Long live the Eastern Gateway or how I learned to love the Anaheim City Council after the election.

[WDW Pro]

This is where I would say that @Darkbeer1 has a better insight into the political climate and inner workings of the TDA and Anaheim working relationship.

TDA at this point would likely be better off using the land for a future 4 Diamond hotel than trying to save it for some wishful thinking 3rd gate in some very distance future that'll likely never come. So if that means some horse trading going on with carving out some of TS lot for a Gene Autry passthru in order to get the rezoning and permitting completed for the rest to be a hotel. Then TDA would be stupid not to do it.

Walt always wanted more land, not less. Walt always wanted canvas for the future. I think Walt was right.

 

[TROR]

Wasting valuable land on short term profit? Classic Disney.

 

[Disney Irish]

Walt always wanted more land, not less. Walt always wanted canvas for the future. I think Walt was right.

Different business climate than 1955. Also Anaheim is not the same small Orange Grove town it was in 1955. Too many obstacles standing in the way for that to happen now. You could have the best political climate in the world and still nothing could happen. Because you have to have a willing seller for land to become available for Disney to buy. Eminent domain only gets you so far, the rest has to be from a willing seller. Not too many of those around Anaheim at this point.

Also if Disney was really that interesting in buying up land they could have bought Garden Walk any of the times it was for sale over the last decade. They didn't so obviously they aren't really that interested in doing land deals in Anaheim.

 

[TROR]

Different business climate than 1955. Also Anaheim is not the same small Orange Grove town it was in 1955. Too many obstacles standing in the way for that to happen now. You could have the best political climate in the world and still nothing could happen. Because you have to have a willing seller for land to become available for Disney to buy. Eminent domain only gets you so far, the rest has to be from a willing seller. Not too many of those around Anaheim at this point.

Also if Disney was really that interesting in buying up land they could have bought Garden Walk any of the times it was for sale over the last decade. They didn't so obviously they aren't really that interested in doing land deals in Anaheim.

I still have yet to see how not buying Garden Walk has benefited Disney in anyway.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The biggest hurdle to a third gate is Disney. There is no way they can justify the absurd cost that a new park would require without a third-party footing most of the bill. Even after spending billions of dollars the park would still be severely under built.

 

[Disney Irish]

I still have yet to see how not buying Garden Walk has benefited Disney in anyway.

I personally think they should have bought it, and then just sat on it. Let some management company run it while deals get worked out with the other Harbor businesses for buying out land.

But like I said if Disney was really wanting to expand that badly in Anaheim they would have done something like that. But they didn't so they obviously aren't really all that interested in expanding in Anaheim, not at least beyond the footprint they already have. Iger has pretty much already stated as much.

 

[Disney Irish]

The biggest hurdle to a third gate is Disney. There is no way they can justify the absurd cost that a new park would require without a third-party footing most of the bill. Even after spending billions of dollars the park would still be severely under built.

This I agree with. They'd want to partner with someone to offset the cost, and there aren't many willing to foot the bill for a US based theme park in 2019/2020.

 

[TROR]

I personally think they should have bought it, and then just sat on it. Let some management company run it while deals get worked out with the other Harbor businesses for buying out land.

But like I said if Disney was really wanting to expand that badly in Anaheim they would have done something like that. But they didn't so they obviously aren't really all that interested in expanding in Anaheim, not at least beyond the footprint they already have. Iger has pretty much already stated as much.

More realistically I think Disney is short sighted. They have no current plans on building a third gate, not realizing anything can change with management. Then when plans do change they'll do whatever they can to buy AGW.

 

[Disney Irish]

More realistically I think Disney is short sighted. They have no current plans on building a third gate, not realizing anything can change with management. Then when plans do change they'll do whatever they can to buy AGW.

Except they'd likely never get a better price than was just sold in February, less than $.50 on the dollar out of bankruptcy. You don't need an MBA to see it was basically a steal for what the land would really be worth to Disney.

So no that isn't Disney being shortsighted, that is Disney basically saying they aren't interested in expanding. It was either in this thread or one of the other EGW threads where I believe Darkbeer said that Disney looked at buying GW every time it was up for sale, and said no.

 

[TROR]

Except they'd likely never get a better price than was just sold in February, less than $.50 on the dollar out of bankruptcy. You don't need an MBA to see it was basically a steal for what the land would really be worth to Disney.

So no that isn't Disney being shortsighted, that is Disney basically saying they aren't interested in expanding. It was either in this thread or one of the other EGW threads where I believe Darkbeer said that Disney looked at buying GW every time it was up for sale, and said no.

We all know Disney isn't currently planning to expand, that's why they're being shortsighted. Plans change as management changes. When the time comes for a third park, whenever that may be, management will be unhappy about Disney never having bought AGW.

 

[Disney Irish]

We all know Disney isn't currently planning to expand, that's why they're being shortsighted. Plans change as management changes. When the time comes for a third park, whenever that may be, management will be unhappy about Disney never having bought AGW.

Need to change that to "If the time comes for a third park". Also you're making an assumption that any future management would want to expand in Anaheim and not somewhere else. Costs are only going to go up not down, so if its not attractive to do so today it'll likely be even less attractive to do so in 10-30 years.

 

[mickEblu]

The wheels of Government move slowly. Disney will address the current slow period. Looks like it is grin and bear it until September, then if the AP's don't solve the current slow period, Disney is preparing marketing (aka discounts and similar things) to get the foot traffic. Halloween and Christmas are coming soon.

As for a third gate, based on what Josh D'Amaro has said in conversations I have been part of, it is not on his radar. The Eastern Gateway, and getting Toy Story zoned for parking, to replace the current temporary permit expiring shortly. And the door is open for compromise. Who knows, maybe he gets an open zoning in return for the Gene Autry access. But if anything, sounds like Hotels. Maybe a 4 Diamond that helps both the Convention Center and DLR guests on the west end.

As for a Third Gate, due to costs on many levels, California is not on TWDC radar for a new park.

So what would the Eastern Gateway mean for DCA? A bigger Marvel Land or a new land? If it’s the former, I’m not excited. Since they have room for the Avengers coaster behind GOTG:MB, it would smart of them to use that area for a new land.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

So no that isn't Disney being shortsighted, that is Disney basically saying they aren't interested in expanding.

It's been pretty obvious to me since all the hoopla settled down after the DLR expansion in 2001 and DCA struggled to get it's footing that Disney's strategy no longer includes a strong commitment to investing in Anaheim, at least not to the extent that it has been elsewhere.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's been pretty obvious to me since all the hoopla settled down after the DLR expansion in 2001 and DCA struggled to get it's footing that Disney's strategy no longer includes a strong commitment to investing in Anaheim, at least not to the extent that it has been elsewhere.

It just means they decided to invest in using the existing footprint they already have. Adding more gates is not they only way for investment.

 

[DanielBB8]

Except they'd likely never get a better price than was just sold in February, less than $.50 on the dollar out of bankruptcy. You don't need an MBA to see it was basically a steal for what the land would really be worth to Disney.

So no that isn't Disney being shortsighted, that is Disney basically saying they aren't interested in expanding. It was either in this thread or one of the other EGW threads where I believe Darkbeer said that Disney looked at buying GW every time it was up for sale, and said no.

I thought we discussed this before. Anaheim GardenWalk will be under the terms of the new proposition that just passed that will force all businesses that receive Anaheim subsidies to pay higher than minimum wage (at least $18 an hour). Buying AGW will force the entire Disneyland Resort to pay $18 an hour for new workers. This is why it is not shortsighted for Disney to avoid buying any property that already received subsidies.

It is also past time that Disney considered a third park. The economics just doesn't work. Disney is wary of Anaheim city politics that can turn any agreement into nothing. That's why they cancelled their 4th hotel. If a 4th hotel isn't economically feasible, a 3rd park definitely isn't especially with how they botched Star Wars Land. It wouldn't be the first time Disney botched a project like the original California Adventure, Hong Kong Disneyland, and both Paris parks.

 

[Disney Irish]

I thought we discussed this before. Anaheim GardenWalk will be under the terms of the new proposition that just passed that will force all businesses that receive Anaheim subsidies to pay higher than minimum wage (at least $18 an hour). Buying AGW will force the entire Disneyland Resort to pay $18 an hour for new workers. This is why it is not shortsighted for Disney to avoid buying any property that already received subsidies.

That was only this last time around, they could have picked it up so many other times before that. This is not the first time its been up for sale in the last decade.

It is also past time that Disney considered a third park. The economics just doesn't work. Disney is wary of Anaheim city politics that can turn any agreement into nothing. That's why they cancelled their 4th hotel. If a 4th hotel isn't economically feasible, a 3rd park definitely isn't especially with how they botched Star Wars Land. It wouldn't be the first time Disney botched a project like the original California Adventure, Hong Kong Disneyland, and both Paris parks.

A 4th hotel is inevitable its just a matter of when and under what circumstances. As mentioned before Disney and Anaheim can do a little horse trading to both get what they want, Disney with the 4th hotel and Anaheim with the passthru for Gene Autry Way. Its just a matter of the right deal for both parties.

 

[DanielBB8]

That was only this last time around, they could have picked it up so many other times before that. This is not the first time its been up for sale in the last decade.

This would have been a bad idea because the proposition would automatically bind Disney retroactively to the new wage agreement because it received subsidies. Disney avoided a trap.

A 4th hotel is inevitable its just a matter of when and under what circumstances. As mentioned before Disney and Anaheim can do a little horse trading to both get what they want, Disney with the 4th hotel and Anaheim with the passthru for Gene Autry Way. Its just a matter of the right deal for both parties.

Don't be so sure. I already said a new Anaheim City Council can renege on an agreement like they did when Mayor Tait wanted to wiggle out of the agreement because Disney wanted to move the hotel a few hundred yards south. He successful got the city lawyer to agree with him. Anaheim can use any legal remedy to do it's will. So Disney has to be absolutely sure it wants to build and do it without hesitation. That hesitation delayed future plans. The Anaheim District plans has been sitting on the books for nearly 20 years and Disney haven't done much with it. They have a 5,400 hotel room allotment. They are well below 2,000 rooms on Disney property.

There's just less incentive to build because Disney missed it's opportunity. They better beware because Orange County is becoming less pro business with more Democrats taking over. Disney is now quite a liberal corporation so they deserve anything that's coming their way.

 

[Disney Irish]

This would have been a bad idea because the proposition would automatically bind Disney retroactively to the new wage agreement because it received subsidies. Disney avoided a trap.

You don't know what would have happened, history may not have played out the same way had Disney bought AGW many years ago.

The point I was making originally was if Disney had wanted to they could have bought it many times in the past. They didn't so that is a big indication that at least for now they aren't looking to expand the current footprint of the parks beyond what is already owned.

Don't be so sure. I already said a new Anaheim City Council can renege on an agreement like they did when Mayor Tait wanted to wiggle out of the agreement because Disney wanted to move the hotel a few hundred yards south. He successful got the city lawyer to agree with him. Anaheim can use any legal remedy to do it's will. So Disney has to be absolutely sure it wants to build and do it without hesitation. That hesitation delayed future plans. The Anaheim District plans has been sitting on the books for nearly 20 years and Disney haven't done much with it. They have a 5,400 hotel room allotment. They are well below 2,000 rooms on Disney property.

There's just less incentive to build because Disney missed it's opportunity. They better beware because Orange County is becoming less pro business with more Democrats taking over. Disney is now quite a liberal corporation so they deserve anything that's coming their way.

You're making assumptions. Darkbeer has already indicated that Josh D (Prez of DLR) is looking at possibly using things like Toy Story lot for a future hotel. So its still on TDA radar to add another hotel.

 

[DanielBB8]

You don't know what would have happened, history may not have played out the same way had Disney bought AGW many years ago.

The point I was making originally was if Disney had wanted to they could have bought it many times in the past. They didn't so that is a big indication that at least for now they aren't looking to expand the current footprint of the parks beyond what is already owned.

I'm not making it up. Proposition supporters were examining the Mickey & Friends parking lot funding to see if it somehow binded Disney to the new hourly wage. The funding was federal grant, not a city subsidy so Disney dodged it.

Your point was well taken, but there are many other reasons to avoid it today.

You're making assumptions. Darkbeer has already indicated that Josh D (Prez of DLR) is looking at possibly using things like Toy Story lot for a future hotel. So its still on TDA radar to add another hotel.

I would wonder why build on Toy Story Lot when there's already space on Simba and North Downtown Disney parking lot. Disney has a 5,400 hotel room allotment on it's existing property on the West. What happened to their threat to build at Garden Grove? Disappeared apparently.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm not making it up. Proposition supporters were examining the Mickey & Friends parking lot funding to see if it somehow binded Disney to the new hourly wage. The funding was federal grant, not a city subsidy so Disney dodged it.

Your point was well taken, but there are many other reasons to avoid it today.

I'm not saying you made it up. All I was saying is you don't know how things would have played out. For example say Disney had bought AGW back in 2010 when it was in foreclosure. No guarantee that the union push to still have the wage initiative or even to include AGW. Point is that things could have played out very differently, we'll never know.

I would wonder why build on Toy Story Lot when there's already space on Simba and North Downtown Disney parking lot. Disney has a 5,400 hotel room allotment on it's existing property on the West. What happened to their threat to build at Garden Grove? Disappeared apparently.

I don't think any option is off the table. However its the right deal that would make one particular property over the other more attractive for a hotel. For example as Darkbeer indicated the primary goal right now is to turn the temp-permit on Toy Story lot into a permanent one, and I would assume they'd also want to change the land use also. Anaheim wants to push through Gene Autry to the Convention Center, so again as I mentioned before a little horse trading could mean both Disney and Anaheim get what they want.

As for Garden Grove, I would assume that is still in play, but maybe for a DVC mini-resort at this point. DVC is always looking to expand.