Lights of Winter not being displayed this year (2009)!?!

[asianway]

If Disney had no plans to install the lights this year for either budgetary purposes or environmental reasons, why would they take them out as if it were time to prepare by cleaning them? It's more likely a combination of the earlier reasons plus a new one: It's likely that Disney brought out the lights to clean the trellises and prepare them for installation, then saw that there was some damage that needed to be repaired. If the cost of repair was not within the maintenance budget and/or the the lights would eat into the budgetary savings of the green bulb conversion, a decision could be made to just cancel the installation. Of course, the latter would certainly feed into the obsolete technology referred to in the message.

It certainly wouldnt be the first time Disney threw the baby out with the bathwater when a repair was not within the budget...

 

[BroganMc]

• The monorail toys are very popular and many people use the toys as decorations around their christmas tree, so I would have made a toy version of the LoW arches that the monorail could go through with lights and sounds.

Now that's an idea. I've incorporated he monorail in my train garden for the last 2 years. You give me an idea for an addition this year.
I've also picked up several mini-light sets for train gardens and one of those music&lights adapters. All I need is some trellis archways.

About those buttons - has anyone thought about sending one of these to each of the Disney executives responsible for the loss of the Lights of Winter?

Truthfully I wasn't sure any letter I sent would get through. But I have received my collection of pins today. (I got magnets too for good measure.) I'm taking them down with me in 2 weeks to help spread the word. I'll make sure I sent my leftovers.

 

[TTA1]

With regards to Customer Services or Guest Relations, I find it quite insulting to get a standard auto response letter, Customer Services should be a personal experience, but I guess we should be thankful it has not yet been moved to a call centre in India.

Wouldn't it be great if someone famous got "on board " and voiced their opinion, then the media may be more interested too. I did see if Whoopi Goldberg, twitters as she is a narrator at CP, but she doesn't appear to.

Disney/WDW can control many things but they can't stop people thinking nor talking and the mind and the spoken word are very powerful things. Are most people wearing LOW badges? T-shirts??

Has any more Christmas decorations been added since the last pics ? Have the white light ball thingys def gone too?

:xmas:

 

[MagicMinnie]

I was peeved to see that these won't be on this year.Our first Christmas at WDW and was so looking forward to seeing them

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Have I taught you nothing, Young Explorer?

Disney doesn't let people know about things that negatively affect their magical WDW vacations in advance.

And even if word had leaked sooner, there was nothing anyone in the fan community was going to do to change things.:xmas:

:lookaroun:lol:


Well, sometimes, Spirit, you have to state obvious things, so as to raise awareness in others. Start or provoke a new line of thought in the conversation, if you will...

Sooner? Maybe not, but maybe so. I seem to remember a October 1st, that while understated by Disney, was still the result of a demand from fans.:wave:

 

[DisneySaint]

In response to your sig, when a museum gets rid of an exhibition, they replace it with another one. In this case, Disney has replaced the LoW with basically nothing. (No, the gospel choir is not a worthy replacement. To use the museum metaphor, thats like replacing an exhibit about the history/evolution of porcelain with a few Chinese porcelain figurines. Sure, you've found a replacement on the same subject, but the size, scope, and meaning of the original exhibit is lost.)

I'm supportive of change; I'm very much NOT supportive of cutbacks.

Wait a second, where are you getting any evidence to draw a conclusion that this is a cutback? Why is everyone so quick to assume this is a cost cutting measure? The fact is the lights ARE old, they sit outside in the elements 365 days a year, and it may very well be true the technology is obsolete. Yes, everything is fixable with enough money, but none of you have any idea how much that would cost nor do you have an idea of what kind of budget Epcot/Holiday Services has to work with. People going all drama and overreacting with buttons, shirts, signs, etc. are just being absurd. It's not going to change anything. Writing a letter is fine - statistics drive change, not some cast member working at Guest Relations or the entrance to Universe of Energy who sees your button. Epcot VP Dan Cokerell (sp?) is not going to be parading around the park, notice buttons, and run to Meg Crofton and plead to pay whatever it takes to ge the Lights back up. I hate to be frank but deal with it, people. When Lone Star Steakhouse got rid of their $9.99 steak bites I quit going there. But to say more than a handful of maniacs will cancel their trip because some lights are put up is ridiculous. And we all know they'll be back. That's what people said about Mr Toad, that's what people said about Horizons, and that's what people said about everything else that's closed. People spaz out then they move on. Write your letter to get your statistic counted, then move on. Spend your time focusing on more important things in life than whether lights are up at a theme park you're going to visit for all of a few days out of the year (if that). You have no idea if the facts behind the decision and if you think you do, then go down to Casting, apply for a job, spend 10-15 years working your way up to a respectable position, then look at your budget vs. increasing attendance and then propose why you think bringing Lights of Winter back is vital to the survival of the company.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Wait a second, where are you getting any evidence to draw a conclusion that this is a cutback? Why is everyone so quick to assume this is a cost cutting measure? The fact is the lights ARE old, they sit outside in the elements 365 days a year, and it may very well be true the technology is obsolete. Yes, everything is fixable with enough money, but none of you have any idea how much that would cost nor do you have an idea of what kind of budget Epcot/Holiday Services has to work with. People going all drama and overreacting with buttons, shirts, signs, etc. are just being absurd. It's not going to change anything. Writing a letter is fine - statistics drive change, not some cast member working at Guest Relations or the entrance to Universe of Energy who sees your button. Epcot VP Dan Cokerell (sp?) is not going to be parading around the park, notice buttons, and run to Meg Crofton and plead to pay whatever it takes to ge the Lights back up. I hate to be frank but deal with it, people. When Lone Star Steakhouse got rid of their $9.99 steak bites I quit going there. But to say more than a handful of maniacs will cancel their trip because some lights are put up is ridiculous. And we all know they'll be back. That's what people said about Mr Toad, that's what people said about Horizons, and that's what people said about everything else that's closed. People spaz out then they move on. Write your letter to get your statistic counted, then move on. Spend your time focusing on more important things in life than whether lights are up at a theme park you're going to visit for all of a few days out of the year (if that). You have no idea if the facts behind the decision and if you think you do, then go down to Casting, apply for a job, spend 10-15 years working your way up to a respectable position, then look at your budget vs. increasing attendance and then propose why you think bringing Lights of Winter back is vital to the survival of the company.

Read the thread...Several people "in the know" and our own Mods, as it seems, have affirmed this. What other reason could there be? Unless the lights are broken (which I doubt), there's no other reason NOT to put them up.

Are they old? Sure. Several thousand things in Walt Disney World are older. Should we take them down, too? No. We upgrade them. If that's the excuse for LoW, they could have EASILY upgraded them, too, seeing that Siemens is a convenient asset.


Drama? Overreaction? This is stating a opinion, and obviously, it does make a difference. Look at DL. Look at other Fan Based demands over the years. Telling management DOES work on a small scale. Why would we stop that?

Important things in life? Sure. In the vast scope of things, this is a non issue. Am I upset? Yes. Is it going to determine my happiness for major events? No. However, this is a DISNEY Discussion Board, and polite, debate and discussion about these sort of issues is the basis and goal for a website such as this.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

They've been known to call people. Cap'tMike got a call from Lansburry about PI...:wave:

I got a call about PI, as well. It happens.

 

[NewfieFan]

Wait a second, where are you getting any evidence to draw a conclusion that this is a cutback? Why is everyone so quick to assume this is a cost cutting measure? The fact is the lights ARE old, they sit outside in the elements 365 days a year, and it may very well be true the technology is obsolete. Yes, everything is fixable with enough money, but none of you have any idea how much that would cost nor do you have an idea of what kind of budget Epcot/Holiday Services has to work with. People going all drama and overreacting with buttons, shirts, signs, etc. are just being absurd. It's not going to change anything. Writing a letter is fine - statistics drive change, not some cast member working at Guest Relations or the entrance to Universe of Energy who sees your button. Epcot VP Dan Cokerell (sp?) is not going to be parading around the park, notice buttons, and run to Meg Crofton and plead to pay whatever it takes to ge the Lights back up. I hate to be frank but deal with it, people. When Lone Star Steakhouse got rid of their $9.99 steak bites I quit going there. But to say more than a handful of maniacs will cancel their trip because some lights are put up is ridiculous. And we all know they'll be back. That's what people said about Mr Toad, that's what people said about Horizons, and that's what people said about everything else that's closed. People spaz out then they move on. Write your letter to get your statistic counted, then move on. Spend your time focusing on more important things in life than whether lights are up at a theme park you're going to visit for all of a few days out of the year (if that). You have no idea if the facts behind the decision and if you think you do, then go down to Casting, apply for a job, spend 10-15 years working your way up to a respectable position, then look at your budget vs. increasing attendance and then propose why you think bringing Lights of Winter back is vital to the survival of the company.

Not comparable! Toad and Horizons were both replaced with equal attractions (I realize that statement is up for debate as well but they were replaced with attractions). Toad was replaced with another dark ride (IMO, Pooh is way better) and Horizons was replaced with Space!

What is LOW being replaced with? Nothing! We wouldn't complain (well, some might) if they were taking down LOW to be replaced with a newer, better, more up-to-date light display... but it's not. It's just being removed with no replacement in sight!!!

 

[MousDad]

Why is everyone so quick to assume this is a cost cutting measure? The fact is the lights ARE old, they sit outside in the elements 365 days a year, and it may very well be true the technology is obsolete.

I'll go with Yetis, Sasquatch, the Corona Crash, Majestic 12, Nessie and Champ, waaaaaaaaay before I would ever go with the phrase "technology is obsolete" being uttered anywhere at TWDC (in relation to LoW) prior to November 11, 2009.

 

[MythBuster]

Wait a second, where are you getting any evidence to draw a conclusion that this is a cutback? Why is everyone so quick to assume this is a cost cutting measure? The fact is the lights ARE old, they sit outside in the elements 365 days a year, and it may very well be true the technology is obsolete. Yes, everything is fixable with enough money, but none of you have any idea how much that would cost nor do you have an idea of what kind of budget Epcot/Holiday Services has to work with. People going all drama and overreacting with buttons, shirts, signs, etc. are just being absurd. It's not going to change anything. Writing a letter is fine - statistics drive change, not some cast member working at Guest Relations or the entrance to Universe of Energy who sees your button. Epcot VP Dan Cokerell (sp?) is not going to be parading around the park, notice buttons, and run to Meg Crofton and plead to pay whatever it takes to ge the Lights back up. I hate to be frank but deal with it, people. When Lone Star Steakhouse got rid of their $9.99 steak bites I quit going there. But to say more than a handful of maniacs will cancel their trip because some lights are put up is ridiculous. And we all know they'll be back. That's what people said about Mr Toad, that's what people said about Horizons, and that's what people said about everything else that's closed. People spaz out then they move on. Write your letter to get your statistic counted, then move on. Spend your time focusing on more important things in life than whether lights are up at a theme park you're going to visit for all of a few days out of the year (if that). You have no idea if the facts behind the decision and if you think you do, then go down to Casting, apply for a job, spend 10-15 years working your way up to a respectable position, then look at your budget vs. increasing attendance and then propose why you think bringing Lights of Winter back is vital to the survival of the company.

I guess it depends on who you want to believe? CM's with inside info or people on the internet with their own theories? When we heard the info, it was definitely a cost cutting move. They didn't try to give us that lame excuse about obsolete technology because everyone would have just laughed at them. If that was the case, they would have to shut down half of Epcot.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think if someone were to make a documentary about the Lights of Winter's last rehersal performance and then releases it into theaters under the title, "Seriously, This is It", and then watch it make approximately $23 million over the opening weekend, I'd say there's a decent chance that Disney takes the Lights of Winter and move them to Disneyland for a limited engagement.

 

[EpcotServo]

I think if someone were to make a documentary about the Lights of Winter's last rehersal performance and then releases it into theaters under the title, "Seriously, This is It", and then watch it make approximately $23 million over the opening weekend, I'd say there's a decent chance that Disney takes the Lights of Winter and move them to Disneyland for a limited engagement.

:lol: :sohappy:

Ha! Perfect.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I got a call about PI, as well. It happens.

Ah, cool from who?

I think if someone were to make a documentary about the Lights of Winter's last rehersal performance and then releases it into theaters under the title, "Seriously, This is It", and then watch it make approximately $23 million over the opening weekend, I'd say there's a decent chance that Disney takes the Lights of Winter and move them to Disneyland for a limited engagement.

:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

 

[BroganMc]

People going all drama and overreacting with buttons, shirts, signs, etc. are just being absurd. It's not going to change anything.

I take it you have never studied the concept of viral marketing? It's this thing where one person educates another and so on until a large enough population acts on that knowledge that just their simple action speaks louder than words.

I know because of my learning about LoW cancellation from this forum I've talked about it enough that others are amending their touring plans for this season. Some never even realized this was there before or what it was.

The action people are hoping to encourage is for EPCOT attendance to be down and complaints about the lacking decor up at Guest Relations (and every outlet Disney uses to measure guest satisfaction). We're realists here. We know the lights won't be brought back out this year. But we can either accept it or reject it.

Realistically, the best we can hope for is that the choir bombs as a crowd pleaser and TDO evaluates guest response come January-Feb realizing they need to put more into the budget for light displays at EPCOT for next Christmas season.

Given what I know of the area, and recent pictures/reports, I don't think it will take much to get the disappointment response from guests. As soon as it gets dark, that whole area will be very stark and ugly. The choir will add some noise and light but unless they are even more compelling than CP they're more likely to illicit complaints from guests for congestion.

The illogical thing to me is the TDO thought it was a good idea to have two choirs performing in the evenings at EPCOT. One with a very expensive dinner package and the other entirely free standby. As a guest, if both groups provide a similar experience for me, I'm happy to pass up Candlelight Processional and go for the free concert instead. Doesn't it seem like they're undercutting their own potential revenue pool by introducing competition?

 

[TURKEY]

Realistically, the best we can hope for is that the choir bombs as a crowd pleaser and TDO evaluates guest response come January-Feb realizing they need to put more into the budget for light displays at EPCOT for next Christmas season.

Given what I know of the area, and recent pictures/reports, I don't think it will take much to get the disappointment response from guests. As soon as it gets dark, that whole area will be very stark and ugly. The choir will add some noise and light but unless they are even more compelling than CP they're more likely to illicit complaints from guests for congestion.

The illogical thing to me is the TDO thought it was a good idea to have two choirs performing in the evenings at EPCOT. One with a very expensive dinner package and the other entirely free standby. As a guest, if both groups provide a similar experience for me, I'm happy to pass up Candlelight Processional and go for the free concert instead. Doesn't it seem like they're undercutting their own potential revenue pool by introducing competition?

No, they introduced the choir much too late as everyone had already paid for their Candlelight packages.

 

[royorb1]

Wow I feel like this will make the Illum. tag just a little empty as we turn to head out of Epcot. It was so awesome when My Daughter and I were walking out through the LoW in 2005. I like to know what's going on but now I wish I didn't have to think about this because I believe it will be a real disappointment when we see the park in a couple of weeks.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I take it you have never studied the concept of viral marketing? It's this thing where one person educates another and so on until a large enough population acts on that knowledge that just their simple action speaks louder than words.

I know because of my learning about LoW cancellation from this forum I've talked about it enough that others are amending their touring plans for this season. Some never even realized this was there before or what it was.

The action people are hoping to encourage is for EPCOT attendance to be down and complaints about the lacking decor up at Guest Relations (and every outlet Disney uses to measure guest satisfaction). We're realists here. We know the lights won't be brought back out this year. But we can either accept it or reject it.

Realistically, the best we can hope for is that the choir bombs as a crowd pleaser and TDO evaluates guest response come January-Feb realizing they need to put more into the budget for light displays at EPCOT for next Christmas season.

Given what I know of the area, and recent pictures/reports, I don't think it will take much to get the disappointment response from guests. As soon as it gets dark, that whole area will be very stark and ugly. The choir will add some noise and light but unless they are even more compelling than CP they're more likely to illicit complaints from guests for congestion.

The illogical thing to me is the TDO thought it was a good idea to have two choirs performing in the evenings at EPCOT. One with a very expensive dinner package and the other entirely free standby. As a guest, if both groups provide a similar experience for me, I'm happy to pass up Candlelight Processional and go for the free concert instead. Doesn't it seem like they're undercutting their own potential revenue pool by introducing competition?

Could not agree with you more. The Choir is nice, but will not cut it.

Wow I feel like this will make the Illum. tag just a little empty as we turn to head out of Epcot. It was so awesome when My Daughter and I were walking out through the LoW in 2005. I like to know what's going on but now I wish I didn't have to think about this because I believe it will be a real disappointment when we see the park in a couple of weeks.

At least we still have the Illumi Tag....:dazzle:

 

[royorb1]

Could not agree with you more. The Choir is nice, but will not cut it.

At least we still have the Illumi Tag....:dazzle:

Yes, you are right, I really did love the tag. I have to dig out my video of the LoW.

 

[imagineer boy]

I've never been to WDW during the holidays, could someone tell me where the lights of winter would take place at Epcot? What section of the park?