Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[LittleBuford]

Absolutely, and frankly until a movie is released, who cares?

Do you honestly not care that Disney has very probably introduced a bunch of CGI dwarfs at the eleventh hour in order to stave off criticism of the film as it was originally conceived?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Do you honestly not care that Disney has very probably introduced a bunch of CGI dwarfs at the eleventh hour in order to stave off criticism of the film as it was originally conceived?

Films can change drastically from concept, to what is originally filmed, to what is released, based on a multitude of factors.

Honestly the only thing I really care about is the finished product.

 

[Disney Irish]

Do you honestly not care that Disney has very probably introduced a bunch of CGI dwarfs at the eleventh hour in order to stave off criticism of the film as it was originally conceived?

The idea here is that no one here, and certainly neither do the people writing these articles, know if there really was an "eleventh" hour change. All we have is one unofficial leaked set photo that Disney I believe said had "stand-ins", and this now officially released photo showing CG dwarf looking characters. So maybe there was a change, or maybe these were the characters all along. Maybe one day someone will come out and give the real story, but until then none of this made up drama is important.

The only thing that is really is important is the final product and if it is good or not.

 

[LittleBuford]

Films can change drastically from concept, to what is originally filmed, to what is released, based on a multitude of factors.

Honestly the only thing I really care about is the finished product.

The issue for me is not that the film has changed; it's why and how. We've gone from something that promised to be original and different to something designed to appease and appeal to a bunch of reactionary detractors.

 

[LittleBuford]

The idea here is that no one here, and certainly neither do the people writing these articles, know if there really was an "eleventh" hour change. All we have is one unofficial leaked set photo that Disney I believe said had "stand-ins", and this now officially released photo showing CG dwarf looking characters. So maybe there was a change, or maybe these were the characters all along. Maybe one day someone will come out and give the real story, but until then none of this made up drama is important.

The only thing that is really is important is the final product and if it is good or not.

I agree the final product matters, but the process of how they get to that product also matters in my opinion.

 

[Disney Analyst]

The issue for me is not that the film has changed; it's why and how. We've gone from something that promised to be original and different to something designed to appease and appeal to a bunch of reactionary detractors.

I can fully understand why you feel the way you feel. I just haven’t put a lot of stock in the discourse, which is constant and continuous for all these films these days.

All I care about is that they hopefully get to a quality film, that is hopefully a success, which is doubtful at this point given all the surrounding drama.

 

[LittleBuford]

I can fully understand why you feel the way you feel. I just haven’t put a lot of stock in the discourse, which is constant and continuous for all these films these days.

All I care about is that they hopefully get to a quality film, that is hopefully a success, which is doubtful at this point given all the surrounding drama.

As you know, I was very much rooting for this film to succeed. I no longer care how it does.

 

[erasure fan1]

The idea here is that no one here, and certainly neither do the people writing these articles, know if there really was an "eleventh" hour change. All we have is one set photo that Disney I believe said had "stand-ins", and this now officially released photo showing CG dwarf looking characters.

You are right in the fact that no one really knows. But come on, if this wasn't a change, Disney deserves all the criticism they've received over the last few years. I firmly believe this is them absolutely trying to save face. Otherwise when the absolute horrendous picture leaked, they just say, hey that's not what we're doing and clear it all up. And that would have saved them months of being dragged through the mud.

The only thing that is really is important is the final product and if it is good or not.

Now this I agree with. They could learn a lot from the sonic the hedgehog movie. Just admit you screwed up, and are changing things. It did wonders for that film. But with the way Disney hs handled this whole thing, there's not much hope of saving it, even if it's good.

 

[Disney Irish]

I agree the final product matters, but the process of how they get to that product also matters in my opinion.

I guess it matters if you care about how the "sausage" is made.

Really all the behind the scenes stuff used to never matter, it only become more prevalent and more of a focus as the internet and social media grew. The same with the box office performance, no one outside of Hollywood insiders use to care too much. Now you have amateur analysts tracking each failure like its a badge of honor.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I agree the final product matters, but the process of how they get to that product also matters in my opinion.

I think you’re both correct, I love speculating about the behind the scenes stuff but ultimately if the final product is great that’s all that matters.

There’s a great documentary on Toy Story and how the original characters and story didn’t work so it was completely redone, it’s fascinating seeing how it got to the end product but ultimately I’m just glad we got the end product we did.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I guess it matters if you care about how the "sausage" is made.

Really all the behind the scenes stuff used to never matter, it only become more prevalent and more of a focus as the internet and social media grew. The same with the box office performance, no one outside of Hollywood insiders use to care too much. Now you have amateur analysts tracking each failure like its a badge of honor.

It also has become a major focus of the rage farming online against Disney. It’s popular to hate on Disney, and any movie in general seen by that group as “woke”. There’s way more attention given now to the sausage being made then there was previously.

So I get where @LittleBuford is coming from, as it comes across that Disney has caved to that ridiculous mob.

But I also think what you are saying could also be true. We have no idea the context of the leaked image. For all we know it’s still part of the film in some way, or was a concept they started with and cut … or so many things.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Any word on if the “other” Snow White is still keeping its release date?

It feels like they were kind of banking on being the alternative traditional version and now that Disneys (apparently) pivoted back towards the original story they’ve lost some of their thunder.

 

[LittleBuford]

I guess it matters if you care about how the "sausage" is made.

Really all the behind the scenes stuff used to never matter, it only become more prevalent and more of a focus as the internet and social media grew. The same with the box office performance, no one outside of Hollywood insiders use to care too much. Now you have amateur analysts tracking each failure like its a badge of honor.

This isn't behind-the-scenes stuff, though. In response to Peter Dinklage's criticisms, Disney put out the following statement:

To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. We look forward to sharing more as the film heads into production after a lengthy development period.​

Now, leaving aside whether Disney was correct to commit itself to such an approach in the first place, it's clear they've now gone back to precisely the sort of portrayal that Dinklage was criticising. This is public flip-flopping, and it looks craven to me.

 

[LittleBuford]

Otherwise when the absolute horrendous picture leaked, they just say, hey that's not what we're doing and clear it all up. And that would have saved them months of being dragged through the mud.

Exactly. Had this been the plan all along, they would have let the world know about the dwarfs as soon as the infamous production photos leaked.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

So I get where @LittleBuford is coming from, as it comes across that Disney has caved to that ridiculous mob.

“Ridiculous mob” or “fairly significant portion of their formerly faithful customers”.

Disney has had a long string of failures this year, that isn’t the result of a few rage YouTube accounts, they have alienated a significant portion of their fans and they need to get them back if they’re going to see movie profits again.

 

[Disney Irish]

You are right in the fact that no one really knows. But come on, if this wasn't a change, Disney deserves all the criticism they've received over the last few years. I firmly believe this is them absolutely trying to save face. Otherwise when the absolute horrendous picture leaked, they just say, hey that's not what we're doing and clear it all up. And that would have saved them months of being dragged through the mud.

Well in all fairness they did first say the leaked photo was fake, and then corrected saying it wasn't official and that they were using stand-ins. Context matters here. We don't know what they meant by "stand-in", are they stand-in for the real actors, are they stand-ins for CG, are they just part of B-Roll for the rumored flashback scenes.

Again everything was all based on speculation.

Now this I agree with. They could learn a lot from the sonic the hedgehog movie. Just admit you screwed up, and are changing things. It did wonders for that film. But with the way Disney hs handled this whole thing, there's not much hope of saving it, even if it's good.

But was there a "screw up"? Or are we just in such a hyper-spoiler environment that unless Disney gives out a plot by plot breakdown with official screen stills from the movie that everyone just assumes too much.

Also the Sonic moment was based on an official trailer. We haven't even got that yet. This is all still behind the scenes stuff during production with an unfinished movie.

 

[Disney Irish]

This isn't behind-the-scenes stuff, though. In response to Peter Dinklage's criticisms, Disney put out the following statement:

To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. We look forward to sharing more as the film heads into production after a lengthy development period.​

Now, leaving aside whether Disney was correct to commit itself to such an approach in the first place, it's clear they've now gone back to precisely the sort of portrayal that Dinklage was criticising. This is public flip-flopping, and it looks craven to me.

Except is it behind the scenes stuff, because we haven't even seen a trailer yet. All we've seen in some leak set photos with no context, a couple statements, and now an official still photo from the unfinished movie.

I would agree with you had we had an official trailer released and they went back and changed things afterwards, that would be a "Sonic" moment that some of us are alluding to. But we had even gotten to that yet.

 

[erasure fan1]

Disney has had a long string of failures this year, that isn’t the result of a few rage YouTube accounts, they have alienated a significant portion of their fans and they need to get them back if they’re going to see movie profits again.

Exactly. This notion that it's just some nerd rage influencers is ridiculous. You don't lose as bad as they have unless you have pushed away a large portion of your fan base.

 

[Chi84]

These are the bit of information I'm referring to, which don't, as far as I know, go back to that DisInsider tweet:

You can get completely different interpretations of the same quote from the screening.

The quote is: “The dwarfs are now like the merry men and they hide out in a cottage in the woods so the queen doesn’t find them.”

#1: The dwarfs [who remain in the movie with their original names] are now like the merry men [meaning they steal from the rich and give to the poor instead of mining for diamonds] and hide in the woods to avoid being caught.

#2: The dwarfs [have been removed from the movie despite being termed dwarfs in the screening review] are now like the merry men [meaning they have been replaced by magical creatures who are like the merry men] and hide in the woods to avoid being caught.

To avoid an interpretation consistent with the first official picture, we have decided that Disney initially ditched the dwarfs, made a good film without them, then bowed to outside pressure from a few conservative websites and completely rewrote and reshot the film - but now it’s worse. That works.

 

[LittleBuford]

Except is it behind the scenes stuff, because we haven't even seen a trailer yet. All we've seen in some leak set photos with no context, a couple statements, and now an official still photo from the unfinished movie.

I would agree with you had we had an official trailer released and they went back and changed things afterwards, that would be a "Sonic" moment that some of us are alluding to. But we had even gotten to that yet.

The official photo, which shows the Seven Dwarfs in a highly traditional form, is at odds with the official statement I quoted, which promised "a different approach with these seven characters". The disconnect is there in Disney's own messaging.