Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
that’s your opinion.

Massive websites like touring plans, underground tourist, easy wdw, etc. etc. wouldn’t exist if people weren’t (overly)planning their wdw vacations.
The presence of a market doesn’t mean it is the dominant market nor does it mean it is desired. Walt Disney World was geared to favor the fewer who planned so people sought to understand the system. Something like Touring Plans couldn’t function if the vast majority of people were using it because it would completely screw up the patterns that are measured.
 

dig311dug

Well-Known Member
Perhaps not the vast majority. But wdw vaca planning is def. NOT a niche. Have you seen the thousands of “influencers” on social media with planning “tips and tricks” in addition to the aforementioned sites?

edit: forgot to mention travel agencies mostly dedicated to planning peoples wdw and DL vacations.

this ain’t a niche man.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm deeply sceptical of the notion that planning for a WDW trip is a novelty or something that wouldn't have benefitted guests in the good old days. The first Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World was published back in 1985, complete with touring plans and a section entitled "Planning before you Leave Home". My first trip to WDW was in the early 1990s, when I was too young to plan anything and at the mercy of my parents, who didn't have a clue about the parks. Needless to say, we spent a lot of time queuing.
You constantly conflate things and can't tell the difference in what is being talked about. Planning with travel guides in the 80s is nothing like the 'planning' people are talking about where people are locked into parks, dining, and rides months in advance.

We used the official travel guides from the start (1981). The travel guides were helpful so you knew what was there, what to expect, and to help you plan your trip. But yet, we didn't lock ourselves into hard schedules 6 months in advance. We didn't have to reserve every major action you went through.

The consequence of not planning back then was more about 'not knowing something was available', or understanding the visitation patterns, or maybe missing out on that table service that day because you didn't know how bookings were done. Even in later years where other guides started coaching more on how to optimize your visit to minimize crowds... we're still nothing like what is being discussed here with FP+ vs Genie+.

Back in the day 'planning' was about KNOWING what was there and gaining familiarity so you got the most of your trip. There were no websites to prep you, no youtube tours. You read books to know what the offerings were. Planning was about knowledge of the product so you could focus on the things that interested you -- and less so about avoiding waits. That was just a smaller piece of things. Because then it was more about knowing crowd patterns, and insights that may not be as common knowledge to the general population back then (like riding during parades, etc). It was more about TIPS and insights - It wasn't about creating minute by minute or step by step movement tables like things have become as people try to optimize everything to death.

When it was only 2 theme parks.. you didn't even goto the parks every day necessarily. Disney has been pushing the "gotta see it all" and commando scheduling for over a decade now and it's become a monster.
 
Right. It would be interesting what kind of feedback Disney is getting and what specifically people don't like about Genie+. I mean, obviously people will not like the cost but there's various other aspects that could be getting criticism and they would have different solutions

No system is going to work great for everyone (due to a general lack of capacity compared to crowds) as it is all just shuffling deckchairs. But there's probably some system (even if it is paid) that would be most accepted and "liked" and I don't think Genie+ is it. Considering how much goodwill is being burned through right now, the company would benefit from figuring out a system that would be viewed more positively by most guests and encourage return visits in the future.
Seems like they do know what to do: extremely high priced hard ticket events.
I bet they will bring back Morning Magic and try to cram two hard ticket events into one day.

At this point, that is what I would pay for. I do NOT want to spend all day staring at my phone and hitting refresh, and even then not know how the day will unfold. But my family would do less days in the park and choose a price point nearly double the hard ticket entry to have the experience actually be pleasant
 
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Chi84

Premium Member
You constantly conflate things and can't tell the difference in what is being talked about. Planning with travel guides in the 80s is nothing like the 'planning' people are talking about where people are locked into parks, dining, and rides months in advance.

We used the official travel guides from the start (1981). The travel guides were helpful so you knew what was there, what to expect, and to help you plan your trip. But yet, we didn't lock ourselves into hard schedules 6 months in advance. We didn't have to reserve every major action you went through.

The consequence of not planning back then was more about 'not knowing something was available', or understanding the visitation patterns, or maybe missing out on that table service that day because you didn't know how bookings were done. Even in later years where other guides started coaching more on how to optimize your visit to minimize crowds... we're still nothing like what is being discussed here with FP+ vs Genie+.

Back in the day 'planning' was about KNOWING what was there and gaining familiarity so you got the most of your trip. There were no websites to prep you, no youtube tours. You read books to know what the offerings were. Planning was about knowledge of the product so you could focus on the things that interested you -- and less so about avoiding waits. That was just a smaller piece of things. Because then it was more about knowing crowd patterns, and insights that may not be as common knowledge to the general population back then (like riding during parades, etc). It was more about TIPS and insights - It wasn't about creating minute by minute or step by step movement tables like things have become as people try to optimize everything to death.

When it was only 2 theme parks.. you didn't even goto the parks every day necessarily. Disney has been pushing the "gotta see it all" and commando scheduling for over a decade now and it's become a monster.
I've always planned and used FP+ but never had the type of negative experiences you're describing. It wasn't necessary to plan every single minute and lock yourself into parks - we often changed parks, dining reservations and even FP+ if rain was a problem or the day was just too hot to go to a theme park rather than a water park. Of course, not everything could be changed last minute, but on our last trip with Genie+ Safari was down during our window and we weren't able to get back to it that day. I can't help but think that people who were having experiences like the ones you describe just weren't using the system correctly. In any event, I think we just have to accept that different people prefer different things. It's okay that enough people disliked FP+ in order for Disney to change the system; it's not necessary to "prove" that the system didn't work for anyone or that the people who did like it were wrong or edge cases.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
I've always planned and used FP+ but never had the type of negative experiences you're describing. It wasn't necessary to plan every single minute and lock yourself into parks - we often changed parks, dining reservations and even FP+ if rain was a problem or the day was just too hot to go to a theme park rather than a water park. Of course, not everything could be changed last minute, but on our last trip with Genie+ Safari was down during our window and we weren't able to get back to it that day. I can't help but think that people who were having experiences like the ones you describe just weren't using the system correctly. In any event, I think we just have to accept that different people prefer different things. It's okay that enough people disliked FP+ in order for Disney to change the system; it's not necessary to "prove" that the system didn't work for anyone or that the people who did like it were wrong or edge cases.
We were on the mixed planning. First 3 FP was of course scheduled, and other than those and ADR dinner or lunch we did what we felt like at the time. Many times DH wanted a resort break (nap) and it wasn't a big deal. Sometimes that meant he'd ride transport back himself while DD and I did our own thing, then meet back up. Other times he napped while we went to the pool.
Genie+ seems like people should plan to be in a park or two a majority of the day. Also seems like they want to avoid guests making ADRs at resorts because they are generally less expensive. But the unpredictable nature of Genie+ makes it more a risk to book resort ADRs because of travel time needed.
 

danv3

Well-Known Member
Touring plans just bought a lighting lane for the parade today. $32 for 2 spots.



Weird but Len and touring plans deleted the tweet.

I think they deleted it because it seemed to imply (at least to me) that it was an ILL, rather than part of Genie+.

Of course that confusion is really Disney's fault due to the overly complicated and poorly-named system they put in place.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
I've always planned and used FP+ but never had the type of negative experiences you're describing. It wasn't necessary to plan every single minute and lock yourself into parks - we often changed parks, dining reservations and even FP+ if rain was a problem or the day was just too hot to go to a theme park rather than a water park. Of course, not everything could be changed last minute, but on our last trip with Genie+ Safari was down during our window and we weren't able to get back to it that day. I can't help but think that people who were having experiences like the ones you describe just weren't using the system correctly. In any event, I think we just have to accept that different people prefer different things. It's okay that enough people disliked FP+ in order for Disney to change the system; it's not necessary to "prove" that the system didn't work for anyone or that the people who did like it were wrong or edge cases.
I think you might be looking at this a bit too much as an assault on personal preferences when it's not intended as such. Some people are planners. Others aren't. That's totally cool. There's nothing wrong with you enjoying the structure FP+ gave you or even finding it to be helpful in planning your vacation. The point is that the way Disney has to actually handle attraction reservations that span the entire day is operationally/logistically problematic, antithetical to their own goals for the service, and incongruous with the design of the parks. You should be able to plan to your heart's content, but you shouldn't need FastPass to do it. If you do, something is really, really wrong (and not with you; with the parks).
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
I'm going to predict that by the end of 2022, Genie+ will morph into something that is closer to what FP+ was then what Genie+ is today.

My guess is that eventually you will be able to select return times, more stuff will be added like meet and greets, and resort guests may get a perk of early booking - maybe not 60 days, but maybe on the first day of their trip or it advance of their trip by like a week or something.

I could be wrong, but just a hunch. I think G+ at DLR will stay as is. The max pass format works well for DLR but not for WDW.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
I'm going to predict that by the end of 2022, Genie+ will morph into something that is closer to what FP+ was then what Genie+ is today.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, but if it does happen, it sort of proves that the hyper-planning set forced Disney back into their mold, rather than Disney deciding what was best for everyone. I'm not exactly sure of what the issue is, but for Disney to spend the money implementing a whole new system like Genie+, there is obviously some major issue with FP+ that they needed to address.


Because Disneyland Resort has better capacity than Walt Disney World.

Surprise: I don't think it's a capacity issue. I think the audience at Disneyland is made up of far more locals who have seen/done everything and like to take things far more leisurely than the hyper-planners at WDW. And of course people going to DLR are generally spending a lot less to be there than people flying into Florida.

That the systems can be so radically different at two identical theme parks is a good indication that the guests are driving the bus.
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
Surprise: I don't think it's a capacity issue. I think the audience at Disneyland is made up of far more locals who have seen/done everything and like to take things far more leisurely than the hyper-planners at WDW. And of course people going to DLR are generally spending a lot less to be there than people flying into Florida.

That the systems can be so radically different at two identical theme parks is a good indication that the guests are driving the bus.
I agree that part of it could be the persona or style of the visitors at DL. However, at DL there are so many rides not even taking part in LL that you could ignore it entirely. WDW is set up differently and has much lower capacity per guest.

Anecdotally, as a young man I had a business trip out to California near San Jose, and was just stunned by how much more laid back the attitudes were there. I fumed at a local takeout restaurant at how slow they moved and ended up being back 15 minutes late for lunch. Turns out I was the first one back and this is just how quickly people moved there at the time.

So that was one small experience, but coming from the east coast where everything seems rushed and hectic it felt unnatural. Furthermore, on a recent trip out to DL we stopped off in La Jolla for a bit of sightseeing. There by some cliffs at the edge of the ocean there are kneewalls and signs pointing you to the 24 hour lifeguard stations nearby if you need help. On the East coast there would be no lifeguards whatsoever after dark, and large fences with signs to warn you not to be an idiot and fall over. It's just stunning the completely different takes on how best to enjoy the natural environment safely, and what resources to put into those sites.

I don't see locals at DL having any interest in planning their fastpasses 30 days in advance. Plus they don't need to use the 31-60 day window as a carrot to beg people to stay at their hotels. Those are pretty damn full all the time.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, but if it does happen, it sort of proves that the hyper-planning set forced Disney back into their mold, rather than Disney deciding what was best for everyone.
Why do you assume that it's not best for the guests to have some level of planning rather than waking up every morning at 7:00 a.m. to try to book a fast pass while on vacation?

Anyways, I forget who said it, but it was someone who mentioned that Disney actually had originally developed Genie+ along the scheduling model where you pick your return time - and even with resort guests having a way to book stuff at the beginning of their trip. It was somewhat last minute where they decided to go with the MaxPass-like route - It may not have been for guest experience at all, but rather for operational efficiency, sharing of code between DLR and WDW, etc.

I do think there has to be a happy medium between uber-planning 60 days out and having to wake up every morning to get your lightning lane reservations while on vacation. You already have to have park reservations, so maybe the answer is to go to a scheduling model where you pick your return time, and if you have a multi-day Genie pass attached to your ticket, you can pick your first attractions a week before your ticket starts. That would be good for Disney because it would encourage more people to get length of ticket Genie+.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
We used the official travel guides from the start (1981). The travel guides were helpful so you knew what was there, what to expect, and to help you plan your trip. But yet, we didn't lock ourselves into hard schedules 6 months in advance. We didn't have to reserve every major action you went through.

The consequence of not planning back then was more about 'not knowing something was available', or understanding the visitation patterns, or maybe missing out on that table service that day because you didn't know how bookings were done. Even in later years where other guides started coaching more on how to optimize your visit to minimize crowds... we're still nothing like what is being discussed here with FP+ vs Genie+.

Back in the day 'planning' was about KNOWING what was there and gaining familiarity so you got the most of your trip. There were no websites to prep you, no youtube tours. You read books to know what the offerings were. Planning was about knowledge of the product so you could focus on the things that interested you -- and less so about avoiding waits. That was just a smaller piece of things. Because then it was more about knowing crowd patterns, and insights that may not be as common knowledge to the general population back then (like riding during parades, etc). It was more about TIPS and insights - It wasn't about creating minute by minute or step by step movement tables like things have become as people try to optimize everything to death.

When it was only 2 theme parks.. you didn't even goto the parks every day necessarily. Disney has been pushing the "gotta see it all" and commando scheduling for over a decade now and it's become a monster.
Leaving aside conflating issues, I am not sure there is any value, or ability to compare what was taking place or the business model in the 1980's and now. I mean we are talking about a time difference of 40 years. Would you really compare a business's operations and offerings from the 1940's to the 1980's? Times change, trends change, and business operations change. I don't know of any company that offers comparable services, for comparable costs, over the course of a 40 year period. So while I think its fair to say you may like the way it was done better in the 80's I don't think that there can be a reasonable expectation that any company would go back to how things were done (and I mean both from a perspective of implementation/technology and theme/mission statement.)
 

Villains0501

Well-Known Member
That other site is reporting Lightning Lane spots were overbooked for today’s Christmas parade at MK, and some guests who had made a reservation were being automatically pushed out of the system with no notice.

Apparently, folks whose LL bookings had been automatically canceled were being turned away at the parade viewing spot, 30 minutes before showtime. Hopefully, they get some extra LL pass in return. Otherwise, if the report is true, poor form on Disney’s part.
 

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