Lines at the FP+ entrances

[jlsHouston]

To keep people from jumping from the Standby line into the FP line. Some have reported that at the second scanner CMs let one family member scan and waved the rest alongwithout scanning. I guess the second scan also now can be used to collect data on how long FP lines are.

I may have scanner info backward, but it appears sometimes only one member of the group has to scan.

And that would help move the FP line at a better pace....

 

[doctornick]

So people who tour the parks regularly are a minority as far as park guests go? Do you really think that it will work this way as far as how the available FP's are going to work? That it is simply a redistribution of the FP's ? I just pretty much assumed that at least half the people visiting the parks were repeat visitors. I have don't remember seeing a lot of those 1st visit buttons on people nearly as much as I see Happy Birthday or I'm celebrating. Not that counting the buttons would be an accurate way to get a percentage of first time/one time visitors.
I guess I have just assumed that people who spend less time in the parks and use 3 or less FP's per day are the minority. And going on that assumption I have wondered since last fall why the new FP+ system was set up with 3 as the limit, tiered at some parks and only 1 park per day because it seemed to me that WDW was lessening the vacation experience for over half of their regular customer base...

Well, there's a large gap between "1st time visitor" and "frequent visitor". A lot of people go every couple of year, maybe once or twice a decade, or haven't gone in 20 years but are now bringing their own children, etc. Even a lot of repeat guests only pulled 1 or 2 FP a day. Anyhow, I personally know people that have gone to WDW and I've specifically instructed to get FP and how important they are and they still ignored or underutlizied the system (and did less rides as a result, unfortunately). A lot of people just instinctively get into lines for rides they want when they are sitting in front of it; getting a FP for hours later can be counter intuitive if you don't fully grasp the system because you have to "waste time" and "backtrack in the park".

We've had alleged insiders on here report that the average guest at WDW only pulled 1.9 paper FP a day. I can't say that it's accurate but I can believe it. and if the average guest pulled ~2 FP a day, then that means that for every guest that pulls 6 or 8 or 10 FP in a day, there are many others who pull 1 or none. People have run the numbers on this and other boards and calcuated that, based on estimated attendence numbers, DHS/DAK/Epcot really cannot support much more than 3 FP/day on busy days if everyone is getting that amount. I don't think that Disney is letting FP capacity go unused by limiting people to 3 per day (except perhaps at MK), it's just that is what the ride capacity can handle.

(Yes, it means the 3 of the parks need more rides. That's been clear.)

The cold reality is that the reason why Mr. FP Superuser can't get 8 FP+ in a day now is because other people are getting more FP+ than they ever would under the old paper system. FP+ redistributes fastpass capacity to all the guests much more evenly. Some people are negatively affected -- quite a bit actually -- but that doesn't mean that the system is de facto bad or negative for all guests; many guests are going to have more positive experiences as a result of the system.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I have a hard time believing that Disney spent over 1.5 billion dollars on the Magic Bands, just so that the infrequent guests would now have a better experience.

Everything Disney does is for profit and eventually, something is going to happen that will allow them to make back that money quickly. No company spends this much money as a gift to the people.

I do not think we have seen the ceiling yet of what is to come with this new system. The fact is, Disney will make a profit from the 1.5 billion spent. My guess is in a year or so, fast passes will be for sale. With the profit from that, 1.5 Billion could be made up quickly and it will be a guaranteed purchase and profit, rather than hoping and crossing their fingers that more snacks and souvenirs get purchased as a result to this new system.

Lets face it, if only 100,000 people a year bought fast passes at a cheap price of only 20 bucks a trip, that is 2 million back. Disney knows this and after this initial stage of testing has ended, by next year, Disney will have everything analysed and figured out.

Again, This is all for profit, not a gift to those one time infrequent guests to have a better experience.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I have a hard time believing that Disney spent over 1.5 billion dollars on the Magic Bands, just so that the infrequent guests would now have a better experience.

As Iger and Rasulo have explained, MyMagic+ is supposed to:

1. Encourage guests to preplan more of their vacations. The idea being, if vacations are preplanned at WDW, guests are less likely to spend their Orlando vacation dollars elsewhere.
2. Provide guests with an overall better experience. The idea being that happy guests spend more.
3. Present Disney with upsell opportunities, in large part through smart phone technology.
4. Provide incentives for guests to switch from offsite to onsite hotels.

That's what they've publically stated are the goals of MyMagic+.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

As Iger and Rasulo have explained, MyMagic+ is supposed to:

1. Encourage guests to preplan more of their vacations. The idea being, if vacations are preplanned at WDW, guests are less likely to spend their Orlando vacation dollars elsewhere.
2. Provide guests with an overall better experience. The idea being that happy guests spend more.
3. Present Disney with upsell opportunities, in large part through smart phone technology.
4. Provide incentives for guests to switch from offsite to onsite hotels.

That's what they've publically stated is the goals of MyMagic+.

I think everyone here, who is in the corporate field, is familiar with what the "company line" is.

Nobody expected Disney to say anything other than the good old company line. They definitely were not going to say that they want to take as much money out of your pockets as they possibly can. And lets face it, we do know that is what they want.

In the end people will believe what they want to believe, but anyone in business will tell you that in the boardroom, when 1.5 billion is discussed to be spent, the first questioned asked after that is "how are we going to get it back quickly".

If you look at everything 1-4 of what Iger said, All of that is the cross your fingers, hope, and assume approach. None of those comments are guaranteed to pay them back and no company would spend 1.5 billion on hopes and dreams. That is why I think we have not hit the ceiling yet of what the new Disney system will be.

As for number 4. What incentives are in place to make people leave off site and pay triple to stay onsite.

 

[jlsHouston]

I wonder who crunched numbers for ROI on this technology for TWDC? I don't know if I buy the FP+ part of MM+ was set up for true guest experience improvement. I suspect as this MB thing is a part of it, it was set up to get some income out of it.
I am sure Next Gen has all kinds of upside potential for companies that have it in place. I think maybe there is a chance Disney overreached here with it and has done a poor job of rolling it out and taking some parts of it from "testing", to this is what we have now.
I just hope my MB's let me charge and open the resort door on this next trip and I don't have to spend a day between the front desk and the concierge forcing them to make it happen.
I still look at the 3 FP+ for 1 park per day and tiered as a negative game changer, even though for me individually it works great. And if some percent of repeat guests are unhappy with FP+ I do think that should matter to TWDC.....

 

[Lucky]

I do not think we have seen the ceiling yet of what is to come with this new system. The fact is, Disney will make a profit from the 1.5 billion spent. My guess is in a year or so, fast passes will be for sale. With the profit from that, 1.5 Billion could be made up quickly and it will be a guaranteed purchase and profit, rather than hoping and crossing their fingers that more snacks and souvenirs get purchased as a result to this new system.

Lets face it, if only 100,000 people a year bought fast passes at a cheap price of only 20 bucks a trip, that is 2 million back.

It's not quite that easy or they would have been selling FP access all along. You have to balance that revenue against what you would lose from guests not willing to pay for FPs. By losing "free" FPs they won't be getting the same experience they do now, and some of them wouldn't still be willing to pay the same price for park tickets that they would if "free" FPs were part of the deal. The law of demand still applies, whether or not Disney has a $1.5b sunk cost in MBs and FP+.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I wonder who crunched numbers for ROI on this technology for TWDC? I don't know if I buy the FP+ part of MM+ was set up for true guest experience improvement. I suspect as this MB thing is a part of it, it was set up to get some income out of it.
I am sure Next Gen has all kinds of upside potential for companies that have it in place. I think maybe there is a chance Disney overreached here with it and has done a poor job of rolling it out and taking some parts of it from "testing", to this is what we have now.
I just hope my MB's let me charge and open the resort door on this next trip and I don't have to spend a day between the front desk and the concierge forcing them to make it happen.
I still look at the 3 FP+ for 1 park per day and tiered as a negative game changer, even though for me individually it works great. And if some percent of repeat guests are unhappy with FP+ I do think that should matter to TWDC.....

You are absolutely right. Limiting fast passes and then not being able to do 2 parks on it, is a game changer.

This is why I think we will see a charge for fast passes in the future.

At first fast passes are for free, but they are not capitalizing on it as much as their competition is.

So Disney takes away fast passes and puts a limit on it to 3 a day and only at one park.

They will let this marinate for a few months and eventually, at a cost, people will get how many fast passes they want back by paying for something that once was for free.

 

[jlsHouston]

And I do agree with @ParentsOf4 opinion that disney is using all of this as a way to get people more motivated to stay onsite versus offsite.
And I won't be surprised at all if they start selling those MB's and like you said offering additional FP+ above the limit of 3 as an add-on for a price...

 

[asianway]

I think the Genie is out of the bottle now and can't stuffed back in. FP's originally were to improve guest complaints about certain rides having huge wait times. I don't think Disney will be able to go backwards and start charging for FP's. Universal never gave them away so people just think they have a choice if they want to spend more money to in the short line. Disney on the other hand would be taking away something that has been for free for years. Big difference, people will be in an uproar.

There would be an uproar, and people will still pay like sheep.

 

[ford91exploder]

Now this is a great post Steve.

Unlike other people, you are at least identifying that during busy times of the year, most likely there will be a lot of people frustrated based on what the system is about.

If you read carefully, other people here blindly ignore the faults because of their own personal love for Disney. And when a debate or conversation starts to not go their way, they then result to name calling and taking jabs. I think as a parent, you can agree that the people who resort to name calling may be to immature for the site.

Agree, Steve's post is one of the most balanced on the subject I've seen in a while

 

[stevehousse]

Thank u guys. We tried the system back in the middle of Nov. It wasn't that crowded, I'd say light/moderate crowds. We liked getting to reserve rides without having to run here and there and everywhere like we did with the old system. Legacy FP was available to us, but we didn't use it because of the FP+ we selected were for all the rides that usually have the long lines.

The bands don't really add anything new for us. We didn't end up spending anymore money than we had planned to, actually less. For the record, we had just gotten life insurance money from my wife's dad passing a few months before, so even though we had a "budget in mind" I went in not really paying attention to what I bought, since I didn't really have to worry about spending all our money. It definitely didn't make me spend more at all! When I got our bill at the end of the trip I went, "that's it?"

The only thing I did like was getting to change times. We did this several times throughout our stay. We never had a problem with our band for anything. Most wait were 20 or less so we changed several times when we got to te ride an saw the wait times. I think that the best advice. If u see a ride with 20 min wait or less, change that FP!

There were 2 instances where the FP line at the entrance to the ride was ridiculous, and both times they were just making one member scan the band to move the line more quickly at the front scanner.

I can only imagine what these lines will look like during spring break or heavy summer crowds...I'm lucky I am able to go during "slow times". If they have rides with lines wrapping around here and there when it's not busy, I can only assume how crazy it will get.

I really wonder what else is going to happen with these FP picks. Will they charge for extras or go with the tiered hotel class system people have talked about(deluxe gettin more picks)

All in all, like I stated earlier, I don't love it, but I didn't hate it either. I can't see how they will b able to recoup the billions they have spent on this...just think if that magic number really is $2,000,000,000 we could have had a new land added to all four parks for that price!

If they were smart, they would have invested that money into the parks with those new additions, And then came out with the bands and FP+ to really entice people to stay on property and actually have a real reason for more guests to return. I think if they would have done that it would definitely have helped them recoup that lost money.

And also, I would ask at every place I used my band and the cms all very much disliked the new system. All I kept hearing was they were having lots of problems with them, especially at restaurants.

 

[doctornick]

I think the Genie is out of the bottle now and can't stuffed back in. FP's originally were to improve guest complaints about certain rides having huge wait times. I don't think Disney will be able to go backwards and start charging for FP's. Universal never gave them away so people just think they have a choice if they want to spend more money to in the short line. Disney on the other hand would be taking away something that has been for free for years. Big difference, people will be in an uproar.

Actually, that's not correct. Uni's system when initially rolled out was set up similar to FP and was free with any admission. It wasn't around for long as a free perk though.

 

[crazynakedguy]

I think the Genie is out of the bottle now and can't stuffed back in. FP's originally were to improve guest complaints about certain rides having huge wait times. I don't think Disney will be able to go backwards and start charging for FP's. Universal never gave them away so people just think they have a choice if they want to spend more money to in the short line. Disney on the other hand would be taking away something that has been for free for years. Big difference, people will be in an uproar.

well the real reason for FP is for crowd control. This way they can actual control where guests are at certain times.

It really doesn't help with the lines at all and in reality the lines would be shorter if they didn't have fast pass. Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, and Pirates for example would both have significantly shorter lines if they got rid of the fast passes and just open both sides of the ride for everyone.

In rides that don't have 2 sides the fast pass slows it down by having to interrupt the flow of the line.

 

[ryan saylor]

On top of revenue coming from upsells and what not, the amount of guests choosing to stay onsite instead of offsite will increase, no doubt, because of MM+. That in itself will be worth the billions already invested.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

A little off topic, but, are you required to scan Magic Bands during extra magic hours to ride?

 

[Disneyfamily4]

How are Magic bands making people stay on site rather then off site? The reason people chose to stay off site is to save money. When I go for two weeks, we stay one week in a resorts at about $4500. The 2nd week we stay in a 4 br private pool home for $650. As long as tickets are purchased in advance, both off site and resort guests are allowed to make fast pass reservations, so again, how are bands convincing people to spend 4 times as much money to stay in a resort?

 

[Disneyfamily4]

If anyone is going to Disney soon, and plan on going to Epcot, you can now chose two tier one rides. Me and a few people from his forum, just changed a tier 2 ride experience and as a replacement, both tier 1 rides show up. I don't know if this is a glitch or change in policy, but for all of us, we have reservations for both test trek and soaring. Just thought everyone should know.

 

[mousehunter96]

was in MK last week and you needed a fast past to get thru the fast pass line! with too few castmembers in this park working fastpass... i see the vision to be great eventually, pretty much on line execution, the interim operations need beefing up for people who are not staying on property and cannot access internet Fpass+. As an annual holder for many years, i felt penalized for not staying on property with the current process in place. also, paper fp allowed for a whole day one at a time execution in parks. 3 FP limit really forces a short day in parks, unless you want to wait for everything else... my largest concern with FP is that ultimately, with the number of people, planning will require requests similar to some disney dining booking (6 months out) or you will be out of luck with all FP taken for those "new rides" before anyone ever steps into the park for a perticular day... BE CAREFUL DISNEY~!

 

[ParentsOf4]

How are Magic bands making people stay on site rather then off site? The reason people chose to stay off site is to save money. When I go for two weeks, we stay one week in a resorts at about $4500. The 2nd week we stay in a 4 br private pool home for $650. As long as tickets are purchased in advance, both off site and resort guests are allowed to make fast pass reservations, so again, how are bands convincing people to spend 4 times as much money to stay in a resort?

Bob Iger, May 7, 2013:

"We have for years had in place products that are available only to hotel guests. And actually, one thing that I think Jay alluded to, didn't say specifically, is the MyMagic+ will definitely encourage people to stay more on-property than off-property. Jay was talking about essentially by being able to plan ahead, people will basically have more plans with us, and that will in effect discourage them from doing other things. I think it will also encourage them to stay more in our hotels."​

And again on February 5, 2014:

"One of the, I think, most attractive features [of MyMagic+] and one that I think will have possibly the biggest benefit is the FastPass+, which is the ability to reserve 3 times on 3 attractions per day, either before you visited the park if you are a resort guest, or the day you enter the park if you are a same day or a single day ticket holder."​

Iger is referring to the ability to pre-book FP+ selections for onsite guests vs. only day-of for offsite guests.

Essentially, onsite guests get preferential access to the best FP+ selections.

Offsite guests will have to go through a song-and-dance similar to FP. Namely, show up for rope drop and immediately head to FP+ kiosks. However, unlike FP, there will be thousands of offsite guests (and presumably AP holders) that already have booked the best FP+ selections. Offsite guests will get what hasn't already been picked over by onsite guests.

And let's not forget that onsite guests can change their FP+ selections via smart phone. Offsite guests need to get back into the FP+ kiosk lines in order to do so.