LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

[TP2000]

I can see Disney getting rid of a lot of CM ride operators if they could figure out how to automate it. They are already trying to do that with cashiers. The problem is the guests are stupid and a computer AI really couldn't keep guests from loading/unloading badly. Disney needs some kind of West World robot to direct guests.

There are some things you can't currently outsource to AI, but there are a lot of tasks at Disneyland you could easily outsource to AI and robotics and Apps. If Disneyland pay scales really did bump up to $18 to $25 per hour for unskilled entry-level tasks like ride operators, bellhops, maids, burger flippers, cashiers, ticket takers, etc. they could dramatically rework how the whole resort operates.

Disneyland's Mobile Order App turns on this month and that just cut the need for a whole lot of cashiers at the fast food places. You could do the same thing at table service restaurants with iPad screens at the tables, so you just need a smaller crew of runners instead of a large crew of waitresses.

The fast food industry is now rushing towards robotic kitchen and line prep machines. Disneyland will have the resources to use this technology easily.

What about that grumpy 37 year old bellhop who complained at the City Council meeting? A year from now he can be replaced with a autonomous droid who ferries luggage to/from hotel rooms. The room service waiter can also be replaced by the same type of robot. Those robots won't pay dues money to Ada Briceno either, nor will they show up at a City Council meeting with a union approved script.

Boston Dynamics is working on robots that can clean a hotel room and change bedsheets automatically, putting out of work all those housekeepers who obeyed their union boss Ada Briceno when she got them to beat pots and pans on Disneyland Drive at the crack of dawn to purposely upset paying hotel guests and make life difficult for Disneyland management.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disneyland's Mobile Order App turns on this month and that just cut the need for a whole lot of cashiers at the fast food places. You could do the same thing at table service restaurants with iPad screens at the tables, so you just need a smaller crew of runners instead of a large crew of waitresses.

The fast food industry is now rushing towards robotic kitchen and line prep machines. Disneyland will have the resources to use this technology easily.

It was just released today!

 

[TP2000]

It was just released today!

There you go, they are off and running!

 

[Disney Irish]

Automation, one of the unintended consequences of just raising wages.

Cal/OHSA will prevent all ride operators job from being lost to automation, due to safety, so some will be kept. But bet your bottom dollar that Disney is already looking at ways to streamline their operations with automation.

 

[TP2000]

Automation, one of the unintended consequences of just raising wages.

Cal/OHSA will prevent all ride operators job from being lost to automation, due to safety, so some will be kept. But bet your bottom dollar that Disney is already looking at ways to streamline their operations with automation.

Agreed. Most theme parks don't bother with seat assigners in the loading area, which Disney still uses. But those jobs could go away easily. The greeter CM's out front could also go away. And yes, efficient operation will suffer, but it will pencil out for Burbank if they were suddenly forced to pay $20 an hour to ride operators.

Labor intensive rides like Storybook Land, Canoes and Jungle Cruise would either be automated a la' Disneyland Paris (StorybookLand), be reworked for driverless automation (Jungle Cruise), or just close permanently (Canoes).

 

[21stamps]

According to David Koenig's book The People v Disneyland, seasonal cast members made a little more than minimum wage at $3.10. However permanent part-time cast members made from $7-$10. I assume those people were attraction managers and had years of seniority.

https://www.ocweekly.com/re-living-...cast-member-strike-of-september-1984-6461614/

Wow, interesting!

I can’t find it now, but I was doing a search earlier where someone stated they made @ $7 per hour in the late 90s as an attraction operator.. I wish I could find it again!!
I’m going to page @ParentsOf4 , as he was the thread creator. I don’t know why I can’t find it now.

$10 seems outlandish for the early 80s. Not saying that it didn’t happen, but it’s sounds a bit odd.

 

[Phroobar]

Agreed. Most theme parks don't bother with seat assigners in the loading area, which Disney still uses. But those jobs could go away easily. The greeter CM's out front could also go away. And yes, efficient operation will suffer, but it will pencil out for Burbank if they were suddenly forced to pay $20 an hour to ride operators.

Labor intensive rides like Storybook Land, Canoes and Jungle Cruise would either be automated a la' Disneyland Paris (StorybookLand), be reworked for driverless automation (Jungle Cruise), or just close permanently (Canoes).

I can totally see that happening. Instead of a crew of 15 cast members running a ride, they could whittle it down to 5. The only cast members that will be left will be face characters and churro cart operators.

 

[Disney Irish]

I can totally see that happening. Instead of a crew of 15 cast members running a ride, they could whittle it down to 5. The only cast members that will be left will be face characters and churro cart operators.

Don't forget the Popcorn Cart Operators to hand out the AP Popcorn Buckets.

 

[flynnibus]

Give people an extra $2/hour in the short term, while you develop and implement longer-term solutions?

Because smart business doesn't throw money away. Do it for a purpose.. not some appeasement that really doesn't change much.

How about instead of raises, people got better policies around time off the clock? Or more consistent hours? Or better scheduling? All things that would improve moral and the work experience in direct ways... without just blindly throwing money at the problem and hoping someone is happy with the crumbs.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

It's not overly populated. It's just that resources(and individuals) are poorly distributed.

FTFY. Also, even if that's all the problem was (which it's not) that's not Disney's fault.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Are you equally upset at every other large employer who isn't raising wages across the board every year to adjust for COL? Do you even understand how injecting more money into a inflation system just INCREASES inflation further?

You can't solve rising costs by inserting more money.

WRONG!!! And let me tell you why:

Your oversimplified assumption only looks at one part of what is killing America's middle class. For thirty or forty years our government has enacted policies that steadily eroded the buying power of working people's wages while increasing the concentration of wealth for the top 1%. For the most part, the mega-rich didn't get richer because they worked harder or were more productive. It was because the system was rigged in their favor. There are a host of policies that have contributed to this result.

Our economy worked just fine when companies were paying higher wages. We know that companies like Disney can afford to pay workers a fairer wage. They just choose not to.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

This is what happens when you think policy making is about emotions... and why idiots can get elected these days. They just feed people's emotional desires and can completely ignore results or consequences. Tell them what they want to hear...

How about some real alternatives vs the emotional suger high of just raising wages??

How about zoning laws that steer in affordable housing requirements?
How about encouraging large scale businesses to address housing issues by organizing/funding housing subsidities and/or housing development for workers?
How about pushing for better HC coverage at more affordable rates?
How about more accessible professional development so you don't end up with the 37yr old valet?

How about Disney taking a wholistic approach to their most important aspect so they have the industry's best... instead of the naive thinking that if you just give someone more money all their problems go away.

Who says increasing wages alone is the solution? Disney paying a fairer wage is only the beginning. All of the things you have suggested should be on the table, along with many more.

 

[flynnibus]

Who says increasing wages alone is the solution?

Dr Hans for one...
The people behind this wage initiative...

The 'and we'll tackle those later' excuse doesn't work. You have to tackle things comprehensively... else it's lip-service to be deferred another day down the road.

 

[flynnibus]

WRONG!!! And let me tell you why:

Your oversimplified assumption only looks at one part of what is killing America's middle class

Wrong - I'm pointing out why wages alone isn't the answer. I'm not the one over-simplifying. The basics of inflation do not change with policy. When you flood the market with new spending power... prices will go up.

Our economy worked just fine when companies were paying higher wages. We know that companies like Disney can afford to pay workers a fairer wage. They just choose not to.

The 'dirty rich guys' hording all the money vs paying wages isn't what drove the cost of education through the roof... or the cost of healthcare... or the cost of housing... or general inflation. The tax policy on the higher bands has allowed them to get richer.. no doubt.. but that hasn't been what put the 98% under load with soaring daycare, health, services, and education expenses.

My mechanic isn't charging $120/hr now because of a robber baron in the back office. Nor is the plumber who doesn't even pass gas for less than $400/visit.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

I can totally see that happening. Instead of a crew of 15 cast members running a ride, they could whittle it down to 5. The only cast members that will be left will be face characters and churro cart operators.

It can't happen. There is a lot of "people-handling" involved in the largest attractions. A friend of mine who used to work attractions explained this once. Some major attractions can open with as few as five CMs (plus a lead and breakers). But as the crowds increase, more positions need to be filled including handlers for the wheelchair line, outside crowd control, and managing the extended queue. This can increase the staffing number to 12-15. IIRC Mansion can open with 7 required positions plus one lead and can go up to 16 plus two leads for HM Holiday (plus breakers).

Remember, if you take away the people loading the ride vehicles, capacity takes a nosedive. The way rides are run today is the result of 62 years experience. Park visitors are stupid and clueless. They check their ability to think and reason at the gate. Certain vehicles have to be balanced. Sometimes children have to be seated in specific places. For instance, there are rules about young children being within sight, hearing, or touching distance of a parent. Even on a Fantasyland dark ride young children cannot sit behind a parent.

There are a host of logistical and safety needs that must be fulfilled. In the old days, Dumbo and Rocket Jets could be operated with one CM. Now there has to be a second CM with an emergency stop button on the opposite side of the spinner. When I visited the parks with this friend, she had me stand with her and observe CMs running attractions and she explained all the things they were doing simultaneously. Doing the math in your head to balance and fill a Pirates boat was mind-boggling. I really don't know how they do it. And so many things had become more complex than I worked at the resort in college and just after (decades ago).

 

[Disney Irish]

It can't happen. There is a lot of "people-handling" involved in the largest attractions. A friend of mine who used to work attractions explained this once. Some major attractions can open with as few as five CMs (plus a lead and breakers). But as the crowds increase, more positions need to be filled including handlers for the wheelchair line, outside crowd control, and managing the extended queue. This can increase the staffing number to 12-15. IIRC Mansion can open with 7 required positions plus one lead and can go up to 16 plus two leads for HM Holiday (plus breakers).

Remember, if you take away the people loading the ride vehicles, capacity takes a nosedive. The way rides are run today is the result of 62 years experience. Park visitors are stupid and clueless. They check their ability to think and reason at the gate. Certain vehicles have to be balanced. Sometimes children have to be seated in specific places. For instance, there are rules about young children being within sight, hearing, or touching distance of a parent. Even on a Fantasyland dark ride young children cannot sit behind a parent.

There are a host of logistical and safety needs that must be fulfilled. In the old days, Dumbo and Rocket Jets could be operated with one CM. Now there has to be a second CM with an emergency stop button on the opposite side of the spinner. When I visited the parks with this friend, she had me stand with her and observe CMs running attractions and she explained all the things they were doing simultaneously. Doing the math in your head to balance and fill a Pirates boat was mind-boggling. I really don't know how they do it. And so many things had become more complex than I worked at the resort in college and just after (decades ago).

One thing though that automation does very well is tasks that are routine and repetitive. So just because today it takes x number of CM to perform a task, doesn't mean it couldn't be done more efficiently and safer with less CMs and automation tomorrow. All it takes is a company with the economic motivation to make it happen.

Don't believe me, just ask the auto industry. So many in the auto industry were displaced because of robotic automation. Cars can be made faster and safer with robotic workers then humans doing the same work. You have whole factories working 24x7 to pump out cars with just robotic workers, and minimal human supervision.

AI is also getting better, in 5 years you will be interacting with more AI than you realize. Companies like Google have perfected AI to the point where its almost impossible to tell between it and a real person on the phone, even today.

So don't be surprised when Disney starts introducing more and more automation/AI based offerings that don't require or replaces a CM. Food ordering via your phone is just the start.

 

[Darkbeer1]

OK, why do Disneyland Resort Employees stay at the Resort? Seems like they like the total package of wages, tips (many, but not all positions), benefits and perks. Many CM trade their passes/sign-ins in return for things like oil changes, babysitting, and many other things including cash from relatives.

In today's news....

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/...-bottom-unemployment-means-wages-in-the-rise/

>>
What happens when Southern California unemployment rates plunge to lows not seen in at least decades?


Bosses have to pay up to attract and retain talent.


My trusty spreadsheet looked around Southern California to see how pay — measured by average weekly wages in the private sector — has moved as the supply of jobless workers fell by 425,000 in the past five years in the four-county region.<<

>>
Orange County’s weekly wages have averaged $1,071 in the past year, the region’s highest. But that’s up only $13 a week or 1.2 percent in a year.


Since 2013, O.C. wages have grown at a 2.8 annualized pace as local bosses boosted staffs at a 2.3 percent yearly pace. Orange County’s unemployment rate was 2.6 percent in April, the lowest in 19 years.<<

If a CM wants to get a different job, seems like nothing is stopping them.

And it seems that enough people are applying for new jobs at the DLR.

Not sure why a initiative that will create a lot of problems to the city, and MANY Anaheim businesses other than Disney is needed.

 

[TP2000]

My mechanic isn't charging $120/hr now because of a robber baron in the back office. Nor is the plumber who doesn't even pass gas for less than $400/visit.

A licensed, insured and bonded mechanic and plumber, who know their livelihood depends on their Yelp review and their ability to pass annual state licensing tests and inspections, can charge high wages like that because they are skilled tradesmen, who graduated high school and then a licensed trade school, and follow the rules of state licensing and labor laws. And because they are skilled, licensed, bonded, and insured, they can not be easily replaced by a newly arrived illegal immigrant from Honduras with a 5th grade education and no English language skills.

But a hotel housekeeper can be replaced by a newly arrived illegal immigrant with a 5th grade education and no English skills. Which is why a housekeeper's wages have sunk lower over the last 30 years. Many other entry-level, unskilled positions like that (burger flippers, gardeners, cashiers, bellhops, etc.) have had their wages sink at the same time because they can be easily replaced by endless waves of unskilled immigrants always willing and able to work those entry-level jobs for a cheaper wage.

 

[21stamps]

A licensed, insured and bonded mechanic and plumber, who know their livelihood depends on their Yelp review and their ability to pass annual state licensing tests and inspections, can charge high wages like that because they are skilled tradesmen, who graduated high school and then a licensed trade school, and follow the rules of state licensing and labor laws. And because they are skilled, licensed, bonded, and insured, they can not be easily replaced by a newly arrived illegal immigrant from Honduras with a 5th grade education and no English language skills.

But a hotel housekeeper can be replaced by a newly arrived illegal immigrant with a 5th grade education and no English skills. Which is why a housekeeper's wages have sunk lower over the last 30 years. Many other entry-level, unskilled positions like that (burger flippers, gardeners, cashiers, bellhops, etc.) have had their wages sink at the same time because they can be easily replaced by endless waves of unskilled immigrants always willing and able to work those entry-level jobs for a cheaper wage.

I moved from South Florida to Ohio a few years ago...My lawn service from Spring-Fall is more expensive than my previous 12 months of continuous lawn service in FL.
I do not have a pool now where I live, but I’ve debated adding one, looked into all expenses.. Pool service is also almost double the price here as well.
Could it be certain areas in this country draw more workers who are willing to work for less, which drags down all wages in that industry down? I think so.

 

[Darkbeer1]

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2018/05/22/14621/

>>The Resort unions’ proposed $18 minimum wage initiative is vaguely worded, broader than proponents suggest, contains weak protections for small businesses, is constitutionally problematic and promises to be a “litigation bonanza” is approved, one of the state’s leading election attorneys testified to the Anaheim City Council last night.<<

>>“I would really think of this as a litigation bonanza or maybe an attorney full employment act – and that goes for all sides of the equation: employee attorneys who are incentivized to sue employers,” said Hertz, as well as business attorneys.


Hertz also noted possible constitutional issues arising from transgressing the Contracts Clauses of both the federal and state constitutions, since certain Resort hotel projects would be subject to the Resort union initiative specifically because of contractual agreements between them and the city: “Ballot measures are not allowed to interfere with existing contracts,” said Hertz.


In effect, the initiative’s wage hikes would be imposed unilaterally, ex post facto by the city upon unwilling contractual partners.<<

>>The Resort unions are businesses. They are in the membership business. They need dues revenue to stay in business. The $18 wage initiative’s vague language is a membership building tool. UNITE-HERE Local 11 has no compunctions about playing hardball with hospitality businesses that don’t want the inflated labors costs and headaches that go with having UNITE-HERE representation. Does anyone think they and other members of the Coalition of Resort Unions would shrink from using the threat of expensive litigation to cow recalcitrant business owners?<<