Miru
Well-Known Member
Is there an example of an original attraction that does this badly? Given we have an IP attraction that does it well.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Jungle Cruise Update
- Thread starter SSG
- Start date
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
I think of Small World as the kids wearing "traditional cultural" outfits, not that they are being stereotyped. But too many people like to be offended about anything and everything these days.
D
Deleted member 107043
Yup. I think I mentioned here somewhere that I recently watched Pinocchio on Disney+ and noted how I had forgotten how dark and downright frightening some of the segments are, especially for what is supposed to be a family film. As a culture it seems we've gradually moved away from anything that would remotely scare children.
D
Deleted member 107043
I think it all boils down to the world is far more complex and nuanced place than it was in Walt Disney's mind. Disneyland hasn't always aged well, but I'm glad there are responsible people in charge plainly stating the park's point of view on representation, and being clear about calling out mistakes and fixing them.
Dr.Cheeto
Active Member
Even if there was an equivalent to Marc Davis today, I'd worry they would probably act as an executive's pencil instead of having the freedom to come up with their own ideas. The gags and story was always clear in his original concept drawings, and only benefitted from minor animatronic animation, lighting, and sound.
The only thing that worries me about these modern updates is that they are all slightly more complicated and not as instantly readable as the original scenes - like the original POTC red head vs the new bad-a** yet friendly red head/co-auctioneer of ...grandfather clocks and used furniture..? They could have kept the original red head scene and included more cool female pirates that were as caricatured and drunk as their male counterparts to broaden the scope of the world. Or added that cool Marc Davis concept where the female pirates marooned the male pirates on an island and kept the treasure to themselves! But I digress...
Attachments
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I’ll check it out thanks. I guess my thing is why can’t something exist on an attraction if it exists in real life? Not to say everything in real life is necessarily appropriate on a Disneyland attraction but at any point in history would people exploring a remote jungle in Africa not have possibly stumbled into some tribes that look or behave the way they do on the attraction? Granted In an exaggerated / cartoonified Disney fashion. It’s not as if there is some disclaimer as you walk into the ride saying “ All Africans are represented by the headhunters on this attraction.” I guess where we can run into issues is if it is the ONLY way a particular culture or race is being represented in the park or company. I guess at certain point that was maybe the case. Not really today. I personally don’t view the headhunters as being any worse or better than the drunk, pillaging White pirates.
I think the issue is exacerbated by the fact that the only black/ African people on the attraction are savage and want to kill you. But then again the only white people on POTC are drunken, pillaging heathens. I don’t know, in the end I think at some point we all started taking this stuff way too seriously and it’s more virtue signaling than anything else. I’m pretty sure in 10 years even the Pirates drinking alcohol will be too much. In 20 who knows.
Last edited:
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Looks like they're replacing the black guys on the tree with the rhino and all other manner of wildlife surrounding them next to a beach of rocks. But really, that just made sense for the safari guides to be black. Now it's a bunch of white chicks and such? Ehh. Jungle Cruise possibly comes back from cultural sensitivity training with less black characters? I don't know, seems kinda wrong. But then, I don't like anything Disney does anymore, so.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
Mon, January 25, 2021
New Adventures to ‘Cast’ Off Soon Along World-Famous Jungle Cruise at Disneyland Park and Magic Kingdom Park
by Michael Ramirez, Public Relations Director, Disneyland Resort
At Disney Parks, we continue to look for ways to enhance classic attractions and elevate the experience for all of our guests. Today, we’re excited to share that we are building on the story of the Jungle Cruise at both Disneyland park at Disneyland Resort and Magic Kingdom Park at Walt Disney World Resort to include new adventures that stay true to the experience we know and love – more humor, wildlife and skipper heart – and also reflect and value the diversity of the world around us. There are no bigger fans of this attraction than our Imagineers so I’ve invited Kevin Lively – former Jungle Cruise skipper – to share a transmission from the world’s most remote tropical rivers!
Continuing a tradition that Walt Disney started more than six decades ago when he first enhanced the Jungle Cruise, the new creative concept for our river’s journey will be original to Walt Disney Imagineering, just like the attraction itself. Here’s a first look at some of the “gnu” magic we’re adding:
Imagineers are excited to invite current Jungle Cruise skippers at Disneyland park and Magic Kingdom park to a Jungle Navigation Company Roll Call, where they will be among the first to hear more about the new adventures and wonders coming down the river. Recently, Imagineers had the chance to provide a sneak peek to a few skippers at Magic Kingdom park – check out the Walt Disney World Ambassador team on Instagram, @WDW.Ambassador, to see additional reactions, and stay tuned for more details about the enhancements in store for the Jungle Cruise, coming later this year.
Damn it! Noooo!!!
Miru
Well-Known Member
The native figures were not only culturally outdated, but TECHNOLOGICALLY outdated for many years. I’m surprised they were never made animatronics instead of limited figures. Anyways, this will still be more trouble than it’s worth; more and more fanboys calling for Kim Irvine’s head, more suspicion about “woke”, etc.
D
Deleted member 107043
This isn't the place to have this discussion, and if you are truly curious and interested in learning about the relationship between European colonization, white supremacy, racism, and how it has fed into to negative stereotypes and the erasure of black people in Hollywood and popular culture (ie: Disneyland) there's plenty of information out there.
All that said, you tell me why it would acceptable for an internationally known destination, one intended to be a tribute to American idealism and Walt Disney's legacy, a man who happened to be white, to have an aggressive display of "savages" with spears drawn in attack as the only human AA representation of black people.
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
Do the black guides on the pole in JC and the black IASW dolls in Africa and the finale count as savages?
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
You re right. I’m not really sure I want to go down this rabbit hole.
In the case of the Jungle Cruise I don’t think Walts intention was to misrepresent Black or African people. I think they lived in a time where they didn’t have to worry about being politically correct and that having head hunters attack you on the boat seemed entertaining and like some good old fashioned fake danger on a Disney attraction. It seems like on a Jungle ride, if you re going to include people and want to include some element of danger that would be a very knee jerk approach of going about it. When you just have a few seconds to get your point across as a boat is going by how much better can you do it?
D
Deleted member 107043
Please clarify. Are you saying that African dolls and the hierarchical positioning of African natives below a white man invalidates the point I was making?
Last edited by a moderator:
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
I'm just gonna repost what I said in another thread for this...
Honestly, removing the natives makes more sense to me than retheming Splash Mountain. There's nothing actually racist about Splash Mountain, the argument that it's racist stems from the fact that it features characters and songs from a movie that has racist/problematic elements, none of which are actually in the ride. The natives... yeah, I'm not sure if anyone actually IS offended by 'em, but I can see why folks WOULD find them offensive. I obviously don't think the whole ride is racist, but I can UNDERSTAND how it could offend people. That's more than I can say for Splash Mountain.
Honestly, removing the natives makes more sense to me than retheming Splash Mountain. There's nothing actually racist about Splash Mountain, the argument that it's racist stems from the fact that it features characters and songs from a movie that has racist/problematic elements, none of which are actually in the ride. The natives... yeah, I'm not sure if anyone actually IS offended by 'em, but I can see why folks WOULD find them offensive. I obviously don't think the whole ride is racist, but I can UNDERSTAND how it could offend people. That's more than I can say for Splash Mountain.
Maybe they're getting the money for this the same way they're getting the money for the Splash Mountain retheme that they apparently refuse to cancel?
Disney wants to prove that it's "woke" or whatever. That's the main reason.
I think I first thought that was a photo when I saw it...
They'll probably just retheme the whole ride to Frozen or something.
D
Deleted member 107043
You're probably right, so he and his designers chose to do what many people in Hollywood did at the time, and still do, erase or diminish our role in the narrative. It's funny that the Disneyland dedication plaque refers to the "hard facts that have created America", and yet it intentionally avoids them.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
I don't believe him.
Walt Disney Imagineering Reveals Exciting Enhancements Coming to the Jungle Cruise - D23
We sat down with Walt Disney Imagineering Creative Portfolio Executive Chris Beatty to get all the details on everything coming to the Nile.d23.com
D23 interviews Chris Beatty who says, no, the movie is not influencing this redo.
The 'skipper' animatronic is this guy:
View attachment 526633
And apparently this is different from the gorillas trashing the camp scene because these are chimps - animals never before seen in the Jungle Cruise!
Homemade Imagineering
Well-Known Member
lol if they ever did that I’d purposefully ban myself from the parks.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
In the case of the Jungle Cruise, what exactly is your role in the narrative?
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
I was more referring to the point that the savages were the only black human AAs at the time of his death. And while I wouldn't call the pole scene great representation or anything, my interpretation of the scene was that the British explorer was the inexperienced type who'd talk a big talk, but run away the fastest at the sight of danger which is why he's at the top of the pole.
That's my interpretation at least, maybe you're right and it's as simple as the leader of the party being the top. Neither of us can ask Marc Davis or Walt Disney what they were personally thinking without a séance at the Haunted Mansion.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
I like the headhunters. Reminded me of King Kong. Why would the natives on this island want tourists invading it with a fleet of large boats. Let me guess, now they'll be the friendly Native People who assist the bumbling tourists when they're in danger? How boring.