Jungle Cruise Update

[mickEblu]

I do firmly believe Lincoln will be gone by the end of the year. It's a Small World will
have changes done to remove perceived stereotypes.

I don’t even understand how you change Small World. The whole ride is “stereotypes” of different cultures. If they get rid of those stereotypes you re left with a bunch of dolls wearing Zara and H&M all over the world.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I mean the pirates are robbers and are bad guys. I don't think Disney would get any sympathy for championing that an under represented group needs to be portrayed as criminals.

So re-write the script. Erasing an entire race of people isn't the solution. I get it, it's a theme park ride, so I'll live if they never make the change, but from every other viewpoint of what Disneyland represents as a cultural icon this is a terrible oversight.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I don’t even understand how you change Small World. The whole ride is “stereotypes” of different cultures. If they get rid of those stereotypes you re left with a bunch of dolls wearing Zara and H&M all over the world.

They've already changed it to detract from the message of unity and make it about Disney characters. Thanks, Kim!

 

[mickEblu]

It was just a matter of time before the 'Headhunters' got the boot. Personally, I feel like removing the skull pile, native attack and all associated references would have been enough to clear anyone's conscience. Sam is a different matter. He is as renowned as the 'Redhead', enough so to get his own bar! The "..two of his for one of yours," gag is just behind the stretching room spiel in terms of noted Disneyland quips. I hated to see him lose his tribal mask years ago, but removing the heads really takes away something iconic. I get the feeling that Sam will stay, albeit with some variation of the Red treatment. I hope Imagineers take this is an opportunity for them to show that they can do better this time.

Precisely my first thought! There's a literal jungle of animals to choose from, why not create a gag surrounding a creature never before seen in the ride? Wouldn't any Imagineer leap at the chance to create a brand new Marc Davis style vignette? Why make a new scene if it's redundant?

On that note, I feel like there are better uses for the budget that redoing the rhino gag. I appreciate that it's staying though. Moreover, I appreciate that neither piece of concept art seems inspired by the upcoming movie, though I realize that storm in on the horizon. I'm more concerned about the skippers facing a repeat of the '90s, when management doggedly policed their spiel, resulting in some firings. It doesn't seem out of the question that ties to the new movie may become mandatory in the script.

Also, I feel a tinge of concern for the pistols. They went away once and against all odds they came back years later. I was thrilled to say the least. Hearing them go off as you're waiting outside at the ticket booth is just as sentimental as the train whistle for me. Furthermore, they represent the ideal compromise when dealing with a controversial topic at the park. Before the pistols were removed, skippers shot at the hippos. Since they've come back, a warning shot is now fired instead. The key element is still there, but it's distanced from the element considered an issue. I can only hope that the upcoming changes are in this vain. I'll end on an optimistic note, as I really do love the piranhas they added for the fiftieth anniversary and perhaps similar additions are in store.

I Almost forgot Trader Sam had a mask. No wonder he feels kind of “new” to me.

I hope Trader Sam stays and that they put his mask back on. I don’t really have any attachment to the headhunters but I do lament the loss of yet another weird/ macabre element of Disneyland with losing the skulls, headhunters etc. Seems that that stuff has no place in current Disneyland anymore. It’s not that they re erasing Old school Disneyland (at least in this case for me) as much as it is they are homogenizing everything more and more with each change and just eliminating things that us human beings are drawn to ( the weird/ scary/ macabre) and help round out some of these attractions from only being safe/ funny.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

IASW is a weird one. While the message is extremely important and is very much relevant, the cultures can be misinterpreted as stereotypes in some parts of the attraction. I can’t see them doing anything too serious since the overall massage of the attraction is enough to override any “problematic” elements, though I am curious as to how they’ll handle it. I know @WDW Pro mentioned they wanted to alter the doll’s skin tones, similar to how Paris does it in their version if you pay attention.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Good updates all around. Good work on this one Disney.

 

[D.Silentu]

I mean the pirates are robbers and are bad guys.

Also, hen merchants.

 

[Rich T]

Of course I'm pleased by this news. The change is welcome and way overdue.

Now can we get some black and indigenous people in POTC please? I never understood how a show that takes place in the Caribbean, of all places, could so unashamedly erase black people without anyone noticing or raising a fuss.

I was about to argue that the only roles available on PoC—besides victims—are scoundrels, villains, knaves, mauraders, embezzlers, ravagers, kidnappers, etc. and that I don’t think it’s an insult to NOT be included in that lineup...

But then I remembered that now they’re just a bunch of harmless sailors holding a furniture auction.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I was about to argue that the only roles available on PoC—besides victims—are scoundrels, villains, knaves, mauraders, embezzlers, ravagers, kidnappers, etc. and that I don’t think it’s an insult to NOT be included in that lineup...

But then I remembered that now they’re just a bunch of harmless sailors holding a furniture auction.

And let's not forget that those victims (other than the chase women) are implied to be rich, white imperialists. (Especially after the 2017 where the auction scene hostages are now dressed like French nobility?)

 

[WEDfan9798]

The Jungle Cruise is a 100% experiential attraction. It doesn't need a linear story- and modern WDI doesn't understand how to integrate story into an attraction at all, relying on linear point a to point b stories like a movie (Mermaid is an example of this)

Attractions have to rely on emotional storytelling- taking the rider through a series of events that flow emotionally, rise in intensity, climax, then wind down before the end.

Looking at Pirates at Disneyland is the perfect example of this-

Bayou>Caverns>Ship battle>Town>Burning town with the song (climax)>jail/shootout/bayou (falling action/ending). It doesn't have a linear story but it does use the same basic elements of a story to create an attraction that's emotionally satisfying.

Mansion and Splash do this exceptionally well also.

Jungle Cruise is more rudimentary, initially it didn't have many of the vignettes we know and love (Marc Davis added those in the '60s) but was purely a tour of the jungle. I worry that a linear story that's 'meta' (now that WDI tries to be meta every chance they get) will weaken the immersion of being in the jungle.

EXACTLY! That's my biggest issue with the update...

 

[WEDfan9798]

Similar to Redd, “Trader Sam” may remain but with possibly a new/changed look. I.e. imagine a revised appearance (trader Samantha anyone?).

In all honesty none of these changes bother me. I just question why there is a sudden sense of urgency to push all these changes out all at once. Particularly during a pandemic when the parks are closed and revenue is minimal.

At least with this one there is potential “synergy” with the film’s release.

I hope you're right.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I'm...fine with this? On paper?

But it's not the idea that could be the problem, it'll be the execution. There weren't many people who could stage things as well as Marc Davis THEN. NOW?!?!? If I had faith that they would keep the spirit of the gags, reskin the figures, and minimally affect the staging, I'd be 100% on board.

I have to say that the fact that they're not just making this all movie tie-in is a relief and shows, dare I say, RESTRAINT by modern Disney standards.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Can I ask why a black pirate is better than an African tribe waving their spears?

Sure. I'm not asking specifically for black pirates. We are all aware of colonization, slavery, and the rest of the ugly things that aren't appropriate for Disneyland, but why not at least include black people as townspeople? Ignoring the presence of black people outright in a region of the world that is often predominantly black seems weird.

 

[WEDfan9798]

These changes seem completely fine to me. I only wish Disney didn't feel the need to make big press releases out of minor upcoming changes like this and left them as a surprise. When I was a kid I assumed imagineers were constantly making changes to update the park and looked forward to new things every visit. This news seems so minor and inevitable that I'm sure none of us would bat an eye if we saw it in person without having months to analyze the press release on these forums. Sure we can argue that they're removing original (outdated) Marc Davis gags, but that's only scary to fans because there doesn't seem to be anyone left at WDI today with the same caliber of draftsmanship, posing, and wit as Davis to update the gags. I'm happy to see them continue to update the original Jungle Cruise and glad it's not being completely scrapped for a Frozen, Moana, or their new "The Last Dragon" overlay.

Exactly, we need more Marc Davis in the world...

 

[mickEblu]

It’s nice not to have to get too worked up about these changes anymore. As terrible as some of these changes have been and how poorly the execution may come out in the jungle Cruise, it will still be the Jungle Cruise, more or less. POTC is still POTC more or less. Splash Mountain is gone (and so is TOT). Not only will you not be able to hear any of those songs on the ride, you can’t even hear ZADD in the esplanade.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Can I ask why a black pirate is better than an African tribe waving their spears?

This is worth a quick read for anyone curious about black pirates in the Caribbean during 1600s - 1700s.

@mickEblu I also want to point out that an "African tribe waving their spears" fits nicely into the Euro-centric black savage stereotype. A cunning black pirate captain is pretty much the complete opposite.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I don't know this Splash Mountain you refer to. There's never been any such ride at Disneyland.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I'm neutral on this, granted I've never really cared about JC personally but these changes look not bad and everybody should be happy that they're entirely original and not movie-related.

I also think out of all the attractions at Disney Parks, Jungle Cruise was the most expected ride to get changed for PC reasons.

 

[mickEblu]

Sure. I'm not asking specifically for black pirates. We are all aware of colonization, slavery, and the rest of the ugly things that aren't appropriate for Disneyland, but why not at least include black people as townspeople? Ignoring the presence of black people outright in a region of the world that is often predominantly black seems weird.

It does seem odd and i wouldn't mind that addition at all. I honestly don’t have any attachment to the head hunters. I just don’t like that with every change we lose more of the weird/scary/ macabre. I think those things have a place at Disneyland and help make the attractions feel well rounded and stand out from just being safe and funny. I mean even on the new fairytale rides that have a great villains they are almost reduced to nothing.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I just don’t like that with every change we lose more of the weird/scary/ macabre.

Yeah this is one of the biggest problems I have with a lot of these recent attraction changes. Feels like modern Disney just wants everything to be as sanitized, safe and corporatized as possible.