Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[CaptainAmerica]

We’re talking about a political minority, not a biological one. Under your analysis, since everyone has both a mother and father, discrimination against women has no consequences. Everyone is even.

Discrimination against women has no consequences for women qua women. A woman who has not been discriminated against is not a de facto victim of discrimination just because she's a woman.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yeah? And I'm referring to Al Pacino as Tony Montana.

You're not arguing in good faith. I was responding directly to @Vegas Disney Fan's comparison.

 

[LittleBuford]

And with that I’m going to go back and delete all my posts to save the mods the trouble lol.

I'll disengage also. Nothing good ever comes from these "discussions".

 

[DKampy]

You're not denying there's a culture war, you just like that Disney is on your side in it.

I don’t just go to Disney sites… I am talking other places… mainly a certain group of YouTubers who keep talking about this so called “culture war”…but it is generally only that group I see talking about it… until this little Disney forum

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You're referring to black-, brown-, and yellowface. Not the same thing at all. Bailey and Zegler aren't changing their complexion or pretending to be another ethnicity.

Yes, there are egregious examples like Mickey Rooney but I’m talking about the last decade or so, it was just a few years ago Marvel caught backlash for casting a white woman as the teacher in Dr Strange, Angela Jolie created backlash for being cast as Cleopatra, Prince of Persia cast Gyllendhall (had to look that one up), etc. None of the actors changed(or planned to change) their complexion, they just got cast in a role that was not considered a white role.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yes, there are egregious examples like Mickey Rooney but I’m talking about the last decade or so

That wasn't clear at all clear given that you referred to white actors in black roles, which, thankfully, isn't really a thing anymore.

it was just a few years ago Marvel caught backlash for casting a white woman as the teacher in Dr Strange, Angela Jolie created backlash for being cast as Cleopatra, Prince of Persia cast Gyllendhall (had to look that one up), etc. None of the actors changed(or planned to change) their complexion, they just played got cast in a role that was not considered a white role.

I know nothing about the teacher character, but the other examples you note remind me of the criticisms that Helen Mirren and Cillian Murphy have received for playing Jewish characters. I myself am not sure how I feel about such cases, since the actors in question are not necessarily "wrong" for the part as far as their appearance goes (Cleopatra was ethnically Greek, and plenty of Persian people are light-skinned).

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

That wasn't clear at all clear given that you referred to white actors in black roles, which, thankfully, isn't really a thing anymore.


I know nothing about the teacher character, but the other examples you note remind me of the criticisms that Helen Mirren and Cillian Murphy have received for playing Jewish characters. I myself am not sure how I feel about such cases, since the actors in question are not necessarily "wrong" for the part as far as their appearance goes (Cleopatra was ethnically Greek, and plenty of Persian people are light-skinned).

I was referring to The Ancient One (had to look that up too).

Another recent example is Disney getting backlash over the actors cast to play Nani and David in the upcoming lilo and stitch, the backlash was because they’re not dark enough, even though they are Hawaiians people didn’t feel they looked right for the parts.

People, regardless of race, have an image of what know characters look like, and deviating from that image isn’t generally popular. I think that’s equally true to everyone, including white people.

There are many examples of characters from different races “owning” a role but they are typically characters that don’t have such an ingrained image. Samual Jackson as Nick Fury being a great example because now I can’t imagine anyone else playing that role.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I wish they stopped the live action remakes and create new stories like Wish. I KNOW they have TONS of new ideas on the shelves to pick from.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Why do people keep implying that it's either quality OR diversity?

Literally nobody has said any such thing.

Loads of the people frustrated with Disney's current direction are huge fans of Moana, Princess and the Frog, Black Panther, Coco, Encanto, Elemental, Soul, and on and on.

 

[TP2000]

Diversity never comes naturally.

You've obviously never been to one of my dinner parties.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

You've obviously never been to one of my dinner parties.

Side question, how do you get your Chihuahua GIF to move? Fred Astaire (as The Walt Disney Company) is supposed to be dancing on top of everything I once loved.

 

[TP2000]

Side question, how do you get your Chihuahua GIF to move? Fred Astaire (as The Walt Disney Company) is supposed to be dancing on top of everything I once loved.

I just sent you a note with some thoughts on the matter.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I used the word "imply" to communicate that while nobody "literally" said it, it continues to come across as an assertion that Disney somehow is choosing (or "prioritizing") diversity over quality.

At this point, there's no way Snow White will be evaluated based on what the actual film is/isn't. It's just more shadow boxing with Disney over some imagined ideological battle.

Snow White has literally been 1) delayed for an entire year, 2) filmed with goofy magical companions instead of dwarfs, which everyone hated, 3) re-shot with horrible looking CGI dwarfs, which everyone hated, all PRECISELY because Disney has prioritized diversity over quality. It's cost them tens of millions of dollars on this film alone.

Buying a yellow car doesn't mean you're going to have mechanical problems. But if you spend weeks and months and millions of dollars taking paint samples to make sure your car is the exact shade of yellow it needs to be, maybe you don't get around to testing for mechanical problems because there's no time or budget left.

 

[doctornick]

Why do people keep implying that it's either quality OR diversity?

I don't think that's the implication, but more that Disney is valuing diversity more than quality. Or even to the extent that perhaps they are willing to sacrifice quality to get their desired quality of diversity.

I don't know if that's true at all but I could see how some might feel that is the case. And @CaptainAmerica is suggesting that s/he has some insight into the creative process of the company and is asserting that diversity measures seems to be driving many programming decisions. When they let go of Latronda Newton, I do feel like there was some smoke surrounding that it was felt that DEI initiates was harming the creative process and impacting quality.

 

[_caleb]

Snow White has literally been 1) delayed for an entire year, 2) filmed with goofy magical companions instead of dwarfs, which everyone hated, 3) re-shot with horrible looking CGI dwarfs, which everyone hated, all PRECISELY because Disney has prioritized diversity over quality. It's cost them tens of millions of dollars on this film alone.

I understand that this is your interpretation of the process. But you attribute to "diversity" things that have nothing to with it. Loud angry "fans" may indeed have pressured Disney to change direction on depicting the Dwarfs as little humans, fantasy creatures, or 3D versions of the original animated characters, or whatever. These are creative decisions. You are the one insisting these are due to diversity mandates.

Buying a yellow car doesn't mean you're going to have mechanical problems. But if you spend weeks and months and millions of dollars taking paint samples to make sure your car is the exact shade of yellow it needs to be, maybe you don't get around to testing for mechanical problems because there's no time or budget left.

See, this is what I mean. Disney is a huge corporation that sets budgets and creates detailed plans. They don't say, "oops, the casting team burned through all this project's time and money looking for an inferior actor who fits a pre-defined demographic; sorry special effects team, you've only got ten grand left and two weeks to finish."

 

[Joel]

Disney issued this public statement following Peter Dinklage's outrage over the remake: "To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community."

That is not merely a creative decision.

 

[Disstevefan1]

No, I’m not saying this. I’m saying Disney has enough data to tell them that they needed to make some changes.

EVERYONE can see they need to make changes!!!!!!

 

[Disney Irish]

Back on the Dwarfs thing for a second. There has been confirmation earlier this month from inside the production that the Dwarfs were always there and that the other Bandits from that leaked photo are a separate group. There is no "change".

Snow White's Live-Action Movie Designer Denies Controversial Dwarfs Report

After the surprising delay of the live-action remake of Snow White, one of the film's designers addresses the rumors surrounding the movie's dwarves.

movieweb.com

Carry on with the rest of the bickering.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Back on the Dwarfs thing for a second. There has been confirmation earlier this month from inside the production that the Dwarfs were always there and that the other Bandits from that leaked photo are a separate group. There is no "change".

Snow White's Live-Action Movie Designer Denies Controversial Dwarfs Report

After the surprising delay of the live-action remake of Snow White, one of the film's designers addresses the rumors surrounding the movie's dwarves.

movieweb.com

Carry on with the rest of the bickering.

That's so much worse, if true. That would mean:

1. The magical hobos are still in.

2. The horrifying CGI renders on the dwarfs weren't rushed and revealed in a panic, they actually look like that on purpose.

 

[Andrew C]

That's so much worse, if true. That would mean:

1. The magical hobos are still in.

2. The horrifying CGI renders on the dwarfs weren't rushed and revealed in a panic, they actually look like that on purpose.

Someone in hair and makeup isn’t confirmation of anything imo.