LucasLand Blue Sky Rumor @ DHS

[NoChesterHester]

You must have missed the last 12 months at IOA then, or are you Jt in disguise?
The economic principle is obviously too big a concept for you to grasp so Ill keep this simple. Just because you keep repeating the same mantra doesnt make it workable. Disney currently has two half day parks, a park that has seen no major addition for nearly 20 years, and two more till it gets one, and the final park that is only operating 3/4 of its area due to shuttered attractions, yet you declare that they wont repeat the mistakes of 12 years ago? They havent stopped making it!

You sir are talking utter mince.
Consolidation before expansion makes sense on every level, unless your a ubber fan.

Stop speaking logical. No place for that here.

As a huge fan I would much rather see them make additions to the existing parks. I don't have any interest in another half day park to complain about on the message boards.

 

[JimboJones123]

I agree with AK being a foolish burn of money that did NOT pay off. They could have made 2 damn fine full day parks for the cost of AK.

 

[jt04]

I agree with AK being a foolish burn of money that did NOT pay off. They could have made 2 damn fine full day parks for the cost of AK.

It is so frustrating to me that they don't push DAK over the finish line. It is right there and I'd say a modest investment could make it a full day park. I really think they are not sure which direction to take the park. I think it comes down to a conflict between a full fledged zoo or a theme park. I don't think they will be doing both as they go forward due to overhead costs. Just my opinion.

I'd go theme park if I was them. But I can see why they may be stuck trying to decide.

 

[flavious27]

You must have missed the last 12 months at IOA then, or are you Jt in disguise?
The economic principle is obviously too big a concept for you to grasp so Ill keep this simple. Just because you keep repeating the same mantra doesnt make it workable. Disney currently has two half day parks, a park that has seen no major addition for nearly 20 years, and two more till it gets one, and the final park that is only operating 3/4 of its area due to shuttered attractions, yet you declare that they wont repeat the mistakes of 12 years ago? They havent stopped making it!

You sir are talking utter mince.
Consolidation before expansion makes sense on every level, unless your a ubber fan.

1 year of success can not shadow over the many years of lesser success.

I won't dispute that expansion is desperately needed in the parks and that tdo has neglected the parks with cheap shortcuts. TDO needs to expand the current gates but it a new gate also expands the possible themes and franchises that disney can use and market. TDO needs a shot in the arm; that would be an expansion party wide, and a new gate with hotels.

 

[flavious27]

I agree with AK being a foolish burn of money that did NOT pay off. They could have made 2 damn fine full day parks for the cost of AK.

Please, we would have gotten two Disney Orlando Adventures. DCA was built for 600 million, and look at how bad it was. How would two parks costing 500 million each be full day and "damn fine"?

 

[RSoxNo1]

What really baffles me is that we haven't seen an implementation of the Pooh's Hunny Hunt Technology in the states. The closest rumor I've heard is the Ratatouille Ride going to Disney Studios Paris and Paradise Pier.

I assume the reason behind this is that outside us fanboys it's a hard marketing sell unless it's attached to a hot franchise. But I point to one of John Lasseter's lines, "Quality is the best business plan."

We know what Imagineering is capable of. I'm not asking for an unrealistic pace for additions to the parks, but putting a little more trust, and a little more money in the capable hands of Imagineering can show Disney that WDW can still grow in attendance and profits.

 

[plutoismyhero]

The pooh's hunny hunt tech is something i have wanted at WDW since i first saw it i really think it could be used well with Tron. But its a dream. And another park is not the answer and until at least 2 of the current 4 "fill out" we will not see one.
Dont get me wrong i would love to see a new park but its not smart or logical for disney to spend the money on another park. They could take the say 750 million they would spend on another half day park and throw all that money at DHS!!! Then DHS would be amazing!

 

[cheezbat]

I think its quite obvious that Disney needs to get all four parks up to par...and once they do that, THEN they could take the approach they're currently taking in the parks...gradually adding attractions to the parks...every four years or so. Such a shame WDW isn't meeting the standards that they set. So much work needs to be done to get them to where they should all be.

 

[lebeau]

I think it is that and also that it did not have anything that really warranted extending from three days to four or four to five. EE kinda of helps with that, but they need something else to bring in guests that don't have kids.

Funny, we skip AK because they don't have enough for our kids to do. We have young kids and are basically limited to shows, a playground, animal exhibits, meet and greets and one ride: the safari. We can do acceptable versions of most of those things at the local zoo. Every other park (even DHS) offers more for my kids to do than DAK.

Maybe they need to offer more for everyone. :shrug:

To my mind, DAK needs a dark ride (or several) more than anything. I'd rank the need for another thrill ride as pretty darn low. Although it would probably help if they fixed the yeti and the effects in Dinosaur.

We have a 20 month daughter, so we will be in dak longer than 3 or 4 pm. dak just has too much ff attractions for guests without kids.


ff just seems like tdo's favorite type of attraction category as of late.

Maybe you can elaborate. My experience with kids seems to be the exact opposite of yours. :shrug:

 

[lebeau]

I think its quite obvious that Disney needs to get all four parks up to par...and once they do that, THEN they could take the approach they're currently taking in the parks...gradually adding attractions to the parks...every four years or so. Such a shame WDW isn't meeting the standards that they set. So much work needs to be done to get them to where they should all be.

I agree this is "obvious". And yet, people are always on here arguing for a fifth gate.

I honestly can't think of anything WDW needs less than a 5th gate at this point. They have 4 gates that are neglected. Adding a 5th would only spread the resources thinner.

 

[ryanduggers]

You must have missed the last 12 months at IOA then, or are you Jt in disguise?
The economic principle is obviously too big a concept for you to grasp so Ill keep this simple. Just because you keep repeating the same mantra doesnt make it workable. Disney currently has two half day parks, a park that has seen no major addition for nearly 20 years, and two more till it gets one, and the final park that is only operating 3/4 of its area due to shuttered attractions, yet you declare that they wont repeat the mistakes of 12 years ago? They havent stopped making it!

You sir are talking utter mince.
Consolidation before expansion makes sense on every level, unless your a ubber fan.

I agree, don't even think about a fifth park until you fix or replace what is wrong with the other four. Right now a fifth park would be stupid...

 

[jt04]

1 year of success can not shadow over the many years of lesser success.

I won't dispute that expansion is desperately needed in the parks and that tdo has neglected the parks with cheap shortcuts. TDO needs to expand the current gates but it a new gate also expands the possible themes and franchises that disney can use and market. TDO needs a shot in the arm; that would be an expansion party wide, and a new gate with hotels.

Fortunately or unfortunately I think it is obvious these decisions come from Cali now. And Iger has said they are cutting back on capital expenditures for the short term at least.

What worries me even more though is that the better Universal does the better WDW does by inevitably getting some of those visitors and also from sales of Marvel merchandise. It doesn't even require any effort on the part of WDW. They really are in a winning position now and probably are not thinking beyond the current projects that are underway.

They seem to me to be in 'wait and see' mode.

 

[lebeau]

Fortunately or unfortunately I think it is obvious these decisions come from Cali now. And Iger has said they are cutting back on capital expenditures for the short term at least.

What worries me even more though is that the better Universal does the better WDW does by inevitably getting some of those visitors and also from sales of Marvel merchandise. It doesn't even require any effort on the part of WDW. They really are in a winning position now and probably are not thinking beyond the current projects that are underway.

They seem to me to be in 'wait and see' mode.

In a rare turn of events, I agree with most everything you said. But I find it funny you thought to mention the sales of Marvel merch at Universal. You know Disney's making the same amount of money off of Marvel merch that Marvel used to make before the purchase. By Disney standards, it amounts to chump change.

But other than that, we are in agreement.

 

[AEfx]

In a rare turn of events, I agree with most everything you said. But I find it funny you thought to mention the sales of Marvel merch at Universal. You know Disney's making the same amount of money off of Marvel merch that Marvel used to make before the purchase. By Disney standards, it amounts to chump change.

But other than that, we are in agreement.

Hehe, and they were already heavily discounting Marvel merch from USH way back over a year ago. Heavily. Everything I saw in that park (which has no Marvel connection really - do they even get streetsmosphere?) was 50% off that related to any Marvel brand.

As to the ongoing park discussion, both sides are right in a way.

1) AK didn't really increase resort attendance,

*BUT*

(and this is a big Ursula-sized but)

2) That could be because overall people didn't find the theme the AK ended up as being terribly exciting, it looked more like a really big Epcot exhibit to them in advertising or some new land at the Magic Kingdom (strange? yes, but the average person says they can't tell the difference between Blu-ray and DVD really either).

A fifth park COULD drive more people down. Just like they will continue to be driven by Harry Potter for years to come. Even as Potter-mania dies down in a few years, people will still have it in their heads that it's there. Not everyone instantly responds to advertising right away, they may recall it years later and go, "Yeah, let's make sure we go to Universal, too". A fifth park with a really great theme and a really spectacular theme park - yeah, that could increase attendance. Just because AK didn't, doesn't mean something else couldn't (which is like saying one romantic comedy film bombs, no romantic comedy will ever be successful again).


ALL THAT SAID...I agree with "let's work on the parks we have". Both AK and MGM need major additions (major, e-tickets, multiple hopefully). MK will be looking pretty good after FLE, and of course there is always Epcot - some think it's perfect, some think it's a mess, but it's kind of always been that way in one fashion or another so it's kind of the grand-daddy stalewart.

MGM could blow IOA out of the water if they added a few more big rides - Lucasland (a Star Wars dark ride/restaurant, Indy), Muppet Studios with a big dark ride and some smaller stuff. That would be a hell of a park. At this pace, it will be 2030 before it happens, but it's one happy thought for me.

(AK, well, that place can use anything major, but since I'm not a really big fan to begin with I leave that blue sky wishing to others.)

 

[RSoxNo1]

We're starting to get into Armchair Imagineering here, but I agree with pretty much everything that AEfx has said. A few days ago someone did a status update of rumors/fan boy dreams and I'd like to do something similar but pointing out the dead areas of parks, attractions that should be slated for demolition, and expansion pads.

Magic Kingdom
20K Leagues Under the Sea Area - In progress Fantasyland Expansion
Carousel of Progress/Tomorrowland Theater - Nothing imminent, latest rumor was Tron Coaster possibly in that area
Stitchs Great Escape/Monsters Inc Laugh Floor - Nothing imminent
Adventureland Expansion area - Nothing imminent
Frontierland Expansion area - Nothing imminent

Epcot
World Showcase Expansion areas - Brazil rumors
Wonders of Life/Universe of Energy areas - Nothing imminent
Imagination Pavilion area - Nothing imminent
The Odyssey - Nothing Imminent
Millennium Village

Hollywood Studios
Backlot Tour - Carsland Rumor, but not imminent
Vacant Pixar Place stage - Monsters Inc Coaster rumor
Expansion Area between Sunset Boulevard/Behind Animation Courtyard - Nothing imminent
Expansion Area behind Rock 'n' Roller Coaster
Sounds Dangerous - Jedi Training Academy expansion, but still just rumor
Sunset Boulevard expansion pads near Fantasmic/Beauty and the Beast

Animal Kingdom
Camp Minnie Mickey area - Plenty of rumors, nothing imminent
Dinorama - Fan boy optimism, but nothing imminent
Large expansion pad behind Kali River Rapids/Maharajah Jungle Trek - nothing imminent
Expansion Area between Expedition Everest/Finding Nemo - nothing imminent
Discovery River Boat Docks - nothing imminent

I'm sure I'm missing some things, but the fact of the matter is, there is plenty of useable space in the existing parks. I think that if 1/4 of these things have been addressed in the next 10 years I'd be surprised, but I also think that if 1/4 of these things have been addressed most of us would be quite satisfied with that level of attention.

 

[lebeau]

A fifth park COULD drive more people down. Just like they will continue to be driven by Harry Potter for years to come. Even as Potter-mania dies down in a few years, people will still have it in their heads that it's there. Not everyone instantly responds to advertising right away, they may recall it years later and go, "Yeah, let's make sure we go to Universal, too". A fifth park with a really great theme and a really spectacular theme park - yeah, that could increase attendance. Just because AK didn't, doesn't mean something else couldn't (which is like saying one romantic comedy film bombs, no romantic comedy will ever be successful again).


ALL THAT SAID...I agree with "let's work on the parks we have". Both AK and MGM need major additions (major, e-tickets, multiple hopefully). MK will be looking pretty good after FLE, and of course there is always Epcot - some think it's perfect, some think it's a mess, but it's kind of always been that way in one fashion or another so it's kind of the grand-daddy stalewart.

MGM could blow IOA out of the water if they added a few more big rides - Lucasland (a Star Wars dark ride/restaurant, Indy), Muppet Studios with a big dark ride and some smaller stuff. That would be a hell of a park. At this pace, it will be 2030 before it happens, but it's one happy thought for me.

(AK, well, that place can use anything major, but since I'm not a really big fan to begin with I leave that blue sky wishing to others.)

I agree with you, BUT (there's always an Ursula-sized but) I think the HP example actually illustrates that Disney doesn't need a 5th gate. The average guest doesn't care about gates. They don't even understand them. Most don't know the difference between Disney and Universal. They have no idea Disney currently has 4 gates or what a 5th gate would even mean.

I remember when DAK opened. I hadn't been to Disney in years at the time. I was the fabled "average tourist". I didn't even realize Disney had a movie-themed park. I confused the heck out of MGM vs. Universal. When I saw commercials for DAK, I had no idea it was a 4th amusement park. None of that registered. I think that is the level of understanding for the average guest who has never been before.

With our deep level of understandinga round here, I think we take for granted a basic level of knowledge that isn't there among the general public.

Anyway, back to HP. The average person thinks HP is a theme park, not a land. If Disney put something on par with HP in one of their parks, they could get the benefit of a 5th gate without the drawbacks.

They could greatly expand Pixar Place and people would think it was a new Pixar park. Or Lucasland. Or anything at DAK. If they market a new land at one of these parks the way HP was marketed, they'd get the same bump as a 5th gate (as long as the expansion delivered the goods) without spreading their resources any thinner than they already are.

We're starting to get into Armchair Imagineering here, but I agree with pretty much everything that AEfx has said. A few days ago someone did a status update of rumors/fan boy dreams and I'd like to do something similar but pointing out the dead areas of parks, attractions that should be slated for demolition, and expansion pads.

Magic Kingdom
20K Leagues Under the Sea Area - In progress Fantasyland Expansion
Carousel of Progress/Tomorrowland Theater - Nothing imminent, latest rumor was Tron Coaster possibly in that area
Stitchs Great Escape/Monsters Inc Laugh Floor - Nothing imminent
Adventureland Expansion area - Nothing imminent
Frontierland Expansion area - Nothing imminent

Epcot
World Showcase Expansion areas - Brazil rumors
Wonders of Life/Universe of Energy areas - Nothing imminent
Imagination Pavilion area - Nothing imminent
The Odyssey - Nothing Imminent
Millennium Village

Hollywood Studios
Backlot Tour - Carsland Rumor, but not imminent
Vacant Pixar Place stage - Monsters Inc Coaster rumor
Expansion Area between Sunset Boulevard/Behind Animation Courtyard - Nothing imminent
Expansion Area behind Rock 'n' Roller Coaster
Sounds Dangerous - Jedi Training Academy expansion, but still just rumor
Sunset Boulevard expansion pads near Fantasmic/Beauty and the Beast

Animal Kingdom
Camp Minnie Mickey area - Plenty of rumors, nothing imminent
Dinorama - Fan boy optimism, but nothing imminent
Large expansion pad behind Kali River Rapids/Maharajah Jungle Trek - nothing imminent
Expansion Area between Expedition Everest/Finding Nemo - nothing imminent
Discovery River Boat Docks - nothing imminent

I'm sure I'm missing some things, but the fact of the matter is, there is plenty of useable space in the existing parks. I think that if 1/4 of these things have been addressed in the next 10 years I'd be surprised, but I also think that if 1/4 of these things have been addressed most of us would be quite satisfied with that level of attention.

Sad but true. How people can look at that and ask about a 5th gate is beyond me!

 

[flavious27]

Fortunately or unfortunately I think it is obvious these decisions come from Cali now. And Iger has said they are cutting back on capital expenditures for the short term at least.

What worries me even more though is that the better Universal does the better WDW does by inevitably getting some of those visitors and also from sales of Marvel merchandise. It doesn't even require any effort on the part of WDW. They really are in a winning position now and probably are not thinking beyond the current projects that are underway.

They seem to me to be in 'wait and see' mode.

Well disney has spent over 3 billion on dca and dcl in the last couple of years, so I can understand why Iger talks about cutting back, though it is shortsighted with the needs of wdw.

When Meg talks about IOA and wwhp being a draw for wdw, it is disheartening to see tdo wave the white flag.

 

[flavious27]

Funny, we skip AK because they don't have enough for our kids to do. We have young kids and are basically limited to shows, a playground, animal exhibits, meet and greets and one ride: the safari. We can do acceptable versions of most of those things at the local zoo. Every other park (even DHS) offers more for my kids to do than DAK.

Maybe they need to offer more for everyone. :shrug:

To my mind, DAK needs a dark ride (or several) more than anything. I'd rank the need for another thrill ride as pretty darn low. Although it would probably help if they fixed the yeti and the effects in Dinosaur.

Thrill rides bring in guests. Disney does make compelling dark rides that are better than what others can do, they just need to find a proper way to have showbuildings fit the theme of the lands.

Maybe you can elaborate. My experience with kids seems to be the exact opposite of yours. :shrug:

With just me and my wife, we are done dak by 3 or 4 pm. Now that we have a daughter, we will be in dak longer because we skip dinoland, camp mouse, other m&gs and the bug's life show. There are some rides she won't be able to ride, but the same is said about my wife that doesn't like coasters.

 

[flavious27]

What really baffles me is that we haven't seen an implementation of the Pooh's Hunny Hunt Technology in the states. The closest rumor I've heard is the Ratatouille Ride going to Disney Studios Paris and Paradise Pier.

I assume the reason behind this is that outside us fanboys it's a hard marketing sell unless it's attached to a hot franchise. But I point to one of John Lasseter's lines, "Quality is the best business plan."

We know what Imagineering is capable of. I'm not asking for an unrealistic pace for additions to the parks, but putting a little more trust, and a little more money in the capable hands of Imagineering can show Disney that WDW can still grow in attendance and profits.

I have heard that the ride system for hunny hunt cost alot to develop and implement, so that could be a reason that tdo would not want to use it instead of Omnimovers. I look at the ride system and theme being more of a draw than just a franchise slapped into a ride. Most of the rides and attractions that are the most popular are original, they aren't themed.

 

[flavious27]

The pooh's hunny hunt tech is something i have wanted at WDW since i first saw it i really think it could be used well with Tron. But its a dream. And another park is not the answer and until at least 2 of the current 4 "fill out" we will not see one.
Dont get me wrong i would love to see a new park but its not smart or logical for disney to spend the money on another park. They could take the say 750 million they would spend on another half day park and throw all that money at DHS!!! Then DHS would be amazing!

I think a billion would be just about enough to expand out dhs to about what we want and also get a land into dak.