LucasLand Blue Sky Rumor @ DHS

[herc]

more than any other wdw park? so the 4 are ee, kali, dino, P whirl?

MK: Space, Splash, Big Thunder, Barn Stormer with 7 dwarfs coming.

Epcot: Soarin, TT, M:S, Maelstrom

DHS: ToT, RnR, Star Tours, TSM

I don't agree with this about thrill rides.

DAK has three: EE, Kali, Dinosaur

Epcot has two: Test Track, M:S

DHS has three: ToT, RnR, Star Tours

MK has Splash Mtn., BTMR, Space Mtn.

It would be great if TDO would get off their pile o money and build a raft ride in Canada, something fantastic in Japan, Monsters Inc Door Coaster at DHS, Incredibles attraction at DHS, Tron attraction Somewhere, indoor attractions at DAK, some form of Beastly Kingdomme at DAK (seriously, FotLK is so out of place) move Buzz Lightyear to DHS in place of TLM, bring back the Hunchback show in the new enclosed theatre at DHS, help Brazil get their country built in Epcot, a futuristic sitdown restaurant in Tland, Casey Jr. Circus train in FLE, POTC character themed breakfast and/or dinner in Adv. Verandah, Toy Story character meal at DHS (you got three movies of characters to switch in and out), etc. etc. etc. Sorry for the digression, but just needed to vent a little.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Dinoland, camp mouse, its tough to be a bug; dak has plenty of ff attractions, they need attractions that thrill.

The shows are family friendly (Except Tough to be a Bug). Most of the rides are limiting in some way (mostly height requirement). Even the Safaris which is a family friendly ride is limiting to people with motion sickness.

I should clarify though, it needs more family friendly rides, not just attractions.

Whoa...what on Earth are you talking about?

If AK has four "thrill" rides, they must be real well hidden.

Everest, Primevil Whirl, Kali River, and Dinosaur. While the last three perhaps fail to deliver somewhat, I think they all qualify as thrill rides, or at least attempted thrill rides.

Epcot has three (Soarin, M;S, T:T).
DHS three (RnRC, ToT, Star Tours)
MK has three (the Mountains).

Pretty much. I would also argue that if Soarin' is considered a thrill ride so too should Kilimanjaro Safaris.

Well documented that Animal Kingdom initially cannibalized visitors from the other three parks. Overall annual attendance increases by about 3%.

This is something that I wrote a while ago:

Historically, when Disney had opened new theme parks there had been a degree of cannibalization with regards to attendance. That is to say that the new parks would take guests away from the old parks. To offset this cannibalization, Disney looked to add new attractions to its existing theme parks around the same time that Disney's Animal Kingdom opened. The hope was that guests would want to see all of the new things, and not skip over an existing park in lieu of seeing Disney's Animal Kingdom.

Test Track was supposed to open in Epcot, but was delayed.
David Copperfield's Magic Underground restaurant had financing issues and never wound up materializing.
And the Magic Kingdom never actually had a solid attraction in the works to open parallel with the Animal Kingdom.

Instead of having a new slate of attractions, Disney's Animal Kingdom opened without any competition for the other Disney theme parks. Had the additions to the other parks opened on time, Disney projected that attendance in the other parks would only decrease by 5% across the board. Because Disney failed to open these new attractions the actual numbers were more drastic:

• The Magic Kingdom's attendance decreased by 8%
• MGM Studios' attendance decreased by 9%
• Epcot's attendance decreased by 11%

The result of this attendance drop meant that the money that was earmarked for Beastly Kingdom was to be re-allocated into investments in the other 3 parks, and Beastly Kingdom would be put on hold.

Ultimately the Animal Kingdom increased overall attendance but not as quickly as initially planned.

Leave it to Tim to bring the discussion back to Animal Kingdom. Yeti will come up soon...

Ouch.

The park is in terrible need of indoor attractions...preferrably rides. Family friendly and thrill could be good. To me it doesn't matter when talking about Animal Kingdom...I just want to see more attractions indoors! It gets way too hot in central Florida not to have more at DAK.

I agree.

The World is near saturation. A new gate would mainly mean people spend less days at other parks. As happeend with DAK.

No, the only way to improve the parks is stop living off the cash-making legacy and regularly invest in the existing parks like they used to. The Disney Decade was quite a flop, remember? Less than half of what was planned was built.

I don't buy that Disney World is near it's saturation or the mature stage. Attendance increases at theme parks when marquee attractions are built. Every park at WDW has room for new additions, while the family vacation may not be extended longer than 5-7 days, new attractions can bring more people to the parks - not just the same people staying longer.

DAK found almost 10 million annual guests, guests had to extend some time in the park. I just think it is families that are the main groups at dak instead of childless groups.

A 5th gate would appeal to everyone, if done right. I like the idea of Disney's Land of Imagination, where the lands are based on literature, comic books and graphic novels. With that theme, the lands could be based on marvel, lotr, and american tall tales.

Expanding the current parks will be cheaper and will bring in more guests, but a new gate also brings new hotels and themes.

I think that the only way to fulfill the need to improve the parks and add something fresh, it to have another disney decade.

I think most people start their day at the Animal Kingdom because it's not open late. I don't think the total time spent for those 10 million people is equal across all of the parks. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the way the attendance is counted/estiamted is the first park that's visited on any given day.

 

[juniorthomas]

Pizza Planet right now has to move over to Pixar Place. It isn't in the right area now. Then that building could be converted to a Muppet Restaurant. There should really be one more Muppet attraction and a restaurant. It would really work in that area.

I'm just hoping Pixar Place finally adds the Monsters Inc. Door Coaster everyone has been talking about. There is so much that area can get to make it a destination park. TDO needs to get off their fannies and put some serious bucks in the parks. They are doing it with FLE, but more needs to be done.
Complacency should not be toleraded. Yes, we all know that the world goes to WDW. But more is needed.

Agreed. They need to move it to Pixar Place and Lasseter has to go nuts and actually make them turn it into the real Pizza Planet. The version that exists now is just silly.

 

[the-reason14]

Agreed. They need to move it to Pixar Place and Lasseter has to go nuts and actually make them turn it into the real Pizza Planet. The version that exists now is just silly.

Agreed!! It's basically a regular arcade with Toy Story stuff littered all over. I want one straight from the film!!!

 

[flavious27]

You think, or have proof?

Of course it would. As do the exisiting 4th gates. Any themed park built by anyone in a tourist mecca would fail if it didn`t appeal across the board.

The World is near saturation. A new gate would mainly mean people spend less days at other parks. As happeend with DAK.

No, the only way to improve the parks is stop living off the cash-making legacy and regularly invest in the existing parks like they used to. The Disney Decade was quite a flop, remember? Less than half of what was planned was built.

Well being that I said think... There are sections of the park that only appeals to families and children. Also, dak is a zoo or really a large amount of the land is a zoo. Who do you think mostly goes to zoos, families or childless couples and teenagers.

So DCA didn't fail? :wave: Just having an amusement park in a tourist area, with appealing themes sometimes times is enough but sometimes it is not. Look at the dismal way Universal has been through the years, they barely had a profit in 2009. A 5th gate can be successful if the themes and theming are done right, with attractions that appeal to everyone, not just families.

I really don't think that wdw is over saturated, disney is not really repeating any of the same concepts over again in any of its 4 gates. If Dak is really stealing guests from other parks, its attendance would show that; dak is the 4th gate, with the 4th most guests. As long as disney maintains its gates and gives guests reasons to go to each gate, tdo is doing their job.

There was much that was promised in the disney decade that we did not get, but we did get much more in that time than we have gotten in the last decade. TDO needs a shot in the arm, and then a set schedule of adding new attractions in every gate.

 

[AEfx]

Everest, Primevil Whirl, Kali River, and Dinosaur. While the last three perhaps fail to deliver somewhat, I think they all qualify as thrill rides, or at least attempted thrill rides.

Epcot has three (Soarin, M;S, T:T).
DHS three (RnRC, ToT, Star Tours)
MK has three (the Mountains).

LOL, OK, I can sort of see that.

All I could think of is Dinosaur and Everest. Truth be told, I forgot about Kali for the moment. The Whirl coaster thing - that's a stretch, I think that's more of a kiddie ride to be perfectly honest. Yes, height restriction...but I'd have a hard time terming it "thrill".

As you pointed out, though, those rides aren't all the greatest. Everest - broken. Kali - OK, but way too short (after I did the Redwood one at DCA I swear it was one of the only attractions that I wholeheartedly agreed with the "theirs is better" mantra). I love Dinosaur (sometimes it's the only attraction I go to the park to do) but when the effects are so often off and broken it gets kind of irritating.

AK just needs some big work. That's all I know.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

No offence but thats fan boy wishful thinking. Disney's primary objective is to satisfy its shareholders. Building a park would take significantly more resources purely to operate the back ground functions before you even start to look at servicing guest expectations. Thats all money gone from the bottom line. Where are they going to generate an extra 20K guests a day from? Based on current trends you would have to build most of that from domestic visitors, and thats a whole extra set of non income generating infrastructure you now have to maintain while your existing parks age and increase their maintenance costs.

Nice idea but poorly thought out.

 

[flavious27]

An onsite hotel would increase traffic/congestion too

True, E BV Drive will be busier with guests entering and exiting the hotel. I also think that with the limited space, that this hotel would be completely valet parking.

 

[flavious27]

I'm sure they're aware of that. It's as early a thought as transportation would be.

Well it seems like they forget that cloning and franchise theming existing attractions looks cheap and that it lower guests' satisfaction.

 

[flavious27]

I know they thought Everest would put DAK on the map but the park still needs a new land with an E Ticket to do that.

I am hoping that if they do indeed put Brazil in WS it would not keep them from adding a South America area possibly with a rain forest habitat trail to DAK. An MI type portion could be blended into such a land rather easily.



Sorrry but BS, 7DMT and PW are not thrill rides. :lol:

As I have said before, if there are funds for thrill rides they should go to DAK first and then DHS.

If PW is a thrill ride, I can classify atleast one other ride from each of the other gates as a thrill ride.

Agree that dak needs more help than the other gates, disney should work to make dak's hours extended without peta protesting about the animals.

 

[flavious27]

Pizza Planet right now has to move over to Pixar Place. It isn't in the right area now. Then that building could be converted to a Muppet Restaurant. There should really be one more Muppet attraction and a restaurant. It would really work in that area.

I'm just hoping Pixar Place finally adds the Monsters Inc. Door Coaster everyone has been talking about. There is so much that area can get to make it a destination park. TDO needs to get off their fannies and put some serious bucks in the parks. They are doing it with FLE, but more needs to be done.
Complacency should not be toleraded. Yes, we all know that the world goes to WDW. But more is needed.

tdo and disney needs to feed the cash cow or it dies. disney can't let a park sit without new attractions like universal did with ioa.

 

[flavious27]

I don't agree with this about thrill rides.

DAK has three: EE, Kali, Dinosaur

Epcot has two: Test Track, M:S

DHS has three: ToT, RnR, Star Tours

MK has Splash Mtn., BTMR, Space Mtn.

It would be great if TDO would get off their pile o money and build a raft ride in Canada, something fantastic in Japan, Monsters Inc Door Coaster at DHS, Incredibles attraction at DHS, Tron attraction Somewhere, indoor attractions at DAK, some form of Beastly Kingdomme at DAK (seriously, FotLK is so out of place) move Buzz Lightyear to DHS in place of TLM, bring back the Hunchback show in the new enclosed theatre at DHS, help Brazil get their country built in Epcot, a futuristic sitdown restaurant in Tland, Casey Jr. Circus train in FLE, POTC character themed breakfast and/or dinner in Adv. Verandah, Toy Story character meal at DHS (you got three movies of characters to switch in and out), etc. etc. etc. Sorry for the digression, but just needed to vent a little.

this is the only place that we really get to vent.

tdo needs a shot in the arm to elevate wdw, so that it raises the bar again. and they need to stay on top of maintaining and adding new.

the economy is starting to pick up steam again and wdw's largest competitor is getting the buzz, they need steal the spotlight away like obama did to trump.

 

[flavious27]

The shows are family friendly (Except Tough to be a Bug). Most of the rides are limiting in some way (mostly height requirement). Even the Safaris which is a family friendly ride is limiting to people with motion sickness.

I should clarify though, it needs more family friendly rides, not just attractions.

I think they need a balance, and there is not one. If SA gets built, there should be a FF ride part of it. Even something like a dark ride that focuses on the penguins in SA.

I don't buy that Disney World is near it's saturation or the mature stage. Attendance increases at theme parks when marquee attractions are built. Every park at WDW has room for new additions, while the family vacation may not be extended longer than 5-7 days, new attractions can bring more people to the parks - not just the same people staying longer.

Agreed, wdw still has lots of land and much more ideas and themes that can be used for new gates and hotels. They just need to cultivate the image that families need to go to wdw more often. There are over 300 million people that live in the US, wdw has alot more guests out there that can take that vacation at the happiest place on earth.

I think most people start their day at the Animal Kingdom because it's not open late. I don't think the total time spent for those 10 million people is equal across all of the parks. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the way the attendance is counted/estiamted is the first park that's visited on any given day.

True, I doubt that any of the other gates have guests stay longer than MK.

 

[flavious27]

Agreed. They need to move it to Pixar Place and Lasseter has to go nuts and actually make them turn it into the real Pizza Planet. The version that exists now is just silly.

What, silly. It is not like we know what the inside of a pizza planet actually looks like, oh wait...

 

[flavious27]

No offence but thats fan boy wishful thinking. Disney's primary objective is to satisfy its shareholders. Building a park would take significantly more resources purely to operate the back ground functions before you even start to look at servicing guest expectations. Thats all money gone from the bottom line. Where are they going to generate an extra 20K guests a day from? Based on current trends you would have to build most of that from domestic visitors, and thats a whole extra set of non income generating infrastructure you now have to maintain while your existing parks age and increase their maintenance costs.

Nice idea but poorly thought out.

Extra 20k guests a day, do what walt did, advertise and showcase the new attractions, rides and hotels through ABC. Do what you can to use your own resources to get interest into the parks.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Extra 20k guests a day, do what walt did, advertise and showcase the new attractions, rides and hotels through ABC. Do what you can to use your own resources to get interest into the parks.

You are talking in the region of 20% - 25%increase of additional visitors. I know they are expanding fantasy land just didnt realise you were a resident.

For a fraction of the cost of a new park they could expand and improve existing offerings that while may offer more modest growth would deliver a better margin as there is limited impact on overheads. Its all about the money.

 

[flavious27]

You are talking in the region of 20% - 25%increase of additional visitors. I know they are expanding fantasy land just didnt realise you were a resident.

For a fraction of the cost of a new park they could expand and improve existing offerings that while may offer more modest growth would deliver a better margin as there is limited impact on overheads. Its all about the money.

7.3 million guests. say half are going to be people already in the parks.

3.65 million guests then. you could knock off 650k in local residents with great ticket packages for a new park.

3 million left then to get, 1% of the population of the country or about so 750k families a year or 2k families a day to visit the new gate. Tie in offers to disney and pixar movies, you can get a good chunk of that. Have ESPN and the cowboys sponsor a few weeks of their training camp at wide world of sports, more non wdw families attending. Then setup offers with marvel movie premiers and their comics to get those fans.

Disney has a large amount of reach in this country that they can use to fill up a new gate. 20k a day, they could do it.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Then you are already diluting the income to your existing parks whos costs are increasing as with age comes increased maintenance, which costs.

Every step you have just mentioned erodes margin making it less palatable for shareholders. Universal have proven that a well themed land can deliver big returns for a fraction of the cost of a new gate.

 

[flavious27]

Then you are already diluting the income to your existing parks whos costs are increasing as with age comes increased maintenance, which costs.

Every step you have just mentioned erodes margin making it less palatable for shareholders. Universal have proven that a well themed land can deliver big returns for a fraction of the cost of a new gate.

It really won't dilute the income of the other parks unless disney does not put any money into the other parks while a new gate is being built. they screwed it up with dak, they won't do that again.

IOA is not a case study to be compared to wdw, unless it is what happens when you don't do anything but maintain a park.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

It really won't dilute the income of the other parks unless disney does not put any money into the other parks while a new gate is being built. they screwed it up with dak, they won't do that again.

IOA is not a case study to be compared to wdw, unless it is what happens when you don't do anything but maintain a park.

You must have missed the last 12 months at IOA then, or are you Jt in disguise?
The economic principle is obviously too big a concept for you to grasp so Ill keep this simple. Just because you keep repeating the same mantra doesnt make it workable. Disney currently has two half day parks, a park that has seen no major addition for nearly 20 years, and two more till it gets one, and the final park that is only operating 3/4 of its area due to shuttered attractions, yet you declare that they wont repeat the mistakes of 12 years ago? They havent stopped making it!

You sir are talking utter mince.
Consolidation before expansion makes sense on every level, unless your a ubber fan.