News Lasseter taking leave of absence

[Sir_Cliff]

A corner stone of sexual harassment is that the accused harasser needs to be told to stop. You can argue "he shouldn't have needed to be told!" but that's not how it works.

I don't agree with this. I think there are many inappropriate behaviours in which you can engage in the workplace that can get you fired without someone having to tell you to stop at the time. Particularly if you're in a position of power and people may have felt their jobs would be in jeopardy if they said something. The big question here seems to be why Disney didn't do anything earlier, and we know the answer.

The truth is - since nothing new has even been alleged after all this - it really was just "unwanted hugs and knee touching" from a guy who apparently had a severe drinking problem. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT, but it also does not justify erasing him from existence. He has now been made fully aware. I'm sure that behavior will not continue.

I get what you're saying and I'm also worried about the rush to judgement in many of these cases often only on the basis of an allegation. The truth, though, is that we don't know whether it was just hugs and kisses. Even if it was, I can't show up to work drunk and hug and kiss people or run my hand up a co-worker's knee in a meeting until they tell me to stop. I'm positive I'd be fired on the spot.

 

[AEfx]

I don't agree with this. I think there are many inappropriate behaviours in which you can engage in the workplace that can get you fired without someone having to tell you to stop at the time.

*YOU* can agree or disagree with it, but it is how sexual harrassment claims work. /shrug

I get what you're saying and I'm also worried about the rush to judgement in many of these cases often only on the basis of an allegation. The truth, though, is that we don't know whether it was just hugs and kisses.

Again, you can believe whatever you want, but the facts remain that nothing additional has come out, and we don't even have an accuser in the first place here. The allegations were from someone who said that someone else said/felt.

And I'm sorry, but we are hitting the point here where if people still claim they are "afraid to come forward" I really can't see how much more can be done for them. Accusers have been given carte blanche to make any accusations they want and to see the public rally for them and demonize anyone who ever looked at someone funny at this point - if there are accusers, who have had six months plus now to make accusations, and they have stayed silent - well, so be it. We need to stop infantalizing women and pretending that they all are all cowering beings terrified of the big bad men. An adult person has a responsibility to report behavior they want action taken on. A man cannot be hanged on suspicion of things no one has even accused him of.

It is so odd to me that the people who seem to love him the most want to assume the worst and almost seem to want it to be more than it is.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

It's kinda like sports. Take the Cleveland Cavaliers for example: If Cedi Osman (who?) was to be accused of questionable behavior (not rape, not murder), he would probably be released from the team. But if the accused is LeBron James - he'll get a quick suspension, some "re-training" and be back on the court ASAP.

What's happening with Mr. Lasseter is closer to the latter.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

*YOU* can agree or disagree with it, but it is how sexual harrassment claims work. /shrug

So bosses need a warning about feeling up their employees before a sexual harassment claim can be made? You might be right, but it would surprise me if someone couldn't be dismissed or even charged on the basis of a complaint made after the fact.

Again, you can believe whatever you want, but the facts remain that nothing additional has come out, and we don't even have an accuser in the first place here. The allegations were from someone who said that someone else said/felt.

My point is that we don't know much about what the allegations were, regardless of what has come out. All we know is that Disney got rid of him quickly after the MeToo movement exploded and no-one has emerged from anywhere as far as I am aware to dispute the claims in any of the press articles about his behaviour. They have been very lucky, though, that it has been contained to just those articles with a limited readership. If Disney does bring him back, that will be a sign they seem to feel very confident nothing else is suddenly going to come out regarding past inappropriately sexual behaviour or settlements.

 

[WDWTank]

it must be really awkward now when seeing the pre-show at the Disney Pixar film festival in Epcot when they get to the Pixar segment and Lassiter is on the screen talking about the origins of the company.

It’s outdated now.

 

[AEfx]

So bosses need a warning about feeling up their employees before a sexual harassment claim can be made? You might be right, but it would surprise me if someone couldn't be dismissed or even charged on the basis of a complaint made after the fact.

We can't have this conversation if you keep escalating what we are talking about. We are talking laws and corporate regulations - which are all about specificity. When you say "feeling up" you are making it sound like he was throwing women up against the wall and sticking his hand under their bra.

And with the hugs, I guess this is a surprise to everyone but it isn't all that weird for creative/entertainment people to give hugs to "celebrities", even in a business meeting. For some it was uncomfortable (and as all the stories detailed, intentionally kept this discomfort from his knowledge) but don't you think 100 people a week come up and try to hug him? Have you seen the guy? He looks like a hairless cheery Santa Clause that half the people reading this would have gladly hugged and gotten a selfie with. So it isn't like we are talking meetings at TD Banknorth or an a pharmaceutical company.

My point is that we don't know much about what the allegations were, regardless of what has come out. All we know is that Disney got rid of him quickly after the MeToo movement exploded and no-one has emerged from anywhere as far as I am aware to dispute the claims in any of the press articles about his behaviour. They have been very lucky, though, that it has been contained to just those articles with a limited readership. If Disney does bring him back, that will be a sign they seem to feel very confident nothing else is suddenly going to come out regarding past inappropriately sexual behaviour or settlements.

And my point is, if he had really done anything more, I do think we would have heard about it by now. Come on, Disney! LOL. We know how crazy the media goes for Disney - we saw it this week. If there were any more serious allegations, we would have heard about it.

Not to mention, how does someone "refute" anonymous accusations of this nature? The "I thought his hand was going to go up by thigh" story that is the most egregious was "someone told me it happened", who told to a reporter 3rd hand - anonymously. Even if the reporter had other people agree, it's all freaking anonymous and who can come out and say "that isn't true, no one ever said that"? If it's a double-blind anonymous source, there is no one who can claim that they know what every other Disney employee may or may not have claimed.

 

[Phil12]

And my point is, if he had really done anything more, I do think we would have heard about it by now. Come on, Disney! LOL. We know how crazy the media goes for Disney - we saw it this week. If there were any more serious allegations, we would have heard about it.

Not at all likely. It's an internal issue and TWDC will do its best to keep it that way for the protection of the victims, Lasseter and most of all Iger and TWDC. I'll bet that the lawyers have been very busy signing up many people to nondisclosure agreements over the past eight or nine months. It's possible that Lasseter may decide to fight back and spill all the beans and only then might we get a glimpse of his true "missteps". Otherwise, for the benefit of TWDC, the Disney PR office will continue to work on the five step process to make him a saint. They are experts in this regard.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Not at all likely. It's an internal issue and TWDC will do its best to keep it that way for the protection of the victims, Lasseter and most of all Iger and TWDC. I'll bet that the lawyers have been very busy signing up many people to nondisclosure agreements over the past eight or nine months. It's possible that Lasseter may decide to fight back and spill all the beans and only then might we get a glimpse of his true "missteps". Otherwise, for the benefit of TWDC, the Disney PR office will continue to work on the five step process to make him a saint. They are experts in this regard.

Really, you think Disney is “protecting” the victims by allowing John to return?

 

[AEfx]

Not at all likely. It's an internal issue and TWDC will do its best to keep it that way for the protection of the victims, Lasseter and most of all Iger and TWDC. I'll bet that the lawyers have been very busy signing up many people to nondisclosure agreements over the past eight or nine months. It's possible that Lasseter may decide to fight back and spill all the beans and only then might we get a glimpse of his true "missteps". Otherwise, for the benefit of TWDC, the Disney PR office will continue to work on the five step process to make him a saint. They are experts in this regard.

Where have you been?

We are in the post-non-disclousre era. If you think that internally they are still pushing accusers to sign non-disclosures, then you haven't been paying much attention. Even previous ones have pretty much become null and void when it comes to sexual harassment claims - you do realize that in order for Disney to enforce one, they would have to initiate legal action? Do you really think that in June of 2018 with everything we have witnessed over the past nine months or so, that Disney wouldn't be crucified if it went after someone accusing someone of sexual harassment by filing a suit against them. The mob would demand Iger's hide on a silver platter.

All that is not to mention, 90% of these stories have all been "anonymous" accusers, anyway. If their names are not published, just disclosed to the journalists, it would be difficult to prove in the first place.

What you are saying may have been true, maybe even two or three years ago. But now? At a company like Disney? The last thing they are asking potential victims to do is to sign an NDA. That would be a suicidal public relations faux pas.

 

[Bairstow]

Ugh, it's so disgustingly frustrating. I looked up to him, and used to say that he was the closest thing to a Modern (American) Walt Disney.

Probably apt- to the extent that he was a managerial figure who took (or was given) credit for the creative output of others because it's more marketable to associate a single recognizable face than a constantly changing studio.

 

[Phil12]

Where have you been?

We are in the post-non-disclousre era. If you think that internally they are still pushing accusers to sign non-disclosures, then you haven't been paying much attention. Even previous ones have pretty much become null and void when it comes to sexual harassment claims - you do realize that in order for Disney to enforce one, they would have to initiate legal action? Do you really think that in June of 2018 with everything we have witnessed over the past nine months or so, that Disney wouldn't be crucified if it went after someone accusing someone of sexual harassment by filing a suit against them. The mob would demand Iger's hide on a silver platter.

All that is not to mention, 90% of these stories have all been "anonymous" accusers, anyway. If their names are not published, just disclosed to the journalists, it would be difficult to prove in the first place.

What you are saying may have been true, maybe even two or three years ago. But now? At a company like Disney? The last thing they are asking potential victims to do is to sign an NDA. That would be a suicidal public relations faux pas.

I'll reiterate. They are experts in this regard.

 

[AEfx]

Really, you think Disney is “protecting” the victims by allowing John to return?

Do you not think that he indeed, after all this, may be ready to change his behavior and they won't need "protecting" any more? Particularly since as the reports say he would no longer be in a supervisory role. I think the man has learned to avoid hugs or other unwanted casual contact.

Now, if you are saying "well, they may still feel threatened, even if he changes his behavior and they don't have to interact with him any more just because he works somewhere in the company" - well, given the circumstances here, I think that's called "learning to adult". Sorry, he has taken his licks, his reputation has been tarnished with this, it has been duly noted, anything more is just people seeking revenge, not justice.

 

[AEfx]

I'll reiterate. They are experts in this regard.

You can reiterate the past all day, LOL - I'm talking here in the present, where the public relations department now trumps the legal department because companies like Disney are much much more terrified of social media and "public outcry" than anything else
.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It is so odd to me that the people who seem to love him the most...

I sure don't. I think he's largely lived out his usefulness with the company, and things like Cars 3 and Pixar Pier show how limited the scope of his influence or ability to care much are at this point. There's no reason to keep feeding his expensive ego if there's not much to show for it.

For Disney, the scandal is the perfect excuse to get rid of him with minimal fuss.

 

[brb1006]

Ugh, it's so disgustingly frustrating. I looked up to him, and used to say that he was the closest thing to a Modern (American) Walt Disney. And then all this came to light.

I even feel skeevy watching my Toy Story Blu-Ray and having the director intro with him grinning at me.

Don't forget his introduction to a few Studio Ghibli films on DVD back when Disney had the distributing rights. Especially since he fond of Hayao Miyazaki's work and meet a few times.

 

[Rodan75]

I suspect that no decision will be announced until after June 30th, either way a stealth announcement on July 3rd seems likely. Especially if he is out.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Do you not think that he indeed, after all this, may be ready to change his behavior and they won't need "protecting" any more? Particularly since as the reports say he would no longer be in a supervisory role. I think the man has learned to avoid hugs or other unwanted casual contact.

Now, if you are saying "well, they may still feel threatened, even if he changes his behavior and they don't have to interact with him any more just because he works somewhere in the company" - well, given the circumstances here, I think that's called "learning to adult". Sorry, he has taken his licks, his reputation has been tarnished with this, it has been duly noted, anything more is just people seeking revenge, not justice.

“Learning to adult” can also mean a mass exodus of talent from the studio too. Netflix is building their own feature animation department right now. How many people can they risk losing if John comes back?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

We can't have this conversation if you keep escalating what we are talking about. We are talking laws and corporate regulations - which are all about specificity. When you say "feeling up" you are making it sound like he was throwing women up against the wall and sticking his hand under their bra.

That's not what I meant to imply at all; what you're describing sounds like violent assault. I meant running his hand up a co-worker's thigh in a meeting. My understanding has always been that you can't just do that kind of thing in the workplace until you're told to stop.

And my point is, if he had really done anything more, I do think we would have heard about it by now. Come on, Disney! LOL. We know how crazy the media goes for Disney - we saw it this week. If there were any more serious allegations, we would have heard about it.

Not to mention, how does someone "refute" anonymous accusations of this nature? The "I thought his hand was going to go up by thigh" story that is the most egregious was "someone told me it happened", who told to a reporter 3rd hand - anonymously. Even if the reporter had other people agree, it's all freaking anonymous and who can come out and say "that isn't true, no one ever said that"? If it's a double-blind anonymous source, there is no one who can claim that they know what every other Disney employee may or may not have claimed.

I have more faith in Disney's ability to manage their PR.

If what you suggest is true and that John Lasseter has lost his job for doing nothing more than giving some big, cheery hugs and kisses, then I agree he has been wronged. My reading of the sabbatical and the articles in the Hollywood Reporter, Variety, and elsewhere is different from yours in part because I have yet to see any other picture emerge of what was going on from people who knew or worked with Lasseter. I don't agree with you that it's not possible to defend Lasseter's reputation against the stories that have been published. Piecing together what we can see from the outside, no ground-work also seems to have been done to prepare for Lasseter's return. So, I really just don't see why or how Disney would bring him back now.

 

[Phineas]

Don't forget his introduction to a few Studio Ghibli films on DVD back when Disney had the distributing rights. Especially since he fond of Hayao Miyazaki's work and meet a few times.

That Spirited Away intro was so weird/forced.

"YOU are LUCKY. YOU get to watch SPIRITED AWAY."

Now, mind you, Spirited Away is an amazing film. But--eek.

 

[brb1006]

That Spirited Away intro was so weird/forced.

"YOU are LUCKY. YOU get to watch SPIRITED AWAY."

Now, mind you, Spirited Away is an amazing film. But--eek.

I remember seeing him in the intro to Kiki's Delivery Service.