News Live-Action Ariel Meet and Greet at Disney’s Hollywood Studios

[MagicHappens1971]

This post is in no way disrespectful I welcome this type of discussion because I always like to better my understanding.

Let me try to answer this as best I can.

Merida does not have a mermaid tail so I wouldn’t assume that.

Black girl on Halloween-

So I know that on Halloween kids dress up as famous characters and since Ariel is the most famous mermaid ( I think ) at least to kids, I would be able to put 2 and 2 together instantly.

Like you said we use attributes to identify someone quickly. Skin color and hair are two huge identifiers.

I never paid close attention to her outfit or bra color or whatever.

White girl. Red hair. Tail.

That’s Ariel.

I guess I meant that most children when they dress up as Ariel do it with a dress, since it’s not feasible to walk in a mermaid tail.

EDIT: There are mermaid costumes, and that was my mistake, but the same argument applies.

Now pre 1989, a girl dressed as a mermaid wouldn’t have been Ariel. She didn’t exist, now in 2023, it will be interesting to see If Disney sells two different Ariel costumes for Halloween, one more similar to her cartoon version, and another more inspired by the live action.

I think that what most of us that are in the camp that Ariel can be any race are saying, is that we identify characters by their attributes, and that unless their race is central to their character, like Tiana or Black Panther, it isn’t super important who portrays them, as long as they do the role justice.

 

[James Alucobond]

By her costume and attributes. The argument isn't that any old mermaid can be Ariel, but that Ariel herself can take different guises, including in terms of race. So far, Disney has given us two movie versions of the character. Both have red(dish) hair, turquoise tails, and purple bras. Both are recognisable as Ariel.

I agree with this general sentiment. These characters are designed to be easily discernible by color and silhouette, and they should be accessible to anyone.

However, I would say that I think most people are responding to a sense of exclusion rather than loss when they react negatively to things like this. In your example of Halloween costumes, it’s not that people are upset about “sharing” Ariel with black children; it’s that if a non-black child wanted to dress up in a Tiana or Black Panther costume, their parents would have to think very, very carefully about how that would be perceived instead of just letting their child wear the costume of a character they love.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I agree with this general sentiment. These characters are designed to be easily discernible by color and silhouette, and they should be accessible to anyone.

However, I would say that I think most people are responding to a sense of exclusion rather than loss when they react negatively to things like this. In your example of Halloween costumes, it’s not that people are upset about “sharing” Ariel with black children; it’s that if a non-black child wanted to dress up in a Tiana or Black Panther costume, they would have to think very, very carefully about how that would perceived instead of just letting their child wear the costume of a character they love.

I disagree with the sentiment that white children can’t dress up as Tiana or Black Panther, as long as they aren’t do blackface, or portraying the character inappropriately, I’ve never seen anyone express issue with that

 

[James Alucobond]

I disagree with the sentiment that white children can’t dress up as Tiana or Black Panther, as long as they aren’t do blackface, or portraying the character inappropriately, I’ve never seen anyone express issue with that

I’m in this camp as well, but I have seen people take issue with it.

 

[Trauma]

I guess I meant that most children when they dress up as Ariel do it with a dress, since it’s not feasible to walk in a mermaid tail.

Now pre 1989, a girl dressed as a mermaid wouldn’t have been Ariel. She didn’t exist, now in 2023, it will be interesting to see If Disney sells two different Ariel costumes for Halloween, one more similar to her cartoon version, and another more inspired by the live action.

I think that what most of us that are in the camp that Ariel can be any race are saying, is that we identify characters by their attributes, and that unless their race is central to their character, like Tiana or Black Panther, it isn’t super important who portrays them, as long as they do the role justice.

Ok let me try to answer.

Black girl dressed as Ariel for Halloween with no tail - IF her hair was red and she had some sort of green bottoms to symbolize a tail maybe I would get it ? Without the red hair no chance. I would just think ok it’s some type of princess character.

I understand your argument about race being central to the character. I just disagree. I think race is central because it’s one of the core identifiers.

Let’s say my black neighbor woke up tomorrow and is completely white. Everything else is the same. I would never recognize him because one of his core attributes has changed.

I understand and respect your argument. I just think it’s makes more sense to create new characters instead of trying to change universally recognized characters into different versions.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Ok let me try to answer.

Black girl dressed as Ariel for Halloween with no tail - IF her hair was red and she had some sort of green bottoms to symbolize a tail maybe I would get it ? Without the red hair no chance. I would just think ok it’s some type of princess character.

I understand your argument about race being central to the character. I just disagree. I think race is central because it’s one of the core identifiers.

Let’s say my black neighbor woke up tomorrow and is completely white. Everything else is the same. I would never recognize him because one of his core attributes has changed.

I understand and respect your argument. I just think it’s makes more sense to create new characters instead of trying to change universally recognized characters into different versions.

And I respect your opinion. I think we are right on the line that the moderators would like us to stop posting on. So this will be my last post on the topic, but I have said above/May have been part of a post that was deleted, that I also would prefer Disney just create new, more diverse characters. Like Princess Asha from Wish, but I just don’t think we should discredit the actors/ new representation of classic characters at the same time.

 

[LittleBuford]

I agree with this general sentiment. These characters are designed to be easily discernible by color and silhouette, and they should be accessible to anyone.

However, I would say that I think most people are responding to a sense of exclusion rather than loss when they react negatively to things like this. In your example of Halloween costumes, it’s not that people are upset about “sharing” Ariel with black children; it’s that if a non-black child wanted to dress up in a Tiana or Black Panther costume, their parents would have to think very, very carefully about how that would be perceived instead of just letting their child wear the costume of a character they love.

OK, but the parents of Black children have to think about a lot more in relation to exclusion than what their children can and can't wear for Halloween.

 

[Prince-1]

Americans don't know how to make a good cup of tea. A proper British cuppa (with milk) would soon have you singing a different tune.

I would politely disagree with you. I've been to England multiple times and a proper cuppa tea with milk is just dirt water diluted with milk.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This post is in no way disrespectful I welcome this type of discussion because I always like to better my understanding.

Let me try to answer this as best I can.

Merida does not have a mermaid tail so I wouldn’t assume that.

Black girl on Halloween-

So I know that on Halloween kids dress up as famous characters and since Ariel is the most famous mermaid ( I think ) at least to kids, I would be able to put 2 and 2 together instantly.

Like you said we use attributes to identify someone quickly. Skin color and hair are two huge identifiers.

I never paid close attention to her outfit or bra color or whatever.

White girl. Red hair. Tail.

That’s Ariel.

Mermaids don’t exist. They can be whatever color the film makers want them to be.

 

[Trauma]

Mermaids don’t exist. They can be whatever color the film makers want them to be.

Wow really?

Superheroes don’t exist either but last time I checked the Black Panther is Black.

Thanks for you input.

 

[James Alucobond]

OK, but the parents of Black children have to think about a lot more in relation to exclusion than what their children can and can't wear for Halloween.

Which is also a problem, but only related in the sense of measuring who feels more or less excluded instead of addressing the issue. I think a lot of the sturm und drang from all sides of this argument stems from a sense that there are "rules for thee, not for me," and I don't personally think that you'll ever win everyone over by adding more rules as a sort of countermeasure.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Wow really?

Superheroes don’t exist either but last time I checked the Black Panther is Black.

Thanks for you input.

Don’t “thank me for my input”. Your response is freaking ridiculous. Black Panther is specifically supposed to be black and you know it. A mythological mermaid can be any color and you know it. Next you are going to be telling me that if a mermaid can be black, the cast of Dreamgirls can be white. Good freaking lord with some of you.

 

[LittleBuford]

Which is also a problem, but only related in the sense of measuring who feels more or less excluded instead of addressing the issue. I think a lot of the sturm und drang from all sides of this argument stems from a sense that there are "rules for thee, not for me," and I don't personally think that you'll ever win everyone over by adding more rules as a sort of countermeasure.

I'm not advocating for any such rules; it's ultimately the parents' call to make. But I think we have to keep things in perspective here, especially when using such charged terms as "exclusion".

 

[KeithVH]

 

[James Alucobond]

I'm not advocating for any such rules; it's ultimately the parents' call to make. But I think we have to keep things in perspective here, especially when using such charged terms as "exclusion".

I'm simply saying why I think people react so negatively to things like this. They often express themselves in the worst way possible and, as you say, in a way completely devoid of perspective, but when you feel excluded, it never feels good, and we shouldn't rationalize it, in my opinion. Not entirely sure how that's a charged term, though I suppose I agree that certain folks are overly sensitive to exclusion while others are sadly desensitized to it.

 

[Trauma]

Don’t “thank me for my input”. Your response is freaking ridiculous. Black Panther is specifically supposed to be black and you know it. A mythological mermaid can be any color and you know it. Next you are going to be telling me that if a mermaid can be black, the cast of Dreamgirls can be white. Good freaking lord with some of you.

If you can’t respond to people in ways that are conducive to constructive conversation maybe you should just sit out the conversation.

 

[BuddyThomas]

If you can’t respond to people in ways that are conducive to constructive conversation maybe you should just sit out the conversation.

No, I don’t think so. I called you out on your nonsense and now your only response is simply to tell me to shut up. Try again.

 

[KeithVH]

 

[Trauma]

No, I don’t think so. I called you out on your nonsense and now your only response is simply to tell me to shut up. Try again.

I will be more than happy too if we can keep it respectful.

You are 100% correct. Mermaids are mythical creatures and can be any color.

However we are not talking about “mermaids” we are talking about one specific mermaid Ariel.

Ariel was thrust into mainstream culture in 1989 with the smash hit The Little Mermaid.

Now when then animated classic was produced Ariel was portrayed with a fair skin tone (white) and red hair.

This is part of the identity of the character that makes her instantly recognizable.

If the original animated classic had portrayed Ariel with a dark skin tone ( black ) and black hair, that is how she would be instantly recognized today.

I would find this entire situation just as stupid if Ariel was originally black now being portrayed by a white actress.

Just because mermaids are not real and can be any color doesn’t mean that a specific and immediately recognizable character should be changed.

I look forward to hearing your point of view.

 

[Cliff]

"Bad" racism will never die,...because "good" racism will always be there to keep it alive....

I think that this is such a bad thing to see. Sadly, we as a society, just keep promoting and teaching racism in ALL it's forms to the next generation. The extreme importance of how people "look"...just get's passed on and on and on.

Maybe tribalism is "stuck" deep in every human's DNA and it can't be removed?