Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Buried20KLeague]

Those numbers might be off a little, but seem pretty close. Especially for people who DON"T want LL to have a large effect on the ride experience.

If you want to limit the effect of LL on the standby line, you do that by decreasing the percentage of the overall ride throughput that is dedicated to LL. But you still want it to be a viable independent profit center, which means you increase its cost. That great thing about dynamic pricing is the market sets the price.

Would I pay $100 to rise RotR? Now, no, but then again I had the chance to ride it last month, am going back to WDW in December, and then going back again in July. If I hadn't gotten a boarding group in September would I have paid $100 to make sure I got on the ride...absolutely. If in December I hadn't gotten on the ride yet and I didn't know when i was going to be back to the park, would I pay $100 to guarantee a ride....shut up and take my money. Now would I do that for Guardians or Tron? No, but I not a roller coaster person. But I am sure my wife and kids would/will do so.

In addition, my brother in law, who is not a Disney person, is taking his family for their once in a lifetime trip to WDW next year. I guarantee he would spend the $100 to make sure they get on RotR, or other rides, knowing this is the only time they are going to be going to WDW, and not wanting to waste the time there in lines, or run the risk of not getting on the major rides.

What percentage of guests to Disney do you think would be willing to plop down $400 for a family of 4 for a ride on Rise via LL?

Somewhere in the halls of TDO, someone is reading this and drooling all over his keyboard.

 

[LovePop]

$180 to $400 for a family of four to skip the line on a single ride. On top of admission? Even WDW in its heyday wasn’t worth that.

Please tell me you’re joking. Either way, I swear we are living in a very, very strange time.

I'm not joking at all. I'm not trying to suck up to Disney or be inconsiderate of people who can't pay. I'm talking about supply and demand. I won't be paying that kind of money myself, I assure you. I can afford it, but I still won't be paying. For me and my family, I'm planning to never go on RotR and just pretend that it doesn't exist. We've never been on it, and what my kids have never experienced will never hurt them. I'm just saying that all the RotR passes should go to people who are willing to pay the most for it, like anything else. Have you heard of the new Star Wars hotel? Disney wants $3000 per night for it. Most families will never get there because they can't pay.

With RotR, there is another way. Disney can distribute the passes in a more equitable manner. For example, people who purchased 3 days or longer tickets can be guaranteed 1 pass each, for a modest fee. People who has been on RotR in the last week (or the last month) cannot get another pass unless there's extra availability. People with APs should not be allowed more than 10 passes a year, and none during holidays or other extra high crowd times, unless there's extra availability.

But you know that Disney will never bother. Instead, they had their ridiculous boarding group where people get ahead not with money but with fast fingers. With the old boarding group system, I've heard of people when went on several WDW trips without being able to book RotR once. I also know this guy who went on RotR every single day for several months since it opening, until he finally tired of it. He lived close and had a fast cell phone with extra data connection. Basically, the Boarding Group was free, it's just that you can't get it unless you are a single guy without a steady job. Despite the disastrous BG experience with RotR, Disney is using it again on the Remy ride.

But Disney hasn't always been this way. Back in the day when BOG restaurant first opened, Disney emailed me with a single pass to go eat lunch there once for my 10 day ticket. So I did and didn't have to wait at all. I never went again, but it seemed like everybody got the chance to experience it once, which was nice. Disney doesn't know how to be equitable anymore.

But nowadays, the only options are money or the guy who can work the fingers the fastest at 7 am. Between the two, I choose money. If nothing else, it provides the family who really need to get on RotR just once in their lifetime the opportunity to do so. Not to mention providing Disney some extra cash.

For me and my family, we are never going on RotR, that's all.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Its going to be some sort of dance in balancing the two things LL is supposed to do - get revenue but also pricing to discourage too many people from using it. To make it truly simple - if the cost is $20 and the line is 4 hours long AND it sells out at 1pm, that means there was more demand and people would probably pay more. If you make it $40, now the line is 2.5 hours long BUT if users are the same (or double) its even more revenue - so both objectives are filled. If it's $100 and standby is an hour, but you still sell out (presumably later that 1pm now) - everyone is happy - revenue is way up, the standby guests are happier. But its a balance. If you hit $100, too many people DON'T buy it. the standby line remains long and revenue goes down. (Sort of how those "Lexus Lanes" work on a highway).

I think the problem is Disney's objective is to monetize places in line as high as they can while balancing an acceptable number of complaints at GR. They're starting where they're starting... But it will increase, till that pain point is reached.

The question is... What's the pain point, and how high can they go?

I think they know the ceiling is probably a lot higher than it has been initially set at... But I think $100 per is far and away going to be too high a ceiling.

But it will be death by 1000 cuts. They'll increase paid LL first. Then Genie+. Then increase allocations to both. All while keeping a side eye on the line outside GR. Rinse, repeat.

 

[Parker in NYC]

RotR needs to go up to at least $100 by Christmas. $45 sounds right for moderate times of the year like right now.

And you’re ok with this? You endorse this?

 

[fgmnt]

Guests will get marketed to death about it though. I would imagine more marketing dollars will go into this than even the FP system... Because they'll profit from this and didn't from that.

Yep, vacation planning will be trying to upsell on anyone who comes to the ticket windows. GET will be happy to direct people into the app. I'm sure whoever works in the part of ride ops for Lightning Lane verification has also been trained on how to direct an upsell to confused and distressed guests. I have no need to go buy a ticket online myself, but I imagine you'll get popups and shiny directions to just tack that bad baby on before checkout.

I think if anything, you can point out a tactical error by not providing a little taste of the new smack for free or cheap, or allowing a nominal discount for buying it onsite and length of stay... but I'm certain the division knows how to do this one thing well: make the easy money.

 

[ShookieJones]

I can't believe people are actually paying the $15 dollar IA fee to the point where it's selling out early.
Chappie must be whistling through the halls, saying hello to the mailroom guy, high fiving the janitor....


Based on the way people talk around here I think I would qualify as a rube in a lot of WDW scenarios, but I can tell you that this particular 'rube' WILL NOT be paying IA fee for ANY ride.

Will I go to WDW and spend a lot of my money on other things? Definitely, but I am not giving into this BS.
We have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[trainplane3]

...

Do not quote me with TouringPlans data. TouringPlans is a marketing tool from Disney to help spread out crowd flow and they use Disney's officially released posted/actual wait time data. The posted wait times have always been higher than actual, and ever since the elimination of Fastpass, they have been overposting them even more drastically so people didn't catch on to the difference so easily. It is in Disney's best interest, now more than ever, to maintain the illusion that Fastpass does not increase standby wait times. Thus, the official data they release is going to be skewed to enforce that.

Hey @lentesta, might want to correct something with this comment here

 

[Disstevefan1]

I'm not so sure. FP+ allowed every resort guest 60 days out and non-resort guests 30 days out to pick 3 FP+ reservations in advance then to add one rolling FP after the first three. Add all those up for every guest on every day. That's a lot of reservations prior to arrival. Is it any wonder that Standby was so long. Genie+ and ILL is only allowed day of. I don't think wait times will be anywhere as near as with FP+ but we could reasonably assume standby wait times would go up somewhat because there is a ride reservation system in place at all.

Agreed, as I replied in other posts, there are many are in the camp that FastPass + made all wait times longer because basically every attraction was a FastPass + and they gave out so many; as a result both the FastPass + AND the standby wait times were longer.

IF they truly limit LLs then MAYBE BOTH the LL wait times AND the standby wait times will be shorter?

Right after I first posted this the first time, I was thinking and I do worry that Disney will "creep up" the number of LLs (to make more MONEY in response to guest demand ) and before you know it, we are back where we were.

Lets see what happens..

 

[pdude81]

I can't believe people are actually paying the $15 dollar IA fee to the point where it's selling out early.
Chappie must be whistling through the halls, saying hello to the mailroom guy, high fiving the janitor....


Based on the way people talk around here I think I would qualify as a rube in a lot of WDW scenarios, but I can tell you that this particular 'rube' WILL NOT be paying IA fee for ANY ride.

Will I go to WDW and spend a lot of my money on other things? Definitely, but I am not giving into this BS.
We have to draw the line somewhere.

Yes, for the ride you couldn't even pay to get on before. Everything else seemed to have some availability for a long time. As crowds return this may well change though.

Also consider how high prices have risen across the board in recent years. I don't see why this one is particularly worse than others if you are fine with spending a lot of money there.

 

[fgmnt]

Excuse me while I vomit.

Yeah in my experience, as someone who is enough of a weirdo to be on this board, I've been enough that I'm able to balance my privilege, increasingly jaded attitude, and my occasional frugality into sitting in a 4 hour standby line before I fork over ILL money. Or I'll just say c'est la vie and move on in life.

If you're willing to tack on $400 for a ride, I would earnestly suggest researching a trip to at least TDR instead.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It shouldn't be the same because not everybody will pay for Genie+ or LL, which means all lines, paid or unpaid, should be shorter. The difference is from people who skip a ride because the don't have a pass, but they would have gone if they had a free pass.

If everybody pays for Genie+ and LL like it's free, then things should be nearly the same as when there were free fastpasses.

So far, it looks to me like half the people won't be paying anything. That should translate to a tremendous reduction for all line wait times, compared to the past free system. It's not an improvement for people who don't pay but use the free fastpass frequently.

Yup, way too early to tell, and Disney will probably make tweaks over time (to make more MONEY in response to guest demand)

We will see what happens..

 

[bruin086]

Disney should really charge less to add G+ to a trip beforehand since it has to be added to all days. Eg $10 per day instead of $15 per day if it's added at least 2 weeks in advance

I'm going on trip in December with 9 days in the parks. I don't need G+ for 4 days ( the epcot and AK days) so why would I add G+ now? If it was cheaper to add in advance though, I probably would go ahead and just add it for the whole trip

 

[ShookieJones]

Yes, for the ride you couldn't even pay to get on before. Everything else seemed to have some availability for a long time. As crowds return this may well change though.

Also consider how high prices have risen across the board in recent years. I don't see why this one is particularly worse than others if you are fine with spending a lot of money there.

I didn't say I was smart but I did say I have to draw the line somewhere. This is my line.

I don't mind a DG+, honestly it's a lot like MaxPass at DL and I got my money's worth and enjoyed that thoroughly.

 

[Patcheslee]

What percentage of guests to Disney do you think would be willing to plop down $400 for a family of 4 for a ride on Rise via LL?

Somewhere in the halls of TDO, someone is reading this and drooling all over his keyboard.

The same ones that booked Starcruiser maybe? Wonder if they get a complementary LL

 

[JakeAZ]

Wonder if they get a complementary LL

At those prices...even if it's included, it's not complementary

 

[el_super]

Somewhere in the halls of TDO, someone is reading this and drooling all over his keyboard.

They already offer the private VIP tour, which offers "efficient" access to attractions. That starts at something like $3000, but that's for 7 hours and up to ten people, so overall it might still be cheaper than an individual selection at $100 a pop.

 

[BrianLo]

I was somewhat worried there would be pressure to increase ILL selections >2 per park. Based on the very limited out of gate data, I don't think that will be the case. I too see how there is a strange financial incentive for them not to go overboard with ILL, because most of the parks Genie+ lineup would be too anemic. Apart from the castle parks.

The optimistic side of me actually thinks the pressure might go the opposite way. There is little point in Everest, Space, Rat or MMRR remaining in the pool. Obviously SDD, Tron and Guardians are likely going to be swapped.

BUT I actually think there exists a tiny world where this system causes them to approve an expensive ride for AK. Strictly because there is financial incentive to get attractions that will sell consistently on ILL. Everest isn't going to sell. Kilimanjaro isn't going to sell. NRJ is a C-ticket.

I'd even argue that pressure will apply to Epcot too. I don't think it has a single attraction that really justifies ILL currently. Guardians *presumably* will be the first.

As it stands I think Epcot presents the worst value for Genie+. You are paying 15$ almost exclusively for Test Track and Soarin' right now. I don't think either of those are "7 dollar" attractions. I also really don't think as a result Disney can push the price to 20$, at least until Guardians opens.

 

[JakeAZ]

As it stands I think Epcot presents the worst value for Genie+.

Agree. With AK not far behind. I would think the best use for those parks would be for start in - hop out / hop to only.

 

[hopemax]

It's a bit disheartening to read so few posts about how to not pay for a formerly free service and so many posts on strategies to use once it is purchased. I guess Disney research really does know their customer.

This board and social media would explode if Disney raised the admission price 33% but that is exactly what happens if you buy Genie+ and two ILL per day. Even more for longer stays.

It’s still way too early to tell what those strategies are. There is not nearly the utilization and crowd levels to make firm conclusions. The ones you can make are the same ones that have been true and practiced for years. Rope drop, evening, keep an eye on the wait times to see when things drop, ride during big entertainment and meal times. The most popular rides are the same ones they were last week, last month, last year. Occasionally, be willing to simply wait or skip, sacrificing that one thing for the ability to do 3 things with minimal wait.

But I am sure TouringPlans will be all over it in time. We all are in data collection mode, not peer reviewed study mode

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I was somewhat worried there would be pressure to increase ILL selections >2 per park. Based on the very limited out of gate data, I don't think that will be the case. I too see how there is a strange financial incentive for them not to go overboard with ILL, because most of the parks Genie+ lineup would be too anemic. Apart from the castle parks.

The optimistic side of me actually thinks the pressure might go the opposite way. There is little point in Everest, Space, Rat or MMRR remaining in the pool. Obviously SDD, Tron and Guardians are likely going to be swapped.

BUT I actually think there exists a tiny world where this system causes them to approve an expensive ride for AK. Strictly because there is financial incentive to get attractions that will sell consistently on ILL. Everest isn't going to sell. Kilimanjaro isn't going to sell. NRJ is a C-ticket.

I'd even argue that pressure will apply to Epcot too. I don't think it has a single attraction that really justifies ILL currently. Guardians *presumably* will be the first.

As it stands I think Epcot presents the worst value for Genie+. You are paying 15$ almost exclusively for Test Track and Soarin' right now. I don't think either of those are "7 dollar" attractions. I also really don't think as a result Disney can push the price to 20$, at least until Guardians opens.

It does create at least for now a new incentive/budget for developing new LL quality rides. You can budge in projected revenue of a high demand LL fee into your budget to offset costs of new construction. If it works out really well, when a new ride comes on line, maybe you increase the number of LL rides to 3 for a certain time, with the brand new ride having a higher demand premium LL cost, prior to phasing out the lower revenue generating presumably older LL ride. I would also argue any ride that has a boarding group model needs to have an even higher premium cost to its LL. For normal LL rides, you are just buying the benefit of not having to wait in line. For a boarding group ride, your buying yourself a guaranteed spot in the ride, as opposed to just a lotter chance.