LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

[Old Mouseketeer]

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/...ad-of-proposed-ballot-measure-to-raise-wages/

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Sen. Bernie Sanders, a vocal critic of the Walt Disney Co. since his 2016 presidential campaign, is coming to Anaheim to meet with workers from businesses in and around the Disneyland Resort.


Sanders will be in town Saturday, June 2, for a roundtable-type event where he’ll talk with a selection of people from a variety of industries that serve the theme park, nearby hotels and other related businesses, said Andrew Cohen, a spokesman for Unite Here Local 11. The event at River Church is open to the public.


Unite Here is one of 11 unions in a coalition that is backing an initiative that would raise wages for workers at hospitality businesses – including Disney – that have received subsidies from Anaheim. The ballot measure seeks to raise wages at affected businesses to at least $15 an hour in 2019 and to $18 an hour by 2022.<<

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A collection of business and community groups including Visit Anaheim, the California Restaurant Association and the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce have come out against the ballot proposal, calling it a “job killer” they say would cause developers to flee and the city to lose jobs and revenue.


“If this measure qualifies for the ballot, it will be an important issue that will give Anaheim residents a lot to think about, given its impact on jobs and investment in our community,” Anaheim chamber CEO Todd Ament said Friday.

“It’s hard to see how a former presidential candidate and U.S. senator from Vermont contributes to that process, rather than just grandstanding on a local issue for his own purposes,” Ament said<<

I was not a Bernie supporter for President. But I think his "contribution" is measured by whether he illuminates the facts and supports economic justice for workers. I'll say it again: make Disney and other corporations pay their fair share and end corporate welfare.

 

[TP2000]

I was not a Bernie supporter for President. But I think his "contribution" is measured by whether he illuminates the facts and supports economic justice for workers. I'll say it again: make Disney and other corporations pay their fair share and end corporate welfare.

I'm also no Bernie fan, as a history buff I don't think Socialism works well at all long-term.

That said, what is the "fair share" that you feel Disneyland should pay to Anaheim's tax base? The Resort District property currently pays 45% of the Anaheim General Fund taxes that run the city services. If paying 45% of the taxes each year the city needs is not the "fair share", then could you please provide us what that figure is? Is it 65% of the General Fund taxes? 75%? 90%? 99%?

A reminder for those not in Orange County, here is the map of the city of Anaheim. The Resort District, a world famous economic powerhouse that would be the envy of any city in America, that also pays 45% of the city's General Fund is the green/red splotch at lower middle. The Resort District encompasses the Disneyland Resort property, the adjacent Anaheim Convention Center, and the surrounding hotels/restaurants. The city of Anaheim is roughly 51 square miles and has a current population of 350,000 people.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think Socialism works well at all long-term.

You're right true pure Socialism doesn't work well long term. However Socialism at its core is not a bad thing, and shouldn't be looked at as a bad word. A Democratic Socialism system does work. And has worked well for many countries for generations. It was where the US was heading until the 80s and 90s when deregulation took hold of both the political parties. It started a lot of the issues that has caused the shrinking of the middle class.

 

[Travel Junkie]

That said, what is the "fair share" that you feel Disneyland should pay to Anaheim's tax base? The Resort District property currently pays 45% of the Anaheim General Fund taxes that run the city services. If paying 45% of the taxes each year the city needs is not the "fair share", then could you please provide us what that figure is? Is it 65% of the General Fund taxes? 75%? 90%? 99%?

The tax fund percentage speaks more to Anaheim's inability to generate tax revenue outside of Disneyland. They've been pretty inept in fact. Anaheim is not a 1 industry town and wouldn't become a ghost town if the plant closed per se, but Anaheim needs to diversify.

The fair share argument is largely not talking about the tax fund contribution anyway. We are going back to paying their employees a wage that they can support themselves with. When they don't (and has been talked about endlessly they don't) it leads to increased pressure on social services as many Disneyland employees need economic assistance. Tax payers help big business by picking up the slack when they don't pay livable wages. Disney contributes a lot to Anaheim and California's economy but puts strain on it as well. And that doesn't even mention the corporate welfare and loops holes company's exploit.

Reminder, Disney's net income (profit) was $4.4 Billion last QUARTER! Paying employees an extra dollar or two an hour would do wonders for the employee and Disney would barely notice.

Not going to touch on the Socialism topic other than say that the countries that are on the top 10 of highest standard of living and happiness index are almost all Socialist or borderline Socialist. It's proven to work for plenty. Almost, every time I come back to the U.S from traveling overseas I seem to notice how depressed and stressed out American's are compared to where I was.

 

[flynnibus]

The tax fund percentage speaks more to Anaheim's inability to generate tax revenue outside of Disneyland. They've been pretty inept in fact. Anaheim is not a 1 industry town and wouldn't become a ghost town if the plant closed per se, but Anaheim needs to diversify.

The fair share argument is largely not talking about the tax fund contribution anyway. We are going back to paying their employees a wage that they can support themselves with. When they don't (and has been talked about endlessly they don't) it leads to increased pressure on social services as many Disneyland employees need economic assistance. Tax payers help big business by picking up the slack when they don't pay livable wages. Disney contributes a lot to Anaheim and California's economy but puts strain on it as well. And that doesn't even mention the corporate welfare and loops holes company's exploit.

Reminder, Disney's net income (profit) was $4.4 Billion last QUARTER! Paying employees an extra dollar or two an hour would do wonders for the employee and Disney would barely notice.

Not going to touch on the Socialism topic other than say that the countries that are on the top 10 of highest standard of living and happiness index are almost all Socialist or borderline Socialist. It's proven to work for plenty. Almost, every time I come back to the U.S from traveling overseas I seem to notice how depressed and stressed out American's are compared to where I was.

Do you even know how many of Disney’s employees live in Anaheim?

And you compared twdc ‘s numbers... not disneyland’s Numbers

And when you look at those socialist countries and standard of living... look at their ability to be self sufficient or not... and their trade deficits.

And as for Anaheim’s ability to generate revenue... what would you expect them to do? Raze housing to bring in industry? People forget that Anaheim isn’t some metro area pulling in from all the surrounding lesser areas. It’s a municipality in a sprawling metropolis surrounded by like entities in almost every direction.

 

[TP2000]

The fair share argument is largely not talking about the tax fund contribution anyway.

Not according to Mayor Tait and the new leftist city councilman. They rail against Disneyland's tax payments to the city as not being enough, and they are mad that the ticket tax moratorium passed so they can't tax that income stream to pad their General Fund further. The tax break for luxury hotels also seems to irk them, although that's how that stuff works in almost every city in America. Tax breaks are exactly how Garden Grove stole a dozen big corporate hotels and some chain restaurants to their stretch of Harbor Blvd. over the last 15 years; they offered big tax breaks if hotels built there instead of across the Anaheim city line two blocks north. Anaheim sat on its hands and watched it happen until recently.

We are going back to paying their employees a wage that they can support themselves with. When they don't (and has been talked about endlessly they don't) it leads to increased pressure on social services as many Disneyland employees need economic assistance. Tax payers help big business by picking up the slack when they don't pay livable wages. Disney contributes a lot to Anaheim and California's economy but puts strain on it as well. And that doesn't even mention the corporate welfare and loops holes company's exploit.

Okay, but that's not what Anaheim's politicians are talking about. Anaheim does not provide food stamps or Section 8 or Medicare or free school lunches to its poor citizens, those are all welfare benefits doled out by the Federal Government, with some being provided by California's state government. Anaheim's tax base supports the services Anaheim directly provides to its residents; parks, libraries, schools, police, fire, non-state roads, etc.

You could make a reasonable argument that poor Disneyland employees are taxing the charities that call Anaheim home; churches, food banks, Boys & Girls Clubs, etc., but for the most part Anaheim's city government does not fund those churches and social groups who offer charity services within city limits.

It's really all about getting more money into Anaheim's General Fund from local taxes, which is all Mayor Tait and a few city councilmen are currently concerned about. The issue of state and federal minimum wage laws are another thing, although the local push to mandate higher minimum wages in the Anaheim Resort District has now made that a local issue.

 

[TP2000]

And again I ask, what exactly is that "fair share" for taxes paid by Disney to Anaheim's General Fund and wages paid to hourly Cast Members?

No one can ever really say what that dollar figure is, they just keep repeating the vague phrases "Fair Share" or "Living Wage". But what's the exact dollar figure there???

Is $18 an hour to start a fair share? If that's so and a 17 year old burger flipper at Tomorrowland Terrace and a 37 year old bellhop at the Grand Californian deserves $18 an hour to start for those unskilled entry-level jobs, then what does the skilled electrician currently making $21 and hour deserve? Or a skilled machinist currently making $20 an hour checking the brakes on Space Mountain every night deserve? No one ever seems to be able to list what the new pay scales would be across the Resort once a 17 year old burger flipper is starting at $18 per hour.

And why $18? The latest stats are that you need to be earning $168,000 per year to afford the median house in Orange County. That's actually about $50 an hour needed to purchase a home with a 30 year mortgage. Or $30 an hour to afford a cheap, old apartment and support a family of four. So what does $18 an hour do for that 37 year old bellhop living with his parents who complained about his pay rate to the Anaheim City Council? He still can't afford his own apartment, let alone a house. And he still has no marketable skills, and is performing an unskilled task that will easily be replaced by a robot sometime in the next decade.

But seriously, I'm forever fascinated why no one can ever tell us what the "living wage" hourly pay scale is for Disneyland CM's, or what the "fair share" of taxes paid to Anaheim's General Fund is if 45% is not a fair share.

There's always lots of criticism and words claiming Disneyland doesn't pay a fair share, but then no one, and I mean NO ONE, not even Bernie Sanders, can ever tell us exactly what that fair share is. It just seems like such a vapid, empty ramble of words and catchphrases with no real facts behind it. And that makes me very, very suspicious of exactly what politicians like Ada Briceno and Bernie Sanders are after exactly.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I do not understand why some people will argue so vigorously against people making decent wages while offering zero solutions to fix the problem. SMH.

 

[Phroobar]

What if Disney required their low wage cast members to take classes at the local community college in order to get a better career? Disney could pay for their schooling while they work? Corporations would then fast track them in to higher paid corporate jobs?

 

[Disney Irish]

I do not understand why some people will argue so vigorously against people making decent wages while offering zero solutions to fix the problem. SMH.

Some of us have, you just seem to reject them outright if they don't match your ideals.

So I put the question back on you. What are your solutions to fixing the problem besides just higher wages?

 

[21stamps]

And again I ask, what exactly is that "fair share" for taxes paid by Disney to Anaheim's General Fund and wages paid to hourly Cast Members?

No one can ever really say what that dollar figure is, they just keep repeating the vague phrases "Fair Share" or "Living Wage". But what's the exact dollar figure there???

Is $18 an hour to start a fair share? If that's so and a 17 year old burger flipper at Tomorrowland Terrace and a 37 year old bellhop at the Grand Californian deserves $18 an hour to start for those unskilled entry-level jobs, then what does the skilled electrician currently making $21 and hour deserve? Or a skilled machinist currently making $20 an hour checking the brakes on Space Mountain every night deserve? No one ever seems to be able to list what the new pay scales would be across the Resort once a 17 year old burger flipper is starting at $18 per hour.

And why $18? The latest stats are that you need to be earning $168,000 per year to afford the median house in Orange County. That's actually about $50 an hour needed to purchase a home with a 30 year mortgage. Or $30 an hour to afford a cheap, old apartment and support a family of four. So what does $18 an hour do for that 37 year old bellhop living with his parents who complained about his pay rate to the Anaheim City Council? He still can't afford his own apartment, let alone a house. And he still has no marketable skills, and is performing an unskilled task that will easily be replaced by a robot sometime in the next decade.

But seriously, I'm forever fascinated why no one can ever tell us what the "living wage" hourly pay scale is for Disneyland CM's, or what the "fair share" of taxes paid to Anaheim's General Fund is if 45% is not a fair share.

There's always lots of criticism and words claiming Disneyland doesn't pay a fair share, but then no one, and I mean NO ONE, not even Bernie Sanders, can ever tell us exactly what that fair share is. It just seems like such a vapid, empty ramble of words and catchphrases with no real facts behind it. And that makes me very, very suspicious of exactly what politicians like Ada Briceno and Bernie Sanders are after exactly.

It’s impossible to get an answer to these questions. I’ve tried, several times.
If something is based on ideals and emotion but can’t be translated into a plan.. then what are you left with?

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s impossible to get an answer to these questions. I’ve tried, several times.
If something is based on ideals and emotion but can’t be translated into a plan.. then what are you left with?

Fighting and resentment with no solutions and no actions. Basically our current political environment.

 

[21stamps]

Fighting and resentment with no solutions and no actions. Basically our current political environment.

Exactly.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

...you just seem to reject them outright if they don't match your ideals.

And yet you are here doing the exact same thing with your arguments.

So I put the question back on you. What are your solutions to fixing the problem besides just higher wages?

For the umpteenth time the issue I have is that Disney deliberately stagnated wages against the rising cost of living in the region. At minimum bringing those wages up to where they were, adjusted for inflation, IS my solution.

 

[21stamps]

And yet you are here doing the exact same thing with your arguments.



For the umpteenth time the issue I have is that Disney deliberately stagnated wages against the rising cost of living in the region. At minimum bringing those wages up to where they were, adjusted for inflation, IS my solution.

To be able to afford what though?

This is what I always ask-
Enough for a smartphone?
And iPad?
And laptop?
And unlimited data?
Any other of the “luxuries” that have somehow morphed into “essentials”?

Health insurance which has risen tremendously?

What about- A car?
Car insurance?
Fuel for that car?

What type of housing?
- house?
-apartment?
-shared apartment?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Many Disney employees have it bad, but a friend just sent me this, and I thought it was interesting:

It's a program that shows the reader where they fall in the "world wealth" percentage compared to the rest of the world.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/?utm_...il&utm_term=0_df4a07f94a-7ec0ea52c0-176764213

 

[21stamps]

I’ve said this story in other threads, but it’s appropriate here too,

I took a gap year after college to travel. At one point my friends and I decided to go to Key West, Florida for a dive trip and to celebrate NYE Y2K.
I fell in love with that rock. Decided to move there. My college degree would not allow me to find a job where I would be able to afford to live where I wanted and do what I wanted to do in KW.. So, as I was looking in the newspaper (early 2001), I saw an ad for a timeshare salesperson.
I applied, and when I attended my interview I was asked if I had experience and why I thought I would be successful-
I replied “I know people, I’ve traveled a lot. Most importantly, my rent is $1980 per month, and I don’t want to move. I don’t have experience, but if you train me, I will be your top performer.”

They hired me, and I did exactly what I said. Therefore, I got to keep my overpriced studio apartment on Duval St.

Had I taken an hourly or even salary wage job at that time- I would have been forced to live elsewhere, and with multiple roommates. Just like many other people who were my age at that time.

 

[Phroobar]

Many Disney employees have it bad, but a friend just sent me this, and I thought it was interesting:

It's a program that shows the reader where they fall in the "world wealth" percentage compared to the rest of the world.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/?utm_...il&utm_term=0_df4a07f94a-7ec0ea52c0-176764213

Cool little calculator! I'm in the top 0.06% of the World! Bow before me peons!

 

[flynnibus]

For the umpteenth time the issue I have is that Disney deliberately stagnated wages against the rising cost of living in the region. At minimum bringing those wages up to where they were, adjusted for inflation, IS my solution.

Are you equally upset at every other large employer who isn't raising wages across the board every year to adjust for COL? Do you even understand how injecting more money into a inflation system just INCREASES inflation further?

You can't solve rising costs by inserting more money.

 

[Disney Irish]

And yet you are here doing the exact same thing with your arguments.

Nope, the difference is I've agreed wages need to go up. But what I've suggested is to look beyond JUST the wages. Wage stagnation ISN'T just about wages. And that is one thing I think you fail to realize. While your solution looks to blame and ONLY increase wages, which then does nothing to solve the actual underlying issues causing the wage stagnation. So while I've agreed that wages need to increase, you've rejected any other suggestion. Please note that its not a one prong solution. As someone here stated, you can't lift a entire table by just lifting a single leg.

For the umpteenth time the issue I have is that Disney deliberately stagnated wages against the rising cost of living in the region. At minimum bringing those wages up to where they were, adjusted for inflation, IS my solution.

Ok, so you raise wages. Then inflationary forces take over making the dollar worth less. So now that raise in wages mean nothing. So now what? Another raise? Its a never ending cycle that never hopes to solve the problem.

So again I ask, BESIDES increasing wages what other solutions do you have for the wage stagnation issue that plagues our country?