Kevin Yee- Airing of Grievances

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
You can't call what used to be known as general upkeep a building spree.

Repurposing of the 20K plot aside, there isn't a lot happening aside from pre preventive maintainence. New bathrooms to replace old bathrooms are hardly an earth shattering disclosure.

Mermaid is welcome, as will the new kiddy coaster be, but the MK deserves more.
 

articos

Well-Known Member
I was at IOA and UNI on Wednesday. It was MAGICal.

Not sure when I'll get around to the thread, but want to post thoughts when they're fresh.

I will say I don't know how UNI keeps the lights on serving a filet mignon at Mythos for $16.99 and adding soup for only $2.99 (and offering discounts to APers and AAA members on top) ... when Disney served me likely one of the worst turkey sandwiches of my life at Cosmic Ray's and easily the worst fries I have had in many moons all for the low, low price of $9.59.
Uni has Steve Jayson, who is very talented in picking good people who care about the food served on the property, and then he actually walks around to check quality every so often. Universal is also good at making sure the kitchens are properly planned, and if not, they fix quickly. But mostly they can get away with buying a lot of mid-upper level filets and then serving them spot on, subsidized by the tons of pizza and chicken they serve to the masses. Universal's very proud of Mythos and that culture hasn't yet diminished, so the quality stays. Kind of like how Disney used to think of CA Grill and is now talking up BOG, but they aren't executing as well as they could. Disney's culinary division, of which the fine dining really looks down on the parks - it's like they're different companies - really needs a SQS group that actually goes out and samples, which they really don't any more. Disney now relies almost exclusively on surveys, which is never a good idea.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Uni has Steve Jayson, who is very talented in picking good people who care about the food served on the property, and then he actually walks around to check quality every so often. Universal is also good at making sure the kitchens are properly planned, and if not, they fix quickly. But mostly they can get away with buying a lot of mid-upper level filets and then serving them spot on, subsidized by the tons of pizza and chicken they serve to the masses. Universal's very proud of Mythos and that culture hasn't yet diminished, so the quality stays

Too bad mythos is like an island in a sea of mediocrity tho. I like Mels for what it is.. but honestly food in the park is nothing to pound their chest over at UNI IMO. I found Mythos nice for what it is in a theme park, but average compared to stand-alones.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Please consider that during WDW's "Golden Era", taking into account new theme parks, WDW averaged more than one new attraction per year. For "typical" WDW vacationers, who might separate WDW trips by a few years, they could expect noticeable additions between trips. In WDW's "Golden Era", WDW grew.

Today, we don't get additions, we get replacements:

- 2003 Mission: Space replaces Horizons
- 2004 Stiches Great Escape replaces Alien Encounter
- 2005 Soarin' replaces Food Rocks
- 2006 Finding Nemo replaces Tarzan Rocks
- 2006 Expedition Everest is added
- 2007 Nemo & Friends replaces the Living Seas
- 2007 Monsters Inc Laugh Floor replaces The Timekeeper
- 2007 Wonders of Life pavilion closes
- 2008 Toy Story Mania replaces Who Wants to be a Millionaire
- 2008 Pleasure Island closes
- 2009 American Idol Experience replaces Doug Live!
- 2011 Disney Junior replaces Playhouse Disney
- 2012 Sounds Dangerous closes
- 2012 Journey of the Little Mermaid replaces Show White
- 2014 Seven Dwarfs Mine Train replaces 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea

Taken as a whole, WDW is "smaller" today than it was 10 years ago. (Sorry but I don't consider maintenance and upgrades of existing attractions such as TT or ST2 to be additions. Keeping the product "fresh" and in good working order is simply the cost of doing business.)

Don't get me wrong, in general I think replacements are good. They keep the parks current. The recent obsession with replacements would be understandable if the theme parks were bursting at the seams but, as many have noted, there is plenty of space available in Epcot, DHS, and DAK.

On my WDW trips, I enjoy talking with other vacationers to pick their brain; to get people's impressions of WDW. I do the same when people I know return from WDW vacations. Disney's senior management should do the same. Walk around the park, not wearing a Disney badge, and start casual conversations with people. Instead, they rely on endless streams of targeted surveys, treating customers like numbers instead of like people.

Based on what I've heard from the people that I've spoken with, the biggest complaint seems to be prices. As I've posted here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/which-wdw-ticket-would-you-choose.857245/

And here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/which-wdw-ticket-would-you-choose.857245/#post-5246806

The real cost of WDW has at least tripled since the good old days. More than ever, TDO seems to be accelerating what it costs people to visit WDW.

I'd guess the second biggest complaint from "typical" WDW guests are long lines. Replacing attractions doesn't alleviate lines since capacity doesn't significantly change. Furthermore, spending $1.5B to control who gets access to existing "experiences" doesn't help WDW's guests; it helps TDO's bottom line.

The third biggest complaint from "typical" WDW guests are the incomplete theme parks called Epcot, DHS, and DAK. Why are people now, more than ever, splitting their vacations and heading up I-4 to "The Boy Who Won't Be Named"? Sure, it's a great addition but, in the end, they’re "done" with WDW after 2 days at Epcot, DHS, and DAK. They're spending big bucks and are chasing after super headliners. Epcot, DHS, and DAK simply don't have enough to keep them entertained for more than a couple of days. If it wasn't for MK, I suspect they'd be abandoning WDW in droves.

WDW needs to stabilize its price-point. WDW needs to add capacity. WDW needs to make Epcot, DHS, and DAK as appealing as MK. TDO needs to do these things for its customers and stop thinking only about itself.
 

articos

Well-Known Member
Too bad mythos is like an island in a sea of mediocrity tho. I like Mels for what it is.. but honestly food in the park is nothing to pound their chest over at UNI IMO. I found Mythos nice for what it is in a theme park, but average compared to stand-alones.
Agreed. I've always thought UO's food mostly average at best, with a few above par, like Mythos and Finnegan's. At USF, Richter's and La Bamba always seemed to be better than Mel's, but still average. And the Italian place was always awful. But on the whole, to me, UO's food service is better than MK for in-park, if we're comparing MK to UNI.
 

GenerationX

Well-Known Member
WDW has all of the capacity it needs. There's already enough entertainment (and more) to keep the average family 100% occupied during the average vacation. WDW, unlike its competitors, is a mature investment.

The average family will take a day to visit HP land, because it's new, well done, and he is a popular character. WDW could have three new parks and E-ticket expansions in all of the existing parks and it wouldn't change the fact that HP land is new, well done, and features a popular character.

I'm not sure if the parks are maintained as well now as they were 5, 10, or 20 years ago. We've been going to WDW as a family since 2001 (and I was there as a kid in 1983, too), and the only problem I've noticed maintenance-wise is the Disco Yeti. I'd rather everything worked, too, but I doubt WDW has reached the point that the average guest experience is materially diminished due to maintenance issues.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
The parks are not maintained nearly as well as they used to be. Same for attractions... So what if a spreadsheet or business suit says they won't get a good return on something? The Disney way used to be the best possible and to hell with the rest. Now the legacy is slowly being forgotten, whilst at the same time management tries to continue to live off of it.

Family's don't just go to HP land, as is described above. They go to both Comcast parks. And consequently, both are noticeably busier year on year.

WDW has all the capacity it needs? Hardly.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
See, I just don't get this.

You approvingly quote a long list of years of blank nothingness for MK additions, to rubbish the claim that by comparison current MK is undergoing a veritable building spree? Seriously?

I have not seen a single picture of the MK in the last three years without scaffolds, cranes, steel beams. All of them, all pictures. Circusland, FLE, two new rides, tarps everywhere, Sorcerers game, overhaul of the Skyway area etcetera.

Yet here we are, having a serious (*ahem*) discussion that it is a 'provocation' to speak of a veritable building spree, that the MK used to add so much more on a yearly basis, that the current additions are insignificant compared to the 70s/80s/90s.

Wow. We could be standing directly on top of the Dwarf Coaster, wearing yellow helmets, ducking for a crane adding another piece of coaster track, overlooking Mermaid, and still some of you would look funny at me for me arguing that the MK is undergoing a building spree.

Edit: Disneyhead - mature is not the same as complete.
Oh, once again, I don't think we are arguing the same point. I agree that in comparison to the past the MK is now getting a veritable building spree. But that is sad since that said building spree consists of 2 D-tickets, 1 C-Ticket M&G (Belle's), 1 B-Ticket (Princess Fairytale Hall), and a restaurant. And I am not really one of those who ignores significant additions such as whole new theme and water parks, and major E-Tickets around the resort. Since, when I go, my one ticket parkhopper will allow access.
But I do agree with some that the MK is getting stale as a stand alone park. Dragging an 11 year old parade down Main Street at 3P followed by a 40 year old late model "slightly used" parade at night is really unacceptable. And the 9 year old Fireworks show is aslo a bit long in the tooth. Prior to 2000 that would not happen. But I do understand the impetus for why they are expanding in the way they are, I just think their plan isn't working out as they had planned. They are intentionally adding to the other parks and NOT to the MK for a reason. They are DESPERATELY trying to get the people to spread themselves around the resort as opposed to everyone just camping out in the MK. But instead of spreading the people out, they are just ing people off.

But my major point is that taking the resort as a whole, expansions/additions prior to 2000 were much more aggressive than since then. The last E-Ticket they added anywhere on property was 2006 with Everest. And when NFL is complete they still won't have a new high tech E-Ticket. 6 years so far without a new E-Ticket with only the promise of one with Avatar still many year out. That seems to be folly when the park up the road just threw out Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey. And has 3 AMAZINGLY high tech E-Tickets under construction as we speak. Universal is just fine with Disney resting on it's laurels.

And the fact that frickin' Sea World is the one that is bring an LPS guided Dark Ride to Orlando when Disney developed the tech for Tokyo's Pooh is embarassing. The fact that Sea World is now kicking their butt should send up Red Flags for any Disney fan.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
and if anyone was to smell what I have smelled near, behind and under tomorrowland you would avoid eating there completely, but definitely never at the Terrace. Gross.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Manta's my favorite coaster in Orlando. And Turtle Trek has an old-school EPCOT vibe to it -- only with new tech. Antarctica should be a very nice addition to an already-fun park.

Yes it does! Right down to the song as you exit! I am glad I am not the only one who noticed that. Sea World has been doing a slice of Disney, better than Disney has in recent years.
 

disney fan 13

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Manta's my favorite coaster in Orlando. And Turtle Trek has an old-school EPCOT vibe to it -- only with new tech. Antarctica should be a very nice addition to an already-fun park.

Agreed, Manta and Kraken are the best coasters in Orlando. Plus the additions of Turtletrek and Antarctica will make it a must visit for me. (Now if they could put something in the corner near shamu and the part would be complete.
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
Agreed, Manta and Kraken are the best coasters in Orlando. Plus the additions of Turtletrek and Antarctica will make it a must visit for me. (Now if they could put something in the corner near shamu and the part would be complete.

Which corner beside Shamu?

Shamu Stadium is surrounded by Wild Arctic and Shamu's Happy Harbor (and the lake).

If you are on about where the SeaGarden/Terrace Garden Buffet is (former location of the Clydesdales/Anheuser-Busch Hospitality House), then I am sure that that is where I have read somewhere that the next addition/ride will go!
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Which corner beside Shamu?

Shamu Stadium is surrounded by Wild Arctic and Shamu's Happy Harbor (and the lake).

If you are on about where the SeaGarden/Terrace Garden Buffet is (former location of the Clydesdales/Anheuser-Busch Hospitality House), then I am sure that that is where I have read somewhere that the next addition/ride will go!
Yep, I have heard that the old Hospitality House real estate is the location of "What's Next".
 

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