Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Basil of Baker Street]

It's comical what some people will report as fact.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I do think there has to be a happy medium between uber-planning 60 days out and having to wake up every morning to get your lightning lane reservations while on vacation. You already have to have park reservations, so maybe the answer is to go to a scheduling model where you pick your return time, and if you have a multi-day Genie pass attached to your ticket, you can pick your first attractions a week before your ticket starts. That would be good for Disney because it would encourage more people to get length of ticket Genie+.

Shifting the booking window just shifts the problems. Instead of passes running out at whatever time day of it’ll just happen before. It’ll just be a mad scramble the week before for the fewer spaces.

The happy medium is adequate capacity. There’s no getting around that.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Everyone realizes that so many WDW guests are “hyper-planners” (not as many as this thread believes, but a significant number) because Disney forced them to be, right? Entertainment trains its audience, and WDW trained guests that they will have a worse time without a detailed plan featuring ADRs, ride reservations, etc.

FP+ benefitted guests who wanted to tightly plan their day 60 days out. I think that’s an extremely odd way to vacation at a theme park, and I don’t think I’m alone. It disadvantaged other guests. The system wasn’t necessarily better, but it was better for a particular group. This system is better for on-site guests who desire slightly (but not much) greater flexibility. It’s all just musical chairs on a sinking ship without added capacity.

 

[mikejs78]

Shifting the booking window just shifts the problems. Instead of passes running out at whatever time day of it’ll just happen before. It’ll just be a mad scramble the week before for the fewer spaces.

The happy medium is adequate capacity. There’s no getting around that.

Look no one disagrees at Disney could use more capacity, but that's not something that is going to happen for years even if they fully committed to it right now. So we are where we are, and that's with the capacity we have and a line skipping system of some sort just like every other theme park in the United States. So the question is what's the best format for that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Look no one disagrees at Disney could use more capacity, but that's not something that is going to happen for years even if they fully committed to it right now. So we are where we are, and that's with the capacity we have and a line skipping system of some sort just like every other theme park in the United States. So the question is what's the best format for that.

That’s just it, the format people want to go back to requires more capacity. You can’t sit here and say “That’s not realistic” and then lament the system that hit its breaking point because it required more capacity to function at scale.

 

[Jrb1979]

Look no one disagrees at Disney could use more capacity, but that's not something that is going to happen for years even if they fully committed to it right now. So we are where we are, and that's with the capacity we have and a line skipping system of some sort just like every other theme park in the United States. So the question is what's the best format for that.

The best format is to be like every other park and limit who buys it. Get rid of return times as well.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Look no one disagrees at Disney could use more capacity, but that's not something that is going to happen for years even if they fully committed to it right now. So we are where we are, and that's with the capacity we have and a line skipping system of some sort just like every other theme park in the United States. So the question is what's the best format for that.

It could happen very quickly. Parades in each park (just as there used to be). Fill every theatre or performance space with new shows. Add more streetmosphere and impromptu performances. That could all happen in a little over a year or less. Over two years or so a plethora of new rides could be added. Other steps could also be taken - make stores more distinct and fill them with unique merchandise, for instance.

WDW could make a real dent in the capacity issues very quickly if they cared even a little.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I'm going to predict that by the end of 2022, Genie+ will morph into something that is closer to what FP+ was then what Genie+ is today.

My guess is that eventually you will be able to select return times, more stuff will be added like meet and greets, and resort guests may get a perk of early booking - maybe not 60 days, but maybe on the first day of their trip or it advance of their trip by like a week or something.

I could be wrong, but just a hunch. I think G+ at DLR will stay as is. The max pass format works well for DLR but not for WDW.

I’m going to say… this is as likely as Chapek returning the dream lights to the castle. Unless of course they send out a press release trumpeting the return of Disney’s Cinderella Castle Dreamlights. A magical celebration of 10 strands of lights around one turret.

 

[HauntedPirate]

That’s just it, the format people want to go back to requires more capacity. You can’t sit here and say “That’s not realistic” and then lament the system that hit its breaking point because it required more capacity to function at scale.

Sure you can! Plus, you can then posit/complain that adding capacity just increases crowds, so why bother adding capacity because it just makes things worse.

 

[mikejs78]

I’m going to say… this is as likely as Chapek returning the dream lights to the castle. Unless of course they send out a press release trumpeting the return of Disney’s Cinderella Castle Dreamlights. A magical celebration of 10 strands of lights around one turret.

Oh it will still be paid. Just closer to FP+ in the way it works.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Oh it will still be paid. Just closer to FP+ in the way it works.

I imagine that if it’s closer to FP+, the price will go up to $30 or more. For starters!

 

[dreday3]

I imagine that if it’s closer to FP+, the price will go up to $30 or more. For starters!

Maybe you pay for how many you want to be able to pre-book - like 3 is a certain amount, then you can bump up to 6 for more money, etc., maybe more money to book earlier than others....

....didn't we bounce ideas like this around before we knew about Genie?

 

[Villains0501]

It could happen very quickly. Parades in each park (just as there used to be). Fill every theatre or performance space with new shows. Add more streetmosphere and impromptu performances. That could all happen in a little over a year or less. Over two years or so a plethora of new rides could be added. Other steps could also be taken - make stores more distinct and fill them with unique merchandise, for instance.

WDW could make a real dent in the capacity issues very quickly if they cared even a little.

I mentioned this above, but it was amazing to me during my recent visit two weeks ago how DHS still manages to pack people into its theaters, show after show. I sort of understand the continued popularity of the Frozen show, since its still a relatively new property, but Beauty and the Beast, a 30 year old show and property, still commanded huge crowds.

Likewise, in AK, FotLK, Flights of Wonder (or whatever it's called now), and even Kite Tails also garnered massive audiences.

And yes to parades, diversified shops (once the supply issues are resolved), and general streetmosphere. Bring it all back!

 

[el_super]

Why do you assume that it's not best for the guests to have some level of planning rather than waking up every morning at 7:00 a.m. to try to book a fast pass while on vacation?

Planning, or more specifically hyper-planning everything out months in advance is difficult to communicate if you're Disney, and difficult to understand if you're a guest. It shouldn't take a calendar or spreadsheet to figure out what you are going to do for the day.

I think there is a bias, among people here specifically, that see the planning as part of the fun, but I don't think that's normal. I know it's just as anecdotal as everyone else's opinion now, but I think Disney was trying to reduce the burden of planning because the majority of their guests are still frustrated by it. I would think that the worry on Disney's part here, is that the people used to hyper-planning won't be around forever, and it's too complicated to pick up for potential new guests. Eventually years down the road that could hurt their image/attendance

What isn't an opinion is that Disney is definitely trying to curb the need for planning. Certainly the reasons why are still up for debate.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Maybe you pay for how many you want to be able to pre-book - like 3 is a certain amount, then you can bump up to 6 for more money, etc., maybe more money to book earlier than others....

....didn't we bounce ideas like this around before we knew about Genie?

Little did we know that Disney could possibly make things even more complicated. At least now we know that it can only get worse. Much worse.

 

[el_super]

Everyone realizes that so many WDW guests are “hyper-planners” (not as many as this thread believes, but a significant number) because Disney forced them to be, right? Entertainment trains its audience, and WDW trained guests that they will have a worse time without a detailed plan featuring ADRs, ride reservations, etc.

I actually disagree with this. I usually cringe when people say this, but I think social media was actually the root of the problem. Almost every major Disney theme park site in the 1990s were coming up with touring strategies and help guides that were all based on the idea that more rides = better time. Once people were posting trip reports where they were getting 10 rides, 20 rides or 30 rides in a day, it started the arms races.

If anything Disney was really, really slow to react to the change in guest strategy.

 

[Villains0501]

I actually disagree with this. I usually cringe when people say this, but I think social media was actually the root of the problem. Almost every major Disney theme park site in the 1990s were coming up with touring strategies and help guides that were all based on the idea that more rides = better time. Once people were posting trip reports where they were getting 10 rides, 20 rides or 30 rides in a day, it started the arms races.

If anything Disney was really, really slow to react to the change in guest strategy.

We sort of felt this way when we were last down there - like we were 'collecting' experiences/attractions versus actually experiencing them. And maybe that's on us. Maybe we have fatigue from having ridden some of these rides too many times. But part of the thrill for me in riding Slinky, Rock and Roller Coaster, and ToT back-to-back early in the AM wasn't from the attractions themselves, but from the notion that I was 'beating' the crowds and 'collecting' the top experiences with minimal waits.

I couldn't really be in the moment, but was instead focused on anticipating where the crowds would be next by the time I got off 'x' ride. I don't remember feeling that way in the past, but, again, it might be due to general trip fatigue or to feeling the pressure to beat Disney's Genie+ system.

 

[el_super]

Sure you can! Plus, you can then posit/complain that adding capacity just increases crowds, so why bother adding capacity because it just makes things worse.

It does make things worse. That's why Disney isn't trying it.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the problem is and what's going on here. It's not a lack of system wide capacity, but of specific capacity related to the most popular/newest attractions that is causing the issue.

People aren't complaining that they can't get a reservation for Little Mermaid. Or have to wake up at 7AM to get a reservation for Dumbo.

 

[el_super]

We sort of felt this way when we were last down there - like we were 'collecting' experiences/attractions versus actually experiencing them.

Yeah that's how I pretty much feel. It's the gamification of Disney Parks. A Business model run on FOMO.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

That’s just it, the format people want to go back to requires more capacity. You can’t sit here and say “That’s not realistic” and then lament the system that hit its breaking point because it required more capacity to function at scale.

Both formats require adequate capacity. LL selections for popular rides sell out in minutes because people know that if they don't make them their first selection then they won't get it at all unless they get lucky and someone else cancels their LL selection later.