Magic Kingdom evening Extra Magic Hours attraction line-up to change next week

luv

Well-Known Member
HA!!! This was exactly what I feared might happen when they announced MM&Y!

Mark my words, that's exactly what will happen at some point. The projection show won't replace the fireworks, but the two will merge eventually so that they can cut out at least half of the pyro.
I've been worried about that since they started this MM&Y stuff, too.

I think the removal of hours and rides from EMH is Disney's way of getting people ready for the removal of EMH, too. I think they'll get rid of it when they roll out the new FP thing.
 

kucarachi

Active Member
So..this means it will never be open for extra magic hours in the future? I don't think it will be a huge deal once the new fantasyland expansion is open...seems splash is generally easy to ride during the day. The fantasyland attractions are the hard ones to get in one day. But for the love of baby jesus, how does a boring bird show make up for an e ticket ride.

And for all the people calling it ghetto mountain because some robot birds dont dance the way you want...try shaking your magic wand at it and see what happens? do you really think they are ordering parts off ebay? we don't know why this stuff doesnt always work and if your whole vacation is based on the quality of dancing robotic chickens then i am not sure you will ever be happy!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
First, who said I worked at the MK?

Second, Operations and Maintenance are two COMPLETELY different departments.

Knowing how you are, I thought you would know that by now but apparently not.

This post shows how much you know your stuff. :)

You certainly acted as if you did. ... And I know the difference between OPs and Maintenance as I'm sure you know, I am talking about things in general as you should have been able to discern.

I honestly don't ever recall reading a single post of yours in my 4-5 years on this site, so excuse me if when you come into a thread and post 15? times in a day attacking guests that maybe you have an agenda or maybe you just hate your job and wish to take it out on the guests.

That wouldn't exactly be a MAGICal first now would it?

I had a lot of respect for you because I liked quite a bit of what you have said about insider info. Other times, either too cynical or negative for my taste (and I'm a realist if that says anything), or just times you have come off just plain rude. The third is pretty much what's going on here. Pretty much lost respect for the fact that you've had to go and answer every one of my posts and basically laugh at it when I've already supported and defended my answer in my earlier replies. Sorta sad really that you have to go through all of them like this and want to rip someone apart.

I'm not looking to rip anyone apart. You suddenly appear here and attack the guests/fans who aren't happy by yet more cutting of quality/paying more and getting less. I'm tired of reading crap like that. You certainly made good points, but they got lost in all the 'blame the fans/guests' BS. You know that, I'm sure!

And in regards to the 25 year CM, believe me, he's tried for years on end and he's supported the right policies/leaders. The only way to get a job using his MFA degree is to move out of here because there's not many of those positions here in Orlando. With three mouths to feed including his own, 1100 in house rent, car loan and a $75,000 college loan when he graduated college back in the mid-80s, it's just not possible. How can he if he has sometimes only 15-45 dollars from one week to the next, after all necesscary weekly expenditures are done? He's applied to other jobs since the mid-90's and nothing's come up. Soon will be another chance but who knows what could happen. Just goes to show a perfect example of a long-time WDW CM who loves his job but strives for more, just like many other CM's.

Believe me, I get that this country is headed into an abyss and has been for 20 years, it just took until 2008 for everything to hit the fan. I went to a local mall tonight in the heart of a very populated area of SoFla for the first time in a year. Literally, 40% of the shops have closed up, including the Disney Store. It's deader than dead and believe three of the four anchor stores are ready to shut down.

I know many who are vastly underpaid, others who are unemployed or underemployed and basically sitting waiting for a miracle, looking to leave the state (or country) or using pills to prevent suicide. I DO get it.

But his situation should be dealt with internally, not tossed out on a Disney fan forum to justify the bad decisions of a company. Disney has no use for its CMs or guests, largely ... that may be sad. But it is reality. Once you realize that and move on, it gets easier.
 

t3techcom18

Well-Known Member
You certainly acted as if you did. ... And I know the difference between OPs and Maintenance as I'm sure you know, I am talking about things in general as you should have been able to discern.

I honestly don't ever recall reading a single post of yours in my 4-5 years on this site, so excuse me if when you come into a thread and post 15? times in a day attacking guests that maybe you have an agenda or maybe you just hate your job and wish to take it out on the guests.

That wouldn't exactly be a MAGICal first now would it?


I'm not looking to rip anyone apart. You suddenly appear here and attack the guests/fans who aren't happy by yet more cutting of quality/paying more and getting less. I'm tired of reading crap like that. You certainly made good points, but they got lost in all the 'blame the fans/guests' BS. You know that, I'm sure!


Believe me, I get that this country is headed into an abyss and has been for 20 years, it just took until 2008 for everything to hit the fan. I went to a local mall tonight in the heart of a very populated area of SoFla for the first time in a year. Literally, 40% of the shops have closed up, including the Disney Store. It's deader than dead and believe three of the four anchor stores are ready to shut down.

I know many who are vastly underpaid, others who are unemployed or underemployed and basically sitting waiting for a miracle, looking to leave the state (or country) or using pills to prevent suicide. I DO get it.

But his situation should be dealt with internally, not tossed out on a Disney fan forum to justify the bad decisions of a company. Disney has no use for its CMs or guests, largely ... that may be sad. But it is reality. Once you realize that and move on, it gets easier.

Or just be Lou Mongello or another social media . I'd love to know his annual tab that Disney pays for these people to shove out piles of talking points/mousecamanure on fans.

I've been reading the site since 02, user on the forums since 03. After the SSE Descent Schism that lead into how everything is on here today, I went into hiding. I used to post a lot on here, especially doing my own set of updates and such. Now, I start a thread or post a reply and get ripped to shreds when I say something of great importance or of factual evidence/logic. That's why I haven't posted on here in a while and if I do, it's rare. I just sit back and read everything nowadays. It's pointless to post when everyone else rips each other's heads off. Last I checked, that wasn't the meaning of fandom, particulary Disney fandom.

Yeah, I definitely know that indeed. Like I said, I agree wholeheartedly with most of your posts. I definitely agree with the users on here and I'm most definitely not one of the apologists; on the other hand, I was one of the pioneers of this discussion, if I don't sound too egotistical saying that. All the way back in the days of General Grizz and the Save Disney campaign, I wrote a post on that very topic that got good acclaim and I still agree with to this day. WDW has become what I had feared; something I predicted back in 04:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...isons-to-walt-disney-world.45434/#post-760969

People think I was trying to derail the whole convo here and I wasn't. I agree with their built-up anger over cost-cutting, even if it's very, very, VERY slowly returning to where it was. As you said (or another poster might've said it), Staggs is basically asking why things aren't being run the way they should be. While it's not a dramatic change to WDW, for him to actually say that is a HUGE deal and something to be thankful for. If anything, the main theme of what I was trying to say was how people want maintenance; they get their wish - they complain; People complain that they took away an attraction but added one in its place. People complain one hour was taken away yet they're not thankful they didn't take it away completely.

After seeing how the management treats CM's firsthand, I agree. Some are phenomenal human beings - but others forget the fact that CM's ARE human beings. Instead of congratulating, seeing what everyone has done right, they go and search for something wrong. This may be true of all jobs, but to have it at a place where it relies on you doing something right and creating an experience for others...it's just plain wrong.



Thanks for speaking out like that and reconciling. :)
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
TDO reminds me of Steve Martin in Father of the Bride. He keeps freaking out over the cost of the wedding and wants to cut costs as much as he can. He eventually hits a breaking point and freaks out over the superfluous hot dog buns he doesn't want to pay for (great scene), and eventually ends up in jail. After realizing that being cheap won't make anyone happy, he loosens up, decides to spend a littlle extra and everything works out great. Let's hope life imitates art and we get a happy ending. And if you haven't seen the movie, I highly suggest you do. It's great.
 

tractorm3

Active Member
I wish we could get WDC to weigh in more about the choices they are making. have like an open forum where our concerns can be addressed. Everything we got is just pure speculation. I myself will complain over soem changes here and there but will always consider Disney #1 and it will always be my place of choice to travel.


I would sell a kidney if it meant goign to WDW longer on a vaca, and the scales are still tipped in that favor but there sure is more weight being added to vacationing some where else.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
Why don't you read what was said ... the confirmation as you state it (and I don't know either poster, for all I know they don't even work at WDW, but I'm gonna trust they do) only stated that it was for maintenance ... but not that it was NOT dictated by money, which it ultimately was.

Ah, you protest too much. Upset you missed again?

You complain there's not enough maintenance. So they make changes to complete more maintenance.

Now you turn around and say, no, it's about budget cuts and being cheap.

You were wrong. You will complain no matter what is done. I'm starting to think you have a vendetta...

Rally those troops and keep them fighting for something. More maintenance, no, more hours, no, less cuts, something, we have to whine about something!
 

TarzanRocked99-

Well-Known Member
Good grief this change has NOTHING to do with maintenance improvements. It has everything to do with cost savings, same as the recent changes to the Turf Bar and Grill and many more F&B locations that will be following suit over the next few months. As for the condition of Splash what needs to be done in order to right that ship cannot take place over an additional 3 hour period twice a week and the ride and the MK West Maintenance Engineering Team is well aware of that. Expect Splash to go down for an extended rehab ala BTMR next year.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Good grief this change has NOTHING to do with maintenance improvements. It has everything to do with cost savings, same as the recent changes to the Turf Bar and Grill and many more F&B locations that will be following suit over the next few months. As for the condition of Splash what needs to be done in order to right that ship cannot take place over an additional 3 hour period twice a week and the ride and MK West Maintenance Engineering Team is well aware of that. Expect Splash to go down for an extended rehab ala BTMR next year.

Some people don't know sound reasoning even when you beat them over the head with it.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
You're right. They should hire some internet forum dwellers to show them how to do it right. :rolleyes:

I can see by your clever use of a smiley that you intended this sarcastically. And yet, given Disney's abysmal track record of late, perhaps hiring "forum dwellers"* might not be a bad idea. Could they do any worse than John Carter? I think not.

*How does one "dwell" in a virtual space like a forum anyway? Oh, the "wanna be" was just being dismissive to anyone who does not share his/her opinion? Duly noted.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Well, it is a Marketing 101 concept. So, you're probably right.
One of my marketing professors was a big shot at Gilette and he told the story about a meeting he had with his team where he suggested that Gilette sends out a Mach 3 Razor to males on the 16th or 18th birthday (I can't remember which one it was). The team didn't understand the concept of what good will that creates and how hooking someone for life lends to much greater profits down the road. It's a very simple concept.

I had an experience at a restaurant last week. Let me preface this by saying that I have never asked to be comped any part of my meal prior to this incident. The restaurant in question is a great restaurant in Alston, MA called The Sunset Grill & Tap. They have 100+ beers on tap, and great food. As a teetotaler the beers don't do anything for me (and they have crappy soda, but that's irrelevant), but the food is excellent. We've never had exceptional service there, but it's always been average to above average. Fast forward to our most recent meal. Our waiter was very nice, but he made a mistake and didn't bring out the basket of fries we ordered until after a second request was made and after our entrees were served (we ordered it as an appetizer). At the end of the meal I politely requested that it be taken off the bill (I wanted to give them the opportunity to offer it first, but they didn't). The waiter went over to look for his manager who was already making the rounds and she got to us before he got to her. I explained to her the situation and she explained a "policy by the Owner" that forbade them from comping anything that was actually received. We had a civil conversation but I know I made her feel uncomfortable by saying, "Your waiter made a mistake and your option is to either remove the item or have his tip suffer. I'm not going to feel guilty for giving him a bad tip, that's going to be on you." I then went into the explanation of making a good faith gesture to someone that has been going to this restaurant for years and to pass along this encounter to the owner. The waiter then took it upon himself to pay for the fries (all of $6) and we tipped him 20% if you don't factor in the price of the fries.

This speaks to the general rule of thumb that if you have a good experience you tell 2 people, if you have a bad experience you tell 10 people. Negative word of mouth is going to start to be more rampant regarding Disney World.
 

njDizFan

Well-Known Member
Ah, you protest too much. Upset you missed again?

You complain there's not enough maintenance. So they make changes to complete more maintenance.

Now you turn around and say, no, it's about budget cuts and being cheap.

You were wrong. You will complain no matter what is done. I'm starting to think you have a vendetta...

Rally those troops and keep them fighting for something. More maintenance, no, more hours, no, less cuts, something, we have to whine about something!
I think you are intentionally missing the point. This is another TDO money grab because they decided to reduce the maintenence personel that would normally work on this attraction and now they are so stretched out they don't have enough manpower. And by doing so the guest is effected since now they have to shut the ride down during EMH to make up for their shortsighted profit motiff.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Ah, you protest too much. Upset you missed again?

You complain there's not enough maintenance. So they make changes to complete more maintenance.

Now you turn around and say, no, it's about budget cuts and being cheap.

You were wrong. You will complain no matter what is done. I'm starting to think you have a vendetta...

Rally those troops and keep them fighting for something. More maintenance, no, more hours, no, less cuts, something, we have to whine about something!
How is it not easy to understand? Seriously.:rolleyes:

Let's say Splash is closing for more maintenance. That would be good. We all want more maintenance, even though it's a shame it has to come at the expense of the ride's operating hours.

But it IS most definately about money. The cuts that have decimated the WDW maintenance over the years, as a cost-saving measure, are what has landed them in the position where they would need to cut EMH hours to get the needed work done. If they were working with a fully staffed and funded maintenance crew, there would be no need for the extra few hours each night. Rather than bring extra manpower to ensure the ride is properly maintained, even with the short turn-around on EMH nights, they just cut the ride from the lineup.

Splash is indeed a difficult attraction to operate and maintain, but with the proper funding and care, it can certainly be done and done well. Tokyo's version runs just as much as MK's, but with none of the show quality or maintenance issues, looking as good today as it did the day it opened. Why? They spend the money to make sure it is that way.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
One of my marketing professors was a big shot at Gilette and he told the story about a meeting he had with his team where he suggested that Gilette sends out a Mach 3 Razor to males on the 16th or 18th birthday (I can't remember which one it was). The team didn't understand the concept of what good will that creates and how hooking someone for life lends to much greater profits down the road. It's a very simple concept.

Honestly, I can't remember the last razor I bought. Every one I have owned in recent memory, I got for free. But I spend a lot of money on the blades which are far more expensive than the razor itself.

It is a simple concept that is extremely effective. And yet, simple as it is, it eludes some. Especially those who can't see past their spreadsheets.
 

Alektronic

Well-Known Member
Good grief this change has NOTHING to do with maintenance improvements. It has everything to do with cost savings, same as the recent changes to the Turf Bar and Grill and many more F&B locations that will be following suit over the next few months. As for the condition of Splash what needs to be done in order to right that ship cannot take place over an additional 3 hour period twice a week and the ride and the MK West Maintenance Engineering Team is well aware of that. Expect Splash to go down for an extended rehab ala BTMR next year.

Who said anything about maintenance IMPROVEMENTS? It is just to give enough time to do the MINIMUM maintenance requirement to allow the ride to open the next day and if they run into any problems then it is a really tight fit time wise.

But it is also a cost cutting move, it takes a lot less people to staff Tiki than Splash. But if you want the official Disney line on it:

"As we continue to evaluate what we offer our Guests at the Magic Kingdom Park, we have decided to add Walt Disney’s Enchanted Tiki Room and remove Splash Mountain from the PM EMH Offerings."
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
How is it not easy to understand? Seriously.:rolleyes:

Let's say Splash is closing for more maintenance. That would be good. We all want more maintenance, even though it's a shame it has to come at the expense of the ride's operating hours.

But it IS most definately about money. The cuts that have decimated the WDW maintenance over the years, as a cost-saving measure, are what has landed them in the position where they would need to cut EMH hours to get the needed work done. If they were working with a fully staffed and funded maintenance crew, there would be no need for the extra few hours each night. Rather than bring extra manpower to ensure the ride is properly maintained, even with the short turn-around on EMH nights, they just cut the ride from the lineup.

Splash is indeed a difficult attraction to operate and maintain, but with the proper funding and care, it can certainly be done and done well. Tokyo's version runs just as much as MK's, but with none of the show quality or maintenance issues, looking as good today as it did the day it opened. Why? They spend the money to make sure it is that way.
If maintenance was what you wanted, then you would praise their moves to increase maintenance. While I personally would understand attractions being closed for maintenance, it's a hard hit when they do. Those 1st time / only time visitors want all the attractions open so I completely understand why they want the attractions open as much as possible. There are so many trade-offs to make people happy - the customers, not the fanbois who are rarely happy.

1. Attraction in perfect working order - needs routine closing and maintenance --> upset customers, happy fanbois
2. Attraction not in perfect order - stays open for more people to experience --> happier customers overall, upset fanbois

If they need more staff, they should hire them. However, I have a feeling the "decimated" staffing is more hyperbole than fact.
 

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