News Lasseter taking leave of absence

SorcererMC

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Retro Oswald said:
I don't get why this is still dragging on? He should be gone by now
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JL's alleged behavior problem has been described as 'fueled by alcohol', a complicating factor here into how HR is handling this, because alcoholism is a medical issue covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act . It doesn't mean he can't be held accountable for his behavior, but from what I've read it means that they can't outright fire him for it without prior documentation (eg of performance issues and how HR addressed it); the employer has to make 'reasonable accommodation'.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
SorcererMC said:
He reportedly made out with a staffer at a 2010 Oscar's party, the incident which allegedly brought Iger's attention to his inappropriate behavior. So, the notion that JL 'had to be told' last year that his behavior was inappropriate or that JL was unaware is bogus.

ETA: Even consensual behavior can be considered sexual harassment, and the typical standards for defense of such behavior does not apply to high-ranking company officials. JL has been a liability since at least 2010, provided that reports are accurate.
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Reportedly, by whom?

Has the alleged victim told their story, or is this another "they are reporting someone said that someone said..." things?

Dang, this is what is so dangerous...

In any case, I stand by what I said - "he reportedly made out with someone 8 years ago at social event" isn't even an accusation. Did the person object? You are saying, "well, if this happened, the person could object later..."

My goodness, is this really the world we live in? Where we can just debate the fate of someone based on innuendo, rumor, anonymous sources? And in this case, almost everyone who has "anonymously" come forward to talk about hasn't actually been an alleged victim. Man, I really wonder what it must be like to have my fate debated incessantly online, people speculating all the worst, most terrible things. I have never been so glad to be a nobody in my life.
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
SorcererMC said:
JL's alleged behavior problem has been described as 'fueled by alcohol', a complicating factor here into how HR is handling this, because alcoholism is a medical issue covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act . It doesn't mean he can't be held accountable for his behavior, but from what I've read it means that they can't outright fire him for it without prior documentation (eg of performance issues and how HR addressed it); the employer has to make 'reasonable accommodation'.
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Lasseter has been noticeably drunk at official Company events in the recent past. See the videos of 2017 D23 Expo as an example. You are right that this is probably an HR nightmare for Disney since no one ever formally disciplined him and there is no HR documentation on him.

But if a lowly ride operator CM had been drunk at a Company function, you can darn bet they’d be hauled to HR, documented the heck out of, and then shown the door.

There was obviously a different set of HR rules for senior execs like Lasseter. Or apparently no set of rules at all, and now Disney has a real mess on their hands because of failure to hold people accountable.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Mmoore29 said:
We have not heard anything more about sexual advances on Lasseter's part. If there were more than unwanted and awkward contact (and a public sloppy, tongue action kiss) on the part of a (potentially) autistic man who has a problem with the bottle, it would've come out. It's a shame that most of the media on the "Lasseter Watch" is still reporting it all as "evidence that he is a sexual predator" and many in the #LoseLasseter campaign have conflated what he did with that. They are not focusing on what the real, potentially damning things about him are and why people may not want him to go back: his allegedly having turned Pixar into his personal fiefdom, taking credit for things he didn't have so much to do with, and being considered a belligerant, bullying tyrant.

If that picture is true, then that suggests that Lasseter was basically Steve Jobs' lapdog, and so in awe of him and how he ran things at Apple that he decided to take that management style to Pixar and Disney Animation. It suggests that Jobs, while being someone who could keep Lasseter in line, was also simultaneously a bad influence who, along with the flush of success and accolades, corrupted him and utterly transformed him into something unpleasant. And even then, we can't be completely sure that it is true, given that those who worked most closely with him haven't commented publicly, the man who claims to have created Cars and that Lasseter appropriated credit from is basically the animation equivalent of Lars von Trier (and all that it implies), and the only one who has said anything, Chris Montan, states that "that isn't the John that I know."

Regardless, if Lasseter has been working on himself all this time, has been humbled, and is healthier, there is no reason not to bring him back without having his prior power, and giving the reins in terms of leadership to Pete Docter, Brad Bird, Rich Moore and Jennifer Lee. Of course, if he hasn't, and is still in denial about himself, or won't return without simply taking back his old job when it isn't prudent, then Iger has to cut the strings. I feel that is very fair and deserving.
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Exactly. And if there are more accusations, then I sincerely hope that they are made and everyone can get on with life. I have no idea - maybe the man is just as bad as Weinstein or Cosby - but I'm not willing to hang someone when there aren't even actual accusers to begin with, anonymous or not. When you go and read the scant links people give, it's the same two things - one, 15 years ago one guy witnessed what he thought was someone defensing against a hand on a knee, and what he says someone said back then, and that 8 years ago he made out with someone at a social event (no hint whatsoever of it not being consensual) and was told "hey, don't be making out at parties".

I'll say it again - if he is the world's biggest scumbag, then let's hear it. But people are using their imaginations way too much on this one.

The other thing you see when reading the Hollywood Reporter article about his "darkness" - man, someone really doesn't like him. You find a few disgruntled people over a 30 year career, and you can make a hell of hit piece on someone (deserved or not, I couldn't say here, but that clearly is the intention). Someone wants to illustrate quite a narrative. It may be accurate, it may be not - but it is clear someone is gunning for him to never be heard from again. And it goes far, far beyond his "me too" issues - someone is just trying to use that as the silver bullet, much like how they got Roseanne, just waiting for the right angle to pounce on.
 
SorcererMC

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
You are saying, "well, if this happened, the person could object later..."
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No, that's not what I said. I cited the 2010 Oscar Party as a counterpoint example because you continually assert that his behavior was confined to knee-touching at office meetings. It means his alleged inappropriate behavior wasn't 'behind closed doors'.

AEfx said:
Reportedly, by whom?
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Reportedly is used for purposes of diction and clarity. It doesn't matter if the accuser is on the record as a source - Vanity Fair and THR reported it. Provided they are following journalistic standards, they had some corroboration/ not just printing rumors.

Finally - I said that JL's position as a high-ranking executive at the company meant that the standards of sexual harassment were different. (When asked for clarification, I provided a direct link to EEOC guidelines and copied the relevant text.)
 
S

shernernum

Well-Known Member
SorcererMC said:
No, that's not what I said. I cited the 2010 Oscar Party as a counterpoint example because you continually assert that his behavior was confined to knee-touching at office meetings. It means his alleged inappropriate behavior wasn't 'behind closed doors'.


Reportedly is used for purposes of diction and clarity. It doesn't matter if the accuser is on the record as a source - Vanity Fair and THR reported it. Provided they are following journalistic standards, they had some corroboration/ not just printing rumors.

Finally - I said that JL's position as a high-ranking executive at the company meant that the standards of sexual harassment were different. (When asked for clarification, I provided a direct link to EEOC guidelines and copied the relevant text.)
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The question was asked "reportedly by whom?" and you answered "Vanity Fair and THR." You didn't specify in the initial post, so AEfx was asking for clarification, because without the source, it could have been the sister of a parking lot tram driver. Now we know the source and I can only assume that there were journalism standards in place when the reports occurred....and that makes them carry more weight.

While I also understand that it is possible that Lasseter is a predator on the level of Cosby and Weinstein, AEfx's points should be well taken. If we are going to vilify someone it needs to be with something substantial, because what is being "reported" is going to ruin their career and maybe their life. Let's make sure they deserve that before it happens. Sooner or later, there are going to be a few people (perhaps there already have been) who are falsely accused due to money or just a grudge, whose lives will end up on the trash heap. When that happens and it is learned to be the truth, it could undermine all the progress that has been made over the last 8-10 months on this issue.

I believe there is fire under all the Lasseter smoke, or he wouldn't have been so quick to make his statement and take his leave, and I don't ever want to see him near Disney/Pixar again, however, I also have to remember that some of that is my opinion and is based on the conclusions I have made after what I have seen and heard.... and I have been wrong before.
 
SorcererMC

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
shernernum said:
AEfx's points should be well taken. If we are going to vilify someone it needs to be with something substantial, because what is being "reported" is going to ruin their career and maybe their life. Let's make sure they deserve that before it happens. Sooner or later, there are going to be a few people (perhaps there already have been) who are falsely accused due to money or just a grudge, whose lives will end up on the trash heap. When that happens and it is learned to be the truth, it could undermine all the progress that has been made over the last 8-10 months on this issue.
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I agree that AEfx's points should be considered, especially re: potential ulterior motives of why/when the story broke...but it is speculative, which is why I'm not commenting on it.

With respect to false accusations - IMO it comes with the job. That might sound callous to some here, but my perspective is based on having family members who were high level execs. Individuals in leadership positions cannot or should not be negligent of their personal and professional legal risks, liabilities, and responsibilities and should adopt strategies accordingly. I imagine that the past several months have been quite difficult for his family and I do empathize.

shernernum said:
I believe there is fire under all the Lasseter smoke, or he wouldn't have been so quick to make his statement and take his leave, and I don't ever want to see him near Disney/Pixar again, however, I also have to remember that some of that is my opinion and is based on the conclusions I have made after what I have seen and heard.... and I have been wrong before.
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I personally haven't commented on what I think the appropriate consequences for JL ought to be because....I don't know all of the facts, what kind of case HR has built or not. I think he'll retire quietly with as little fanfare as possible. I think your position is a reasonable one, if the allegations are true.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
shernernum said:
because what is being "reported" is going to ruin their career and maybe their life. Let's make sure they deserve that before it happens.
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Let's also be clear that Lasseter is a 61-year old who could live comfortably off the money and status he's amassed over the decades with Disney, and the worst case scenario here is that his departure might cause his drinking habits to worsen.

We're not talking about some middle-aged manufacturer from Ohio who's living paycheque-to-paycheque while supporting his family.
 
mikejs78

mikejs78

Premium Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
Let's also be clear that Lasseter is a 61-year old who could live comfortably off the money and status he's amassed over the decades with Disney, and the worst case scenario here is that his departure might cause his drinking habits to worsen.

We're not talking about some middle-aged manufacturer from Ohio who's living paycheque-to-paycheque while supporting his family.
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Does that really matter though? If he's guilty, he should be villified. But if he's innocent, the amount of money he has doesn't justify whether or not his name/reputation deserved to be dragged through the mud, or that he lose the ability to do the job he loves.

I agree, I'd like to see more evidence before we try and convict Lasseter. The innuendo in the articles cited above was far from conclusive.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
mikejs78 said:
If he's guilty, he should be villified. But if he's innocent, the amount of money he has doesn't justify whether or not his name/reputation deserved to be dragged through the mud, or that he lose the ability to do the job he loves.
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Of course not, but we don't need to create this false narrative that he's hanging by a thread and would never rebound or recover if he departed Disney. The man has enough talent, connections (and yes, money) to find other was to earn a living or express himself.

That's probably why Disney would have second thoughts about him leaving. The minute he does, someone else might take him. That could all happen without any criminal prosecution or statement from Disney beyond "he's retiring to spend time with his family".
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
Of course not, but we don't need to create this false narrative that he's hanging by a thread and would never rebound or recover if he departed Disney. The man has enough talent, connections (and yes, money) to find other was to earn a living or express himself.

That's probably why Disney would have second thoughts about him leaving. The minute he does, someone else might take him. That could all happen without any criminal prosecution or statement from Disney beyond "he's retiring to spend time with his family".
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But wouldn’t he be a bigger liability for his theoretical next employer if he doesn’t behave himself there?
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
But wouldn’t he be a bigger liability for his theoretical next employer if he doesn’t behave himself there?
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Not really sure about bigger liability. If Lasseter can't be professional in a work environment (or at company functions), it'll look bad no matter who he's working for. At least a new hire could explain their training practices to discourage such behavior, say they acted quickly to stop the problem from continuing, or simply say they didn't think he would be that bad.

One would hope that if he was kicked out of Disney for legit reasons, he would take the hint and do better next time.
 
Rodan75

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
My assumption is that on July 3rd, after the launch of TSL and PP and a successful Incredibles 2 release. Lasseter will quietly retire, he will not be a pariah but no Legends award. (I thought he already had one, but I guess not)

June was always too busy a Pixar month for any final Lasseter decision.
 
Tom P.

Tom P.

Well-Known Member

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