Yes, but they fix cars after a fender bender.
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Long live the Eastern Gateway or how I learned to love the Anaheim City Council after the election.
- Thread starter truecoat
- Start date
Yes, but they fix cars after a fender bender.
Here is what Disney isn't telling you about the Eastern Gateway:
It is a way for them to justify removing all teams and shuttles to and from all parking lots, including Mickey and Friends.
We already know they don't plan on running a tram from the Eastern Gateway, but the distance from parking to the front entrance will be similar to what the Mickey and Friends parking is. Mark my words if the Eastern Gateway ever happens, the Mickey and Friends tram dies about 6 months to a year later.
Then in another 6 months or so they will justify getting rid of the buses to Toy Story if it is still a parking lot. After a few more months they will say since no disabled guests can't get a ride to the entrance, they no longer have to run a disabled shuttle.
Don't believe me? Look at all other major theme parks in Southern California, they already did precisely this. Knott's, Universal and SeaWorld no longer have any parking shuttles.
And ultimately if Disney does away with shuttles for those who are disabled, it essentially shuts them out from being able to go to the parks, which is something Disney has been making quite clear they would love to accomplish if pesky things like the ADA didn't get in the way. Seriously, there is absolutely no reason that all of the following attractions couldn't have had a wheelchair vehicle:
The Eastern Gateway has very little to do with needing more parking and a lot to do with trying to get rid of disabled guests, so the Eastern Gateway needs to die a fast and painful and permanet death.
It is a way for them to justify removing all teams and shuttles to and from all parking lots, including Mickey and Friends.
We already know they don't plan on running a tram from the Eastern Gateway, but the distance from parking to the front entrance will be similar to what the Mickey and Friends parking is. Mark my words if the Eastern Gateway ever happens, the Mickey and Friends tram dies about 6 months to a year later.
Then in another 6 months or so they will justify getting rid of the buses to Toy Story if it is still a parking lot. After a few more months they will say since no disabled guests can't get a ride to the entrance, they no longer have to run a disabled shuttle.
Don't believe me? Look at all other major theme parks in Southern California, they already did precisely this. Knott's, Universal and SeaWorld no longer have any parking shuttles.
And ultimately if Disney does away with shuttles for those who are disabled, it essentially shuts them out from being able to go to the parks, which is something Disney has been making quite clear they would love to accomplish if pesky things like the ADA didn't get in the way. Seriously, there is absolutely no reason that all of the following attractions couldn't have had a wheelchair vehicle:
- Flights of Passage (yes, the effects would be a little different and the floor moves, but it doesn't move any more than say the floor during the earthquake portion of the tram ride at Universal Studios and it allows wheelchairs on it)
- Navi River Journey
- Rise of the Resistance (there might be one thing they would have to tweak, but it could have been done)
- Mickey and Minnies Runaway Railway
The Eastern Gateway has very little to do with needing more parking and a lot to do with trying to get rid of disabled guests, so the Eastern Gateway needs to die a fast and painful and permanet death.
NobodyElse
Well-Known Member
Is this what Disney told you?
No, it is painfully obvious to anyone who is paying close enough attention to what Disney has been doing and what other theme parks have done.
The Eastern Gateway is very dangerous and not just because it will kill the businesses on Harbor, there is far more at stake here than anyone realizes and it important that it dies and dies fast.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Interesting take.
But are you actually sure of the distance? From the unbuilt Pumbaa parking structure to the front gate is a shorter walk than the walking distance from M&Fs tram loading to the front gate. Check your actually walking distance......
Also two of the rides you mentioned are in WDW and has nothing to do with ADA in DLR. And one ride is not even built yet at DLR, so you don't know what ADA they will have setup. I believe Rise is completely ADA compliant at DLR.
Additionally all new attractions built in DLR are ADA compliant, for example all of DCA's attractions are ADA compliant including the queues. So I'm not sure what you're talking about Disney making it intentionally harder for disabled guests. And while the new Pixar structure had a weird setup initially for disabled guests, I haven't heard much complaint since it opened in this regards. Has it changed or is it still the same?
Disney Irish
Premium Member
This sounds more like you reading into things that are likely not true. Without proof this is just your opinion, not "painfully obvious". This is just like all the people over the last week thinking there is some dark reasons for Iger stepping down, when its more likely an early execution of an established succession plan that wasn't made public.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
How many spaces are required by Chapter 5? Demonstrating compliance with the California Building Standards Code, including Chapter 11B, is required to receive a building permit.
Then get Disney to guarantee shuttles for all from ALL parking areas for the next 50 years at minimum or else the gateway needs to die. It is no secret that they have wanted to get rid of the teams for some time now and have even toyed with doing so on occasions, in the guise of it being super crowded on New Year's Eve, etc.
It depends on the total number of spaces, but as far as I have been able to see they didn't add any additional true ADA spaces with the new structure, just relocated some despite adding a substantial number of new parking spaces. I also have yet to see any EV charging spaces that are dedicated ADA spaces which is now required as well.
And some spaces they count as ADA spaces don't really count as they aren't wide enough and others that are on upper floors technically aren't supposed to be counted, but there are sometimes exceptions made on that one.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Disney has toyed with many ideas over the whole history of DLR. Just because they have toyed with ideas doesn't mean they will execute said idea. For example how many times have we heard ideas for attractions that never came to fruition?
Also it makes no sense to run a shuttle for the very short distance of the EGW. The bridge will have a very slow gradual slope that will be ADA complaint. So doesn't make sense to run a shuttle there.
The plan at this point as presented (until a new plan is introduced) was that all Toy Story buses and shuttles would be dropping off into the new travel hub at the EGW. And that M&F trams would continue (even though there were rumors of them looking at maybe stopping them). And if they remove the trams for M&F then they will likely have some alternative for disabled guests.
The issue isn't with the short distance from the front of the structure, but fro the person who maybe has issues with super long distances, but doesn't need a disabled placard that inevitably gets parked in the furthest corner of the structure and that WILL happen. It is the same issue I have with the current structure, only this is worse because there will be no shuttle available to this person, as only those with disabled placards will be able to use the disabled shuttles from the Eastern Gateway. And Disney has made it abundantly clear that they really don't want disabled guests in the parks through their current actions, despite their words saying differently.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I'm not sure where you're getting your information. But at this point you're mind is made up that Disney has it out for all guests that are not sized 0 and able to walk long distances.
The distance even from the farthest point in the structure I believe is still closer than any distance close or far from M&F or Toy Story. So if that is a distance that someone cannot walk then there are two other parking areas with shuttles, buses, or trams that can meet their needs. Or if someone has an issue walking the distance from the furthest parking spot to the front gate then they can always bring an EV with them and use. Disney provides plenty of alternatives for all guests whether disabled or not. The one thing to remember is that Disney tries to make sure all guests are treated the same and fairly. They cannot however provide someone who isn't disabled special treatment just because they can't walk long distances. At some point personal responsibility has to take over. No one likes walking long distances, and everyone wants front row parking.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
In order to receive a building permit for a parking facility you must include a table showing the number of spaces, the number of required accessible spaces and the number of provided spaces. You must then also draw every space, label the accessible space and show the required accessible route. Even if the city reviewer does not catch this, Disney is still liable under state and federal law. A contractor who follows instructions to ignore the code and does so is also liable.
California is not Florida. Spaces for cars are only required to be 108” (9’-0”) wide.
There is no prohibition on spaces on upper floors. The issue is distance.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
As someone who is on the larger side and who brought someone who was disabled with them to the parks in the last couple years, I can say that is absolutely an incorrect assessment. My family member who was disabled at the time due to back surgery was treated with the same respect and service as someone who was upwardly mobile. We received all the same services in both DL and DCA as anyone else. DCA was easy as it was built with ADA in mind. All the attractions allowed for my family to go on everything and be part of the experience.
So I'm not sure why you have your beliefs. But my first hand experience on this matter completely is the opposite to your opinion. I'm sorry you feel this way, but Disney is not out to get anyone disabled or not. Sure things are not perfect, but nothing in life is perfect.
Also think about it this way, why would Disney want to eliminate a source of revenue? That makes absolutely no sense and I'm sure shareholders would have an unfavorable opinion of the company if your statement was found to be true. Funny things happen to companies that eliminate a whole source of revenue, they tend to go out of business. Disney isn't stupid, they just are going to get rid of all disabled guests to "make it easier on themselves". That would be business suicide. Business 101 don't pi$$ off the investors (shareholders).
Disney Irish
Premium Member
And one other thing comes to mind, I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about ADA. ADA means to provide the same access for persons who are disabled not special access. A lot of people, including some who are disabled, think that ADA means you get special access or privileges and that is just wrong.
A long as Disney is providing the same access for a disabled person as they are an able bodied person then they are ADA compliant. Obviously there are a few more provisions they must follow, but you get the idea.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Here is the issue with that argument, especially considering there is a current lawsuit regarding persons with autism. The lawsuit claims that Disney (specifically in WDW not related to DLR) with the updated DAS program makes guests "wait too long" because they are issued a return time. Well how long is "too long". It appears that anything short of immediate is too long. Well if you have everyone who use the DAS program get immediate access the rest of the guests suffer. And then you have the problem of how to distribute DAS if everyone claims to be "on the spectrum". Disney can't prevent someone from having a meltdown because they have wait. What about all those other guests who might not be on the spectrum who have a meltdown because they have to wait? Should they have been given a DAS card too to prevent the meltdown? Its a slippery slope and the reason Disney changed the DAS program, too much potential for abuse as no one wants to wait in line.
The point of the argument still relies on compliance with the law. Disney believe it isn’t violating any law; however, this will be harder to prove if they are actually violating law by not complying with ADA with regard to disabled guests.