amazing how quickly jump to criticizing Disney here... Especially the Attention ****** ...

 

[Clamman73]

This is an older picture from the on the resort beam heading from the GF to MK. Your first expansion joint is at pylon 112. (note the difference in that pylons construction and 111's) I believe your next expansion joint is at the top of the incline at 106. I'm no structural engineer, but that pylons position along with the curve could cause a lot of trouble when that concrete contracts in the cold.

I would say in that 106 - 105 - 104 curved section that the lateral force imposed by the monorail would possibly shift a contracted rail section if it was going at regular speed. Straight line sections shouldn't be a problem since it's mainly a downward force on the beam.
Since there's no steering wheel on the monorail, the beam has to enact an equal force against the monorail when it's in a curved section.
I'm more of a biologist than a physicist though...

 

[PlaneJane]

I've got 2 things to say.

The original designs were done by Bob Gurr. Don't mess with Bob Gurr

I love Ohana's and I miss it

 

[wdw71fan]

I've got 2 things to say.

The original designs were done by Bob Gurr. Don't mess with Bob Gurr

I love Ohana's and I miss it

Bob Gurr didn't design the track.. but i do agree with you, don't mess with Bob Gurr..

 

[PlaneJane]

Bob Gurr didn't design the track.. but i do agree with you, don't mess with Bob Gurr..

true that.. :drevil:

 

[Silver Figment]

Things like this make me wonder what is so great about the monorail resorts. :shrug:

 

[Polydweller]

Things like this make me wonder what is so great about the monorail resorts. :shrug:

What? It isn't the monorail that makes us stay at the monorail resort in fact rarely use the resort monorail. It's location. If the only reason to stay at a resort is the monorail then you're doing it for the wrong reason.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Things like this make me wonder what is so great about the monorail resorts. :shrug:

Don't get me wrong - I've stayed at all three and really like them, especially Grand Floridian. They all have a unique theme, spacious rooms, solid restaurants, and the beautiful Seven Seas Lagoon area. And that's ignoring the convenience to MK and magical Castle views.

But with huge new DVC buildings being constructed on the shore (taking away from that secluded feeling), and the monorail's reliability in question recently, I don't think these resorts are worth the current prices (even factoring in AP and other discounts). The Epcot resorts (including Swan and Dolphin) offer a great location, restaurants, pools, etc, and typically cost less.

 

[jme]

Yet they spend a billion dollars to bring Cartman on tv screens to small world?

When we see a billion dollars go into recreating cartman at small world, it becomes a head scratcher when at the same time, the monorail system repeatedly falls into disrepair.

Why again, are they spending all of this money to allow people to book fastpass reservations for Nemo 180 days out?

We've watched TDO spend (or continue to spend) a budget north of a BILLION dollars for noisemakers at the queues, TV monitors showing small world characters with the same quality animation as cartman from southpark and a new fast pass system that will make the problems caused by the current one look like a fairy tale dream.

This is the concern I have. We're not talking about TDO not spending the money on a few rabbits and bears in splash mountain in favor of screwing people out of spontaneity on their WDW trip. We're talking about TDO not spending the money on absolutely necessary passenger safety in favor of putting Cartman and Kenny on small world.

:ROFLOL:
It seems like we've got a broken record here. So, in your opinion, Mary Blairs art style is of the same quality of "South Park" (Cartman's character specifically).
Because this:

Looks more like this:

Than this:

And, that they are spending the entire project budget on just ONE... RUMORED queue.

Oh but wait you also mentioned that they are spending "all of this money" for booking fast passes for Nemo 180 days out.

Because there's a RUMOR that they are bringing fast pass to Nemo. And a RUMOR that they are going to allow you to make fast pass reservations. And because the ADR's can be booked out 180 days, then OBVIOUSLY the fast passes will work the same.

My that's some conclusion you came to there. Do you work for FOX NEWS by any chance?

 

[Tom]

Things like this make me wonder what is so great about the monorail resorts. :shrug:

Restaurants, room size, proximity to MK, immersive theme, atmosphere, marinas, and other amenities.

But with huge new DVC buildings being constructed on the shore (taking away from that secluded feeling), and the monorail's reliability in question recently, I don't think these resorts are worth the current prices (even factoring in AP and other discounts). The Epcot resorts (including Swan and Dolphin) offer a great location, restaurants, pools, etc, and typically cost less.

They are worth those prices because people keep paying them.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

They are worth those prices because people keep paying them.

To me, they're not worth the current prices, but I certainly don't doubt Disney's ability to fill most of the monorail resort rooms.

I'm just happy that we've seen the light and can still get a dose of Disney at Swan, Wilderness Lodge, or Yacht Club.

 

[COProgressFan]

Restaurants, room size, proximity to MK, immersive theme, atmosphere, marinas, and other amenities.



They are worth those prices because people keep paying them.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "prices". Because there are many times of the year when 90% + of rooms at the GF are guests paying a "discount" rate.

Clearly, many people don't think the rack rates are justified.

 

[fosse76]

I am no imagineer, or engineer even; but I have always wondered why they don't construct a monorail system out of the same rails that they make steel roller coasters out of.

Concrete isn't a good conductor of heat, so it will have varying degrees of temperature throughout its system. As such, when a ANY substance cools, its atoms/molecules contract. With concrete, because it doesn't conduct heat well, certain sections will contract before other sections. This can cause cracking. Same with extreme temperatures in heat. Atoms/molecules expand as the temperature increases, but since concrete isn't a strong conductor of heat, some sections expand before others, also causing cracks.

Steel, on the otherhand, IS a good conductor, and therefore is more or less at a constant temperature (ignoring variables). So the entire structure will, essentially, expand and contract at roughly the same rate, so it's more easily "planned." However, as the world isn't ideal and nothing wors perfectly, steel structures also can come out of alignment. The constant contraction and expansion always needs to be monitored. What you don't see is the maintenance crews in those parks constantly welding the structure and replacing joints and other equipment. Even sections of track are completely replaced over the life of the coaster.

This system works fine for roller coasters that exceed 400 ft. high, contains hundreds of feet of track and can run multiple trains on that track at the same time. A new high end blockbuster roller coaster at a theme park may run $50-100 million to construct, but brings in quite a few revenues during it's first years online. Straighten out the tracks of a roller coaster and you have the length of the resort monorail lines. Then factor out the enigeering and extra support a coaster needs and a steel monorail track should be cheaper to build than the current concrete system. A newer built steel track monorail may be more economic, faster (yet safer), need less maintanence and may even let Disney expand to other onsite properties. Oops, did I say that out loud?

It MIGHT be cheaper, but would require no less maintenance. Steel rusts, which can cause some problems. As for expansion to other resorts, I believa good portion of the cost deals with the footers for any structures, and the fact the land isn't too ideal for those types of structures.

 

[stitch2008]

I've rested my case on this last night. But your comments only, forgive the pun, cement my case further. Unless you can make a case that this is a planned-for engineering limitation which required such a slowdown back as far as winter 71-72 (which is going to be severely difficult for me and the rest of the rational headed denizens and spirits here), then this is a structural *problem* and not an acceptable design constraint. To that end, the fact that it's not being addressed, regardless of the cost. Heck, it can't be more than a BILLION dollars, right?, right?

We've watched TDO spend (or continue to spend) a budget north of a BILLION dollars for noisemakers at the queues, TV monitors showing small world characters with the same quality animation as cartman from southpark and a new fast pass system that will make the problems caused by the current one look like a fairy tale dream.

I don't care how much money it costs, if you have a structural issue that requires a heavily used passenger ride system to slow to a crawl for safety reasons....you'd think that the cost would be immediately realized by TDO to correct the problem....What happens if a monorail car jumps the track (or the track falls out from underneath) one year? What happens when 10-20 people die in such an accident. Will the cost have been too much then?!?!?!

I guarantee you, in the face of such a tragic accident, guests would gladly accept a shutdown of the loop for a proper structural repair. Will people bi*ch and moan about it both there and here? Yup! You betcha! But I strongly suspect the reaction will be far worse when something more serious happens.

This is the concern I have. We're not talking about TDO not spending the money on a few rabbits and bears in splash mountain in favor of screwing people out of spontaneity on their WDW trip. We're talking about TDO not spending the money on absolutely necessary passenger safety in favor of putting Cartman and Kenny on small world.

How anyone can view my concerns with an opposing defensive position is mind boggling. Hey, it's ok!! So long as you get your X-pass and your meet and greets, right? Who cares who dies on the way to the MK, right?

Your a whole post, especially what I put in bold, just shows you either aren't reading what people post or you just don't care. I'm guessing you just don't care because you are this into yet another hate on TDO thread. No one is saying this is a massive issue. This isn't gonna cause things to crash and be destroyed. You would know if there was an issue that would cause that. This is just something that effects the monorails. There isn't much TDO can do in this situation. It's going to happen no matter what they do. But monorails aren't going to go flying and kill people because of this.

Ok... so I've gottne the full REAL story..



Cold weather over the past 72 hours caused the expansion joint to seperate,but not disjoin.. What does this mean? The expansion joint worked as designed, and did not completely 'disconnect' from the other side.. The concern is for extra wear on the tires of the trains.. It is expected that normal speeds will resume today as the weather rebounds (High of 78 today) and things 'expand' back to normal..

For what it's worth, apparently this happen 3-4 times a year at various locations across the system.. And has been doing so as long as my 'source' has been working on the system.. (since 1994)...

So, the following:

- IT'S NORMAL
- IT'S NOT A MAINTENANCE ISSUE
- IT WILL RESOLVE ITSELF (probably today)



It's amazing how quickly jump to criticizing Disney here... Especially the Attention ****** ...

Quoted for the truth.

My that's some conclusion you came to there. Do you work for the news by any chance?

Dont stop there. They are all the same. They all stink.

 

[monorailguy1987]

wow!

Wow! it cracks me up that you are all so fast to blame this on TDO not taking the time to put the proper maintenance into the system!!! Things like this happen in real life all over the world not just at Disney Just think if your at the doctors and the tv in the lobby was broken you wouldn't come on here and complain for hours about it would you? NO!

The expansion joint at pylon 106 had expanded and to stop the monorails from damaging there tires they operate at a reduced speed! Would you rather go slower or be ask to get off the train so it can go to shop and get its tires replaced?

Here is an idea maybe think about the logical side of things before you go starting all these rumours and attacks on the monorail system! They are in a lot better shape than they were before the reduced hours! Trust me

 

[jme]

Dont stop there. They are all the same. They all stink.

Fair point.

 

[Tom]

Wow! it cracks me up that you are all so fast to blame this on TDO not taking the time to put the proper maintenance into the system!!! Things like this happen in real life all over the world not just at Disney Just think if your at the doctors and the tv in the lobby was broken you wouldn't come on here and complain for hours about it would you? NO!

The expansion joint at pylon 106 had expanded and to stop the monorails from damaging there tires they operate at a reduced speed! Would you rather go slower or be ask to get off the train so it can go to shop and get its tires replaced?

Here is an idea maybe think about the logical side of things before you go starting all these rumours and attacks on the monorail system! They are in a lot better shape than they were before the reduced hours! Trust me

Can you elaborate on the bold statement, please?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Wow! it cracks me up that you are all so fast to blame this on TDO not taking the time to put the proper maintenance into the system!!! Things like this happen in real life all over the world not just at Disney Just think if your at the doctors and the tv in the lobby was broken you wouldn't come on here and complain for hours about it would you? NO!

The expansion joint at pylon 106 had expanded and to stop the monorails from damaging there tires they operate at a reduced speed! Would you rather go slower or be ask to get off the train so it can go to shop and get its tires replaced?

Here is an idea maybe think about the logical side of things before you go starting all these rumours and attacks on the monorail system! They are in a lot better shape than they were before the reduced hours! Trust me

From a customer's perspective, the monorail seems more like a liability than the fun, quick, futuristic experience it used to be. I don't want to get stuck on a monorail for an hour and miss my dining reservation (for which I'll now receive a hefty charge) because Disney couldn't spend the money on adequately maintaining the system for years and years. It might be better now than it was over the summer, but in my mind, the monorail isn't as trustworthy as it once was (and Disney keeps charging more and more to be at a resort with access to that 'privilege').

 

[ScoutN]

Can you elaborate on the bold statement, please?

More regular routine maitenance?

 

[flynnibus]

I am no imagineer, or engineer even; but I have always wondered why they don't construct a monorail system out of the same rails that they make steel roller coasters out of. This system works fine for roller coasters that exceed 400 ft. high, contains hundreds of feet of track and can run multiple trains on that track at the same time. A new high end blockbuster roller coaster at a theme park may run $50-100 million to construct, but brings in quite a few revenues during it's first years online. Straighten out the tracks of a roller coaster and you have the length of the resort monorail lines. Then factor out the enigeering and extra support a coaster needs and a steel monorail track should be cheaper to build than the current concrete system. A newer built steel track monorail may be more economic, faster (yet safer), need less maintanence and may even let Disney expand to other onsite properties. Oops, did I say that out loud?

Simply put... weight. A heavy train system weighs orders of magnitude more then a simple ride vehicle. While coasters go fast which increases their load on things, its something that can be planned for. Trains are always heavy, and get heavier with more passengers.

Concrete is better at taking compression loads. Concrete also wears and weathers very well.

Steel is good for lightweight strength that is flexible. It bends without deforming, etc.

Train tracks are made from steel, but they are supported by sturdy railbeds.

Concrete beams probably aren't as sexy as they were 40 years ago due to the rising cost of concrete.. but concrete is still the material of choice in elevated platforms in most places.