Jungle Cruise Update

[mickEblu]

I think I would be more offended by a Pirate than a headhunter. A pirate is invading other peoples ships, property, towns and homes. The headhunter is on his own land and defending his own territory. Sure, he may want your head but so what.

@Dr. Hans Reinhardt just curious, would you be ok with the scene if it was framed as them being tribe people instead of head hunters and that they re defending their territory from foreigners? Is it the headhunter narrative that you re bothered by or is it that the only Black person AAs in all Disneyland were depicted as “savages” in grass skirts. I can understand the former. The latter I think gets a pass due to the context of the attraction. But I could be splitting hairs now. I guess the issue isn’t in the weeds but more when looked at from a birds eye view.

 

[mickEblu]

I like the headhunters. Reminded me of King Kong. Why would the natives on this island want tourists invading it with a fleet of large boats. Let me guess, now they'll be the friendly Native People who assist the bumbling tourists when they're in danger? How boring.

Yeah this is my thought process. Just posted something very similar

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

This is worth a quick read for anyone curious about black pirates in the Caribbean during 1600s - 1700s.

@mickEblu I also want to point out that an "African tribe waving their spears" fits nicely into the Euro-centric black savage stereotype. A cunning black pirate captain is pretty much the complete opposite.

so you are saying african tribes never waved spears then? in history ?

 

[Miru]

Yup. I think I mentioned here somewhere that I recently watched Pinocchio on Disney+ and noted how I had forgotten how dark and downright frightening some of the segments are, especially for what is supposed to be a family film. As a culture it seems we've gradually moved away from anything that would remotely scare children.

It’s a shame we’re quickly reverting to the days of “My Gym Partner’s A Monkey” and the like, as we did such a good job at avoiding those days earlier last decade. This has caused a strange side effect of causing things “aimed at adults” to become MORE objectionable and terrifying to compensate. (Cases inpoint; the Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Big Mouth, etc)

I feel like there were still some attempts until very recently.

 

[el_super]

It's been six months since they announced Splash Mountain closing.

I wonder whats coming in June.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Of course I'm pleased by this news. The change is welcome and way overdue.

Now can we get some black and indigenous people in POTC please? I never understood how a show that takes place in the Caribbean, of all places, could so unashamedly erase black people without anyone noticing or raising a fuss.

We always have to beg for proper representation. But didn’t you know Africans all live in huts, are cannibals, and hunt with spears? If you go back to your colonized history book, you’ll see it’ll say it somewhere in there.

The lack of black figures in Pirates is unsurprising. Never mind the fact that the ride was built in the 60s, a time when non-black artists had zero interest in healthy black representation, but now in the 21st century, there aren’t many of in the room making creative decisions. They’ve got to wait until someone from the community makes a complaint and points something out before the lightbulb turns on.

 

[mickEblu]

So this, then Peter Pan, then Enchanted Tiki Room, some small tweaks to IASW and then that’s it right? What was the problem with Lincoln again? Still crossing my fingers they don’t remove the hanging corpse in HM’s stretching room.

 

[Brer Panther]

It's been six months since they announced Splash Mountain closing.

I wonder whats coming in June.

With any luck, confirmation that it's been cancelled and they're building a Princess and the Frog ride elsewhere in the park(s).

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

But didn’t you know Africans all live in huts, are cannibals, and hunt with spears? If you go back to your colonized history book, you’ll see it’ll say it somewhere in there.

I forgot how african tribes deep in the jungle live in modern apartments. silly me.

 

[el_super]

With any luck, confirmation that it's been cancelled and they're building a Princess and the Frog ride elsewhere in the park(s).

It won't be.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I forgot how african tribes deep in the jungle live in modern apartments. silly me.

You missed the point, but you always do that, so...

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

So this, then Peter Pan, then Enchanted Tiki Room, some small tweaks to IASW and then that’s it right? What was the problem with Lincoln again? Still crossing my fingers they don’t remove the hanging corpse in HM’s stretching room.

The Rivers of America, Frontierland, Main Street, Walt statue, Indiana Jones...perhaps just destroy the entire park and start over.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

You missed the point, but you always do that, so...

No I got your point. I was pointing out the flaw in your point.

 

[Californian Elitist]

No I got your point. I was pointing out the flaw in your point.

If you actually understood the point, you wouldn’t have made that comment. I never mentioned Africans and spears in correlation to Jungle Cruise.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Regarding the changes, I’m not upset, but I’ll wait and see how they’re executed before I pass serious judgement.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

*Native People

 

[Deleted member 107043]

In the case of the Jungle Cruise, what exactly is your role in the narrative?

It's probably best if I let this go. I encourage you to do some work and query folks away from Disney fansites and get informed on this subject.

I was more referring to the point that the savages were the only black human AAs at the time of his death. And while I wouldn't call the pole scene great representation or anything, my interpretation of the scene was that the British explorer was the inexperienced type who'd talk a big talk, but run away the fastest at the sight of danger which is why he's at the top of the pole.

That's my interpretation at least, maybe you're right and it's as simple as the leader of the party being the top. Neither of us can ask Marc Davis or Walt Disney what they were personally thinking without a séance at the Haunted Mansion.

It doesn't matter much to me whether Walt Disney and Marc Davis, two white men who had been successful in Hollywood, were racists or not. What matters to me is that they literally designed tableaus with racist undertones and then put them in Disneyland and then again in Walt Disney World. I'll stop here since this thread is not the place for expanding on my point of view on racism and how Disney Parks casually promote racist stereotypes.

TLDR: I'm far less concerned with why Walt and the Imagineers created what they did than I am with Disney correcting it. All I'm asking for is positive representational balance and equity in my theme park attractions.

 

[mickEblu]

It's probably best if I let this go. I encourage you to do some work and query folks away from Disney fansites and get informed on this subject.



It doesn't matter much to me whether Walt Disney and Marc Davis, two white men who, up to the point of designing Disneyland, had been successful in Hollywood, were racists or not. What matters to me is that they literally designed tableaus with racist undertones and then put them in Disneyland and then again in Walt Disney World. I'll stop here since this thread is not the place for expanding on my point of view on racism and how Disney Parks casually promotes racist stereotypes.

TLDR: I'm far less concerned with why Walt and the Imagineers created what they did than I am with Disney correcting it. All I'm asking for is positive representational balance and equity in my theme park attractions.

I’m good but thank you

 

[waltography]

I'll stop here since this thread is not the place for expanding on my point of view on racism and how Disney Parks casually promotes racist stereotypes.

Now imagine if Disney's America actually got off the ground. A historiographical nightmare if I've ever heard one.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I do firmly believe Lincoln will be gone by the end of the year. It's a Small World will
have changes done to remove perceived stereotypes.

My bet is Tiki Room is next. As soon as Twitter learns it's a white man voicing Jose...