LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

[Darkbeer1]

So I am working a Recall Josh Newman event, and a Disneyland CM started a conversation with me (no idea who I was). She was telling me that the day Bernie Sanders is here in Anaheim, UniteHERE wants CM's to attend the rally, then work a phone bank to tell people to vote No on the recall... The main reason for the recall wad his vote to raise the Gas and Diesel Tax, plus increase vehicle registration fees on all vehicles, including a special new fee for electric vehicles. It is a very regressive tax that hurts the poor the most. With most CM's commuting a Fair distance, it could add $1,000 or more to their yearly expenses. Why are they fighting for higher wages at the same time they want the CM's to pay more at the pump?

 

[Deleted member 107043]

$15 starting rate announced for Disneyland Resort “Master Services” cast members by 2020

 

[Disney Irish]

$15 starting rate announced for Disneyland Resort “Master Services” cast members by 2020

Watch now that this new contract is in place the Union backed Resort District initiative will suddenly have issues and disappear.

Someone needs to just put an initiative on the ballot to raise Anaheim's city-wide minimum wage to $15 and not just the Resort District. I still think other issues need to be tackled, but I'd at least support that.

BTW, I'm happy some CMs got an increase.

 

[TP2000]

$15 starting rate announced for Disneyland Resort “Master Services” cast members by 2020

That's great news! In my opinion, Disneyland wages for entry-level unskilled positions like ride operators, burger flippers, custodians, etc. should always be a couple of dollars above the state minimum wage. That's the only way you could get service levels that are close to what In-N-Out or Chick-fil-A offers their customers now.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

What? How can you do this? This is outrageous! It's unfair! How can you be a cast member and NOT be a master?!

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

That's great news! In my opinion, Disneyland wages for entry-level unskilled positions like ride operators, burger flippers, custodians, etc. should always be a couple of dollars above the state minimum wage. That's the only way you could get service levels that are close to what In-N-Out or Chick-fil-A offers their customers now.

The devil is in the details. This proposal will have to be considered by union members taking into account all the other aspects of the offer. The last I heard from CMs who talk to union reps is that Disney was tying wage increases to sweeping rollbacks of workers rights and benefits.

Pay attention to what this actually is--an attempt by Disney to shape the narrative, preempt Bernie Sanders appearance tomorrow, and stake a position based on one detail of the negotiations. My rebel spies tell me there is a long way to go before there is a contract to submit to union members for ratification. This is just one step in the process.

Nice play on Disney's part, but completely transparent.

 

[TP2000]

The devil is in the details. This proposal will have to be considered by union members taking into account all the other aspects of the offer. The last I heard from CMs who talk to union reps is that Disney was tying wage increases to sweeping rollbacks of workers rights and benefits.

Pay attention to what this actually is--an attempt by Disney to shape the narrative, preempt Bernie Sanders appearance tomorrow, and stake a position based on one detail of the negotiations. My rebel spies tell me there is a long way to go before there is a contract to submit to union members for ratification. This is just one step in the process.

Nice play on Disney's part, but completely transparent.

Okay, but what exactly does “workers rights and benefits”mean in 2018 in a famously employee-friendly state like California with the most liberal labor laws in the country? Everything from weekly overtime definitions to paid second lunches and paid shuttle bus commutes have already been legislated by Sacramento. What exactly are the Disneyland unions representing unskilled labor talking about when they say stuff like “worker rights”?

I could easily and unquestionably understand the concept of “worker rights” if this was Michigan assembly lines circa 1925 or West Virginia coal mines circa 1935, or even New York factory seamstresses circa 1960. But Disneyland ride operators and burger flippers in 2018? What rights have they not already gained via Sacramento or Washington DC in the last 50 years that they need a union to provide in this most progressive of progressive states?

I’m honestly curious what Disneyland unions are using as examples of “worker rights” beyond the proposed $13.50 starting wage that only they are capable of fighting for in 2018. Any examples?

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Sen. Bernie Sanders speaks at rally to call for higher wages for Disneyland Resort workers

Ouch.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Okay, but what exactly does “workers rights and benefits”mean in 2018 in a famously employee-friendly state like California with the most liberal labor laws in the country? Everything from weekly overtime definitions to paid second lunches and paid shuttle bus commutes have already been legislated by Sacramento. What exactly are the Disneyland unions representing unskilled labor talking about when they say stuff like “worker rights”?

I could easily and unquestionably understand the concept of “worker rights” if this was Michigan assembly lines circa 1925 or West Virginia coal mines circa 1935, or even New York factory seamstresses circa 1960. But Disneyland ride operators and burger flippers in 2018? What rights have they not already gained via Sacramento or Washington DC in the last 50 years that they need a union to provide in this most progressive of progressive states?

I’m honestly curious what Disneyland unions are using as examples of “worker rights” beyond the proposed $13.50 starting wage that only they are capable of fighting for in 2018. Any examples?

If I thought you were interested in engaging in a serious discussion, I might try to clarify. But I find your hyperbole and combativeness very unappealing. I don't even want to try and correct all your false assumptions.

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[TP2000]

If I thought you were interested in engaging in a serious discussion, I might try to clarify. But I find your hyperbole and combativeness very unappealing. I don't even want to try and correct all your false assumptions.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Okay. I was hoping you could fill us in on what “rights” Disneyland CM’s currently lack that the state and federal government doesn’t already mandate. Just a few examples exclusive to Disneyland circa 2018 would have been nice to know. But if you want to keep those things a secret, so be it.

To the group at large...

I do miss the old Al Lutz columns where he used to rail against the crummy food service and rotten break rooms for CM’s. That was something I think we could all agree need attention. But Al Lutz is gone, and as much fun as it was to cluck my tongue while reading his juicy columns, I’m not sure greasy cafeterias and run down break rooms qualify as worker rights.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Okay. I was hoping you could fill us in on what “rights” Disneyland CM’s currently lack that the state and federal government doesn’t already mandate. Just a few examples exclusive to Disneyland circa 2018 would have been nice to know. But if you want to keep those things a secret, so be it.

Wasn't directed at me, but I'll at least respond. I am not aware of Disney breaking any labor laws and I'm sure we would have heard about it if they were. Rights and benefits are going to mean different things to different people but a couple of points:

1. Labor laws are heavily slanted towards business. For example many state laws regarding the regulation of Uber drivers are carbon copies of Uber's own stance on the subject. Why? Well because the laws were written by Uber lobbyists. Compared to the rest of the industrialized world American labor laws are down right laughable. The U.S. is the only major country that does not require companies to give it's employees paid time off. While the majority of full time workers will get 2 weeks, there are still rampant reports of workers being pressured to not use it. Meanwhile 4-6 weeks is commonplace or even mandated in many parts of the world. The U.S. is also the only major country without mandatory paid paternal leave for new parents. Healthcare? Please, the U.S. is a joke on that front.

So while Disney maybe following the labor laws, the point many are trying to make is that the laws themselves are absolutely in their favor and Disney is doing the bare minimum required of them. The current administration is only trying to make things worse on workers.

2. I have seen you write on several occasions in describing Disney's CM's in less than flattery terms (I'm putting it in the nicest terminology I can.) Very dismissing in calling them just burgers flippers or ride operators. I know it is industry jargon to call them unskilled but those jobs are anything but. In my career I worked harder and required more skills to works jobs similar to those than I ever did in the corporate world where the primary skill is navigating interoffice politics. The so called skill was a college education even if you never studied a day in your life the field you were entering. Skilled jobs often have someone who never had any prior knowledge in that field prior to getting the job. I have been in that spot more than once.

A friend of mine had a rough life going up. Pretty much anyone in her neighborhood is now either in jail or dead. She made a couple mistakes herself. She is the hardest worker I have ever met and has more "skills" and can do more than anyone I have ever met. She barely makes over minimum wage and is continually passed over for promotions left and right. She is more qualified than her bosses and often does their jobs for them. She can't get ahead because she doesn't have a college degree and made a couple of mistakes as a teenager. She has switched jobs multiple times to try and find a place to give her a chance. To no avail. This is the story of many people that end working at Disney or places like it. Just getting another job is often futile. You think they haven't thought of it? Dismissing them for being "unskilled workers" is ignorant. Telling them to get another job or move is ignorant. Ivory Towers and all that

3. The strategy of going after Disney or any other corporation is not about imploring Disney to "do the right thing." It's about exposing the discrepancy to the public so policy can change. Bernie Sanders mentioning Disney's $9 billion in profits while many employees are homeless or barely holding on is not about Disney suddenly getting a heart. It is about bringing the issue to light so regulations can change. According to a recent UN report "About 40 million live in poverty, 18.5 million in extreme poverty, and 5.3 million live in Third World conditions of absolute poverty. It has the highest youth poverty rate in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), and the highest infant mortality rates among comparable OECD States. Its citizens live shorter and sicker lives compared to those living in all other rich democracies." http://undocs.org/A/HRC/38/33/ADD.1

4. Paying Disney CM's as well as all those who work full time customer service so called unskilled workers a livable wage with benefits gives them an opportunity to move out of poverty. It also allows those who love interacting with people the chance to stay in this line of work. There is no hate towards Bob Iger and he should get everything he can, but you have to wonder if any one person is ever worth a compensation package of up to $400 million. Meanwhile the front line CM who has direct contact with customer's are getting at or barely above minimum wage. This is not hating on Disney but to quote the UN report again "For almost five decades the overall policy response has been neglectful at best, but the policies pursued over the past year seem deliberately designed to remove basic protections from the poorest, punish those who are not in employment and make even basic health care into a privilege to be earned rather than a right of citizenship. " Disney is simply one example of many that point to the bigger problem. If you are poor in this country the government will do everything possible to keep you that way. That way of thinking needs to change.

 

[flynnibus]

Okay. I was hoping you could fill us in on what “rights” Disneyland CM’s currently lack that the state and federal government doesn’t already mandate. Just a few examples exclusive to Disneyland circa 2018 would have been nice to know. But if you want to keep those things a secret, so be it.

Same as most union basics I assume...

Representation
Protection from arbitrary termination
Placement help/relocation requirements if roles change
Policies around shifts
Seniority perks
Pay scales
Policies for uniforms, etc

To your post, can you say the employees don’t get anything beyond the legal minimum. And it’s clear that is not the case.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

We should have elected Bernie Sanders.

 

[TP2000]

2. I have seen you write on several occasions in describing Disney's CM's in less than flattery terms (I'm putting it in the nicest terminology I can.) Very dismissing in calling them just burgers flippers or ride operators. I know it is industry jargon to call them unskilled but those jobs are anything but.

Oh for gosh sakes, they aren't astro-physicists or heart surgeons. Heck, they also aren't diesel mechanics or commercial electricians or software engineers. (Although Disneyland probably employs those skilled tradesmen, mysteriously whose unions are not getting involved with this and/or blatantly and publicly distancing themselves from the unions representing unskilled labor)

The entry-level CM's we are talking about in this thread are ride operators and burger flippers. They are also balloon vendors and shop cashiers and bellhops and ticket takers and ushers and janitors and ice cream scoopers. They're mostly wonderful people, lots of cute kids in high school and college, but they aren't in skilled blue collar jobs designing the latest battery pack for Tesla or wiring the ethernet lines in a new 787 for Boeing.

If you think it's derisive to call a bellhop a bellhop for some reason, then call them a Luggage Transportation Coordinator if you'd like. But I'll still call a bellhop a bellhop, and so long as he's polite and helps with the bags he'll get a heartfelt thank you and a nice tip from me. Also a smile, cause I'm kind.

If you want to engage in a serious discussion, maybe stop referring to cooks derisively as "burger flippers."

Okay, seriously you guys, you are just making me laugh here.

I'll have you know in the 1960's I was a burger flipper during my junior and senior years of high school, for a burger chain in Seattle called Burgermaster. They still exist, although a few of them closed down since their 1960's prime. I worked the kitchen. I flipped burgers (although there was also a patty melt and a crab melt on the menu), and we were called burger flippers. I was darn proud of that job then, and I'm darn proud of it now.

I imagine there are 18 year old burger flippers working this summer at Tomorrowland Terrace who are proud of their first job and the pay they are earning, as they should be. Does that pride mean they are an astronaut instead of a burger flipper? No, they are still a burger flipper at Tomorrowland Terrace. If you want to call them a line cook, be my guest.

The CM's operating the rides are ride operators. The CM's flipping burgers are burger flippers. The CM's working the cash register are cashiers. The CM's taking tickets are ticket takers. The CM's sweeping up popcorn are sweepers. You could probably come up with a bunch of cheesy 21st century HR approved titles for those things to try and make it sound fancy. But a 21st century title doesn't magically change their work or increase their pay.

And during the lunch rush at Tomorrowland Terrace, once the patty turns brown, a CM still needs to flip the burger over.

 

[21stamps]

Rights and benefits are going to mean different things to different people but a couple of points:

Rights and Benefits shouldn’t mean different things to different people within an organization.
It’s black and white, there’s no “my truth” “your truth”.. it just Is, or Isn’t.

I appreciate your empathy for unskilled labor and other similar jobs, but @TP2000 is correct by calling a ride operator a Ride Operator, and it shouldn’t be offensive to say it. People can work very hard, and I’m sure most of them do.. but saying they don’t have the same skills as an electrician or mechanic is not demeaning their work ethic or putting them down, it’s just facts.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Why are they fighting for higher wages at the same time they want the CM's to pay more at the pump?

Because there won't be adequate roads and mass transit for them use if the State doesn't raise money to fix its crumbling infrastructure that's why.

California's gas tax increase has fast-tracked road repair projects as supporters hope to stave off a repeal

 

[TROR]

We should have elected Bernie Sanders.

I, too, hate freedom and stable economies

 

[Travel Junkie]

Oh for gosh sakes, they aren't astro-physicists or heart surgeons. Heck, they also aren't diesel mechanics or commercial electricians or software engineers.

Way to take it to the most extreme example. I never said they were scientists or surgeons and you never made that comparison until now. It takes a lot more skill than you give them credit for. That is the point. You and others have given the impression over several pages that they are lazy and asking for a handout. They are not asking for doctor money. They are asking for enough money to not starve from a company that made $3 billion last quarter.

Watch how many visitors treat CM's and it is obvious they don't have any respect for them. I wonder why they do that. Perhaps is has something to do with how those guests view their job in the first place.

Rights and Benefits shouldn’t mean different things to different people within an organization.
It’s black and white, there’s no “my truth” “your truth”.. it just Is, or Isn’t.

Is healthcare a worker right? Is paid paternal leave a worker right? Is paid time off a worker right? "My truth" and "your truth" are likely very different.

 

[21stamps]

Is healthcare a worker right? Is paid paternal leave a worker right? Is paid time off a worker right? "My truth" and "your truth" are likely very different.

I would think there would be set “Rights” that the Unions are representing, not just “join our union, pay our dues, and we’ll represent any topic you wish.”

 

[FerretAfros]

And during the lunch rush at Tomorrowland Terrace, once the patty turns brown, a CM still needs to flip the burger over.

Sounds like it's time for them to adopt White Castle's self-steaming no-flipping-required sliders!

Come to think of it, I'm actually kind of surprised that Disney doesn't use more innovative food preparation techniques, especially in the various Tomorrowlands, where food is typically abysmal and it could be worked into the theme. Disney's quick-service locations are shockingly slow and deal with massive volume, so why not give it a chance? It's not like the burgers could be made any worse as a result...