Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[LittleBuford]

I guess it matters if you care about how the "sausage" is made.

Really all the behind the scenes stuff used to never matter, it only become more prevalent and more of a focus as the internet and social media grew. The same with the box office performance, no one outside of Hollywood insiders use to care too much. Now you have amateur analysts tracking each failure like its a badge of honor.

This isn't behind-the-scenes stuff, though. In response to Peter Dinklage's criticisms, Disney put out the following statement:

To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. We look forward to sharing more as the film heads into production after a lengthy development period.​

Now, leaving aside whether Disney was correct to commit itself to such an approach in the first place, it's clear they've now gone back to precisely the sort of portrayal that Dinklage was criticising. This is public flip-flopping, and it looks craven to me.

 

[LittleBuford]

Otherwise when the absolute horrendous picture leaked, they just say, hey that's not what we're doing and clear it all up. And that would have saved them months of being dragged through the mud.

Exactly. Had this been the plan all along, they would have let the world know about the dwarfs as soon as the infamous production photos leaked.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

So I get where @LittleBuford is coming from, as it comes across that Disney has caved to that ridiculous mob.

“Ridiculous mob” or “fairly significant portion of their formerly faithful customers”.

Disney has had a long string of failures this year, that isn’t the result of a few rage YouTube accounts, they have alienated a significant portion of their fans and they need to get them back if they’re going to see movie profits again.

 

[Disney Irish]

You are right in the fact that no one really knows. But come on, if this wasn't a change, Disney deserves all the criticism they've received over the last few years. I firmly believe this is them absolutely trying to save face. Otherwise when the absolute horrendous picture leaked, they just say, hey that's not what we're doing and clear it all up. And that would have saved them months of being dragged through the mud.

Well in all fairness they did first say the leaked photo was fake, and then corrected saying it wasn't official and that they were using stand-ins. Context matters here. We don't know what they meant by "stand-in", are they stand-in for the real actors, are they stand-ins for CG, are they just part of B-Roll for the rumored flashback scenes.

Again everything was all based on speculation.

Now this I agree with. They could learn a lot from the sonic the hedgehog movie. Just admit you screwed up, and are changing things. It did wonders for that film. But with the way Disney hs handled this whole thing, there's not much hope of saving it, even if it's good.

But was there a "screw up"? Or are we just in such a hyper-spoiler environment that unless Disney gives out a plot by plot breakdown with official screen stills from the movie that everyone just assumes too much.

Also the Sonic moment was based on an official trailer. We haven't even got that yet. This is all still behind the scenes stuff during production with an unfinished movie.

 

[Disney Irish]

This isn't behind-the-scenes stuff, though. In response to Peter Dinklage's criticisms, Disney put out the following statement:

To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. We look forward to sharing more as the film heads into production after a lengthy development period.​

Now, leaving aside whether Disney was correct to commit itself to such an approach in the first place, it's clear they've now gone back to precisely the sort of portrayal that Dinklage was criticising. This is public flip-flopping, and it looks craven to me.

Except is it behind the scenes stuff, because we haven't even seen a trailer yet. All we've seen in some leak set photos with no context, a couple statements, and now an official still photo from the unfinished movie.

I would agree with you had we had an official trailer released and they went back and changed things afterwards, that would be a "Sonic" moment that some of us are alluding to. But we had even gotten to that yet.

 

[erasure fan1]

Disney has had a long string of failures this year, that isn’t the result of a few rage YouTube accounts, they have alienated a significant portion of their fans and they need to get them back if they’re going to see movie profits again.

Exactly. This notion that it's just some nerd rage influencers is ridiculous. You don't lose as bad as they have unless you have pushed away a large portion of your fan base.

 

[Chi84]

These are the bit of information I'm referring to, which don't, as far as I know, go back to that DisInsider tweet:

You can get completely different interpretations of the same quote from the screening.

The quote is: “The dwarfs are now like the merry men and they hide out in a cottage in the woods so the queen doesn’t find them.”

#1: The dwarfs [who remain in the movie with their original names] are now like the merry men [meaning they steal from the rich and give to the poor instead of mining for diamonds] and hide in the woods to avoid being caught.

#2: The dwarfs [have been removed from the movie despite being termed dwarfs in the screening review] are now like the merry men [meaning they have been replaced by magical creatures who are like the merry men] and hide in the woods to avoid being caught.

To avoid an interpretation consistent with the first official picture, we have decided that Disney initially ditched the dwarfs, made a good film without them, then bowed to outside pressure from a few conservative websites and completely rewrote and reshot the film - but now it’s worse. That works.

 

[LittleBuford]

Except is it behind the scenes stuff, because we haven't even seen a trailer yet. All we've seen in some leak set photos with no context, a couple statements, and now an official still photo from the unfinished movie.

I would agree with you had we had an official trailer released and they went back and changed things afterwards, that would be a "Sonic" moment that some of us are alluding to. But we had even gotten to that yet.

The official photo, which shows the Seven Dwarfs in a highly traditional form, is at odds with the official statement I quoted, which promised "a different approach with these seven characters". The disconnect is there in Disney's own messaging.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Exactly. This notion that it's just some nerd rage influencers is ridiculous. You don't lose as bad as they have unless you have pushed away a large portion of your fan base.

I believe the nerd rage machine was the start back in the day, it transitioned into the right wing rage machine, political culture wars, which in turn pushes more people away due to the drama of it all, built around campaigns of misinformation and rage farming.

As well, I believe many consumers have moved away from the traditional theatrical release model, and wait to stream, unless it’s a bigger “event” moment (aka Barbie became an event).

I believe there are many factors at play.

 

[Disney Irish]

It also has become a major focus of the rage farming online against Disney. It’s popular to hate on Disney, and any movie in general seen by that group as “woke”. There’s way more attention given now to the sausage being made then there was previously.

Agreed, and its sad to see in a lot of ways. A lot of the magic of Hollywood has been lost because it.

So I get where @LittleBuford is coming from, as it comes across that Disney has caved to that ridiculous mob.

And whether its true or not you'll have some that still claim victory anyways.

But I also think what you are saying could also be true. We have no idea the context of the leaked image. For all we know it’s still part of the film in some way, or was a concept they started with and cut … or so many things.

Exactly, this is why rumors/leaks and such as so dangerous as they can get everyone bent out of shape before the final product is released. Its why Marvel was so fierce in trying to squash rumors/leaks for a long time.

 

[LittleBuford]

You can get completely different interpretations of the same quote from the screening.

The quote is: “The dwarfs are now like the merry men and they hide out in a cottage in the woods so the queen doesn’t find them.”

#1: The dwarfs [who remain in the movie with their original names] are now like the merry men [meaning they steal from the rich and give to the poor instead of mining for diamonds] and hide in the woods to avoid being caught.

#2: The dwarfs [have been removed from the movie despite being termed dwarfs in the screening review] are now like the merry men [meaning they have been replaced by magical creatures who are like the merry men] and hide in the woods to avoid being caught.

To avoid an interpretation consistent with the first official picture, we have decided that Disney initially ditched the dwarfs, made a good film without them, then bowed to outside pressure from a few conservative websites and completely rewrote and reshot the film - but now it’s worse. That works.

OK, but another of the quotes praises the "[v]ery good face acting from most of the actors there", in reference to the dwarfs-turned-bandits. I'm not sure how one can square that statement, which clearly refers to human performers, with the CGI imagery released yesterday.

 

[erasure fan1]

But was there a "screw up"? Or are we just in such a hyper-spoiler environment that unless Disney gives out a plot by plot breakdown with official screen stills from the movie that everyone just assumes too much.

Yes, there was absolutely a screw up. Because like I said, when the photo leaked, you explain it and save yourself months of beat downs. People assume because they don't clarify. And in this case the assumption makes a whole lot more sense than, this was the plan all along. Because all that did was ruin this films chances of success.

 

[Disney Irish]

The official photo, which shows the Seven Dwarfs in a highly traditional form, is at odds with the official statement I quoted, which promised "a different approach with these seven characters". The disconnect is there in Disney's own messaging.

Maybe and I see your point, or it could be interpreted that instead of trying to use the traditional depiction that could be seen as making fun of dwarfs they were consulting the community to get their input on how they should be depicted so they aren't.

 

[LittleBuford]

Maybe and I see your point, or it could be interpreted that instead of trying to use the traditional depiction that could be seen as making fun of dwarfs they were consulting the community to get their input on how they should be depicted so they aren't.

Again, I'll be the first to admit my mistake if I've jumped to the wrong conclusion. I hope I have.

 

[Chi84]

OK, but another of the quotes praises the "[v]ery good face acting from most of the actors there", in reference to the dwarfs-turned-bandits. I'm not sure how one can square that statement, which clearly refers to human performers, with the CGI imagery released yesterday.

Why would they use the term ”face-acting” in reference to human actors. Seems odd but maybe that’s just because I haven’t heard it.

 

[LittleBuford]

Why would they use the term ”face-acting” in reference to human actors.

I don't know. Perhaps their bodies were digitally modified in a manner similar to the three fairies in Maleficent. I grant you it sounds odd, but it would sound even stranger if said of CGI characters.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes, there was absolutely a screw up. Because like I said, when the photo leaked, you explain it and save yourself months of beat downs. People assume because they don't clarify. And in this case the assumption makes a whole lot more sense than, this was the plan all along. Because all that did was ruin this films chances of success.

I see your point, but disagree. I don't see a "screw up" here. Again we don't know where in the film that leaked photo comes from. From what I recall when it was leaked it was from some re-shoots, likely B-Roll and pickup shots, with stand-ins (Disney later confirmed as much). None of the main actors were present in the leaked photos. So for all we know it could be part of the rumored flashback scenes.

So other than Disney bumbling the messaging when the leak happened, which is pretty normal now for not just Disney but Hollywood is general, I don't see a screw up.

 

[TP2000]

Well in all fairness they did first say the leaked photo was fake, and then corrected saying it wasn't official and that they were using stand-ins. Context matters here. We don't know what they meant by "stand-in", are they stand-in for the real actors, are they stand-ins for CG, are they just part of B-Roll for the rumored flashback scenes.

The first statement on the photo from Disney was patently false, and they were forced to issue a correction within hours.

“The photos are fake and not from our production. We are currently trying to have the Daily Mail issue a correction,” - Disney spokesman to The Daily Beast, July 14th.

But the photo of the B Cast of Godspell Seven Magical Creatures were in fact the actors and actresses who had that role in the movie before they got cut and replaced by CGI dwarves sometime in the last 90 days.

The second statement on the photo from Disney less than a day later explained that there were two stand-ins shown in the photo, for Andrew Burnap and Rachel Zegler. (Which was obvious to anyone who had seen the photo, as those two actors weren't in the photo).

“The images that ran [in the Daily Mail] are not official film photos. These show stand-ins for some talent and do not feature Rachel Zegler or Andrew Burnap.” -Disney spokesman's statement to The Independent, July 15th.

The Daily Mail, who initially released the infamous photo, was also following up with Disney after Disney wrongfully claimed the photo was not from the Snow White film set. In the follow up from the Daily Mail, they stated...

"This article has been amended since initial publication to correctly identify the actress portraying Snow White as an extra who stood in for post-production photography. Disney confirms that stand-ins were used for both Rachel Zegler and Andrew Burnap in these images. We are happy to clarify this point." -London Daily Mail, July 15th.

The photo had two stand-ins for Burnap and Zegler, and the seven magical creatures who just got fired...

 

[Disney Irish]

The first statement on the photo from Disney was patently false, and they were forced to issue a correction within hours. And the photo of the B Cast of Godspell Seven Magical Creatures was the actors and actresses who had that role in the movie before they got cut and replaced by CGI dwarves sometime in the last 90 days.

The second statement on the photo from Disney explained that there were two stand-ins shown in the photo, for Andrew Burnap and Rachel Zegler. (Which was obvious to anyone who had seen the photo, as those two actors weren't in the photo).

“The images that ran [in the Daily Mail] are not official film photos. These show stand-ins for some talent and do not feature Rachel Zegler or Andrew Burnap.” -Disney spokesman's statement to The Independent.

The Daily Mail, who initially released the infamous photo, was also following up with Disney after Disney wrongfully claimed the photo was not from the Snow White film set. In the follow up from the Daily Mail, they stated...

"This article has been amended since initial publication to correctly identify the actress portraying Snow White as an extra who stood in for post-production photography. Disney confirms that stand-ins were used for both Rachel Zegler and Andrew Burnap in these images. We are happy to clarify this point."

The photo had two stand-ins for Burnap and Zegler, and the seven magical creatures who just got fired...

You have the exact quote right there.

No where in that quote does it say those are indeed the "seven magical creatures", it was assumed. It also states there are stand-ins for some talent, that is not to indicate that all other of those actors are indeed in the film and its only Zegler and Burnap that were the only stand-ins.

So again so many assumptions are being made based on very little information and just being ran with.

 

[TP2000]

You have the exact quote right there.

No where in that quote does it say those are indeed the "seven magical creatures", it was assumed. It also states there are stand-ins for some talent, that is not to indicate that all other of those actors are indeed in the film and its only Zegler and Burnap that were the only stand-ins.

So again so many assumptions are being made based on very little information and just being ran with.

Who do you think these seven actors were supposed to be then? What might their role be in the Snow White movie? Are they villagers? Background extras in a crowd scene? Apple orchard employees?