Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[geekza]

Imagineering these days is just a completely different animal than it was when it was created. Originally, you had all these folks who had worked as animators and story men for Walt and each was hand-picked because of their strengths in a particular area. It was a time of innovation and creativity, where they were doing things because they thought it would be fun for guests and then figured out how they could pull it off. The reason EPCOT Center was so great when it was built was because many of the original guard came back to work on it and passed their passion and knowledge on to the "new guard." After the failure of EuroDisney, money for the parks dried up, things started to stagnate, and more emphasis was put on doing more with less. In the latter half of Eisner's tenure, all the old guard had retired and the "suits" took over. The mission of the parks changed from, "let's give people the best of the best," to "figure out how to make more money." Imagineering became just another workforce, whose job was to take orders from a management team whose priority was to promote corporate synergy and increase shareholder value. They build what they are told, even if what they were being asked to design had no thought or heart put into it. They're a brand, now, rather than a group to be idolized. Very few of the people who learned at the feet of the original group are around. I'm sure many of the Imagineers still care and want to do a great job, but they're not given free reign to, well, "imagine." They facilitate a corporate agenda. The parks are no longer a playground, they're a product.

 

[peter11435]

But is it? I would be willing to bet if they came up with a great attraction ... it would be green lit. Look at Mystic Manor. Stellar ride ... No IP.

Not how it works.

Unfortunately

 

[HauntedPirate]

The Jungle Cruise is, in TDO's opinion, a ride they can under pay saps to operate and then those saps become the star of the attraction... not the attraction itself.
The problem?
Jungle used to be (until, let's say the mid 2000's) a great attraction to work and the Skipper's took pride in their job. You could afford an apartment on Disney's wages, you could make the script your own, it was loose to work the Jungle and you have freedom, and it was fun to work the Jungle.

Disney came in and homogenized the spiel (shocker) to the point where it wasn't funny one bit and started coming down HARD on skippers who even breathed over the line Disney drew in the sand. This, along with toxic front line managment and Disney refusing to raise wages to keep in line with inflation of living costs, zapped away the pride of the cast members. The cast members started to subliminally get in a "you get what you pay for" attitude towards the job (because, remember... Jungle cast don't get a premium for basically performing all day... they're making as much as the cast member who hits one button at the Hall of Presidents make and they're making considerably less than the Princesses who get to spend 40mins on/40mins off in their air conditioned meet+greet locations) because the job started to wear on them. Now, you have skippers just trying to get through their day without snapping performing a sickeningly unfunny script through broken plastic animals. Couple that with the fact that I've NEVER seen all the effects working on Jungle.... and... well... you have a sad sack of an attraction.
But TDO doesn't care.
I really doubt we'll ever seen a huge Jungle refresh.

Honest question - What could a guest do to show their appreciation and improve a skipper's day, even a little? Reading your post, I have a feeling many of us around here would love to make a skipper's day a little brighter.

 

[Maeryk]

But is it? I would be willing to bet if they came up with a great attraction ... it would be green lit. Look at Mystic Manor. Stellar ride ... No IP.

Space Mountain, the HM variants, Pirates, they are ALL "ips" at this point. Have been since the second one of any of them was built.

 

[Maeryk]

Honestly?
Laugh and smile.

Maybe I'm revealing myself,
but I'm a former Skipper.
It gets so hard going around in a circle making "jokes" to blank faces. It demoralizes you a bit.
So... even if they're not funny... give skippers some good laughs and engage with them!
I felt, a lot, like I was treated like an animatronic in a West World loop!
Interact with the Skippers, laugh with the Skippers, and the Skippers will give you a better/funnier boat AND you'll make the Skipper's day better

I was throwing Statler/Waldorf level stuff back at the skipper on one boat, everyone else was sitting there like rocks, and the Skipper seemed really into it. Nothing mean, just playing along with the dumb jokes and obvious puns.

The best was when we were stuck, at night, because a boat had broken down, and they had to clear everything out to tow it back to the dock, then to maintenance, and we got to sit in a line of boats for about 40 minutes, with our Skip throwing everything he had at the wall, including sing alongs and yelling at the other boats.

 

[janoimagine]

Space Mountain, the HM variants, Pirates, they are ALL "ips" at this point. Have been since the second one of any of them was built.

Respectfully disagree ... everything your referencing were original attractions built without the need for a modern character or franchise to sell them ... they are/were creatively unique to themselves. Clones of each other now? Yes, but initially based on an existing IP ... No.

 

[janoimagine]

The Jungle Cruise is, in TDO's opinion, a ride they can under pay saps to operate and then those saps become the star of the attraction... not the attraction itself.
The problem?
Jungle used to be (until, let's say the mid 2000's) a great attraction to work and the Skipper's took pride in their job. You could afford an apartment on Disney's wages, you could make the script your own, it was loose to work the Jungle and you have freedom, and it was fun to work the Jungle.

Disney came in and homogenized the spiel (shocker) to the point where it wasn't funny one bit and started coming down HARD on skippers who even breathed over the line Disney drew in the sand. This, along with toxic front line managment and Disney refusing to raise wages to keep in line with inflation of living costs, zapped away the pride of the cast members. The cast members started to subliminally get in a "you get what you pay for" attitude towards the job (because, remember... Jungle cast don't get a premium for basically performing all day... they're making as much as the cast member who hits one button at the Hall of Presidents make and they're making considerably less than the Princesses who get to spend 40mins on/40mins off in their air conditioned meet+greet locations) because the job started to wear on them. Now, you have skippers just trying to get through their day without snapping performing a sickeningly unfunny script through broken plastic animals. Couple that with the fact that I've NEVER seen all the effects working on Jungle.... and... well... you have a sad sack of an attraction.
But TDO doesn't care.
I really doubt we'll ever seen a huge Jungle refresh.

Really sorry to hear that man ... I agree ... The skippers are performers and not ride operators and should be paid as such. Your story reminds me of the eye opener I got when I watched 'The Florida Project.' I was shocked at the living conditions a lot of the people who work in Floridas entertainment industry actually have.

 

[Maeryk]

Respectfully disagree ... everything your referencing were original attractions built without the need for a modern character or franchise to sell them ... they are/were creatively unique to themselves. Clones of each other now? Yes, but initially based on an existing IP ... No.

That's why I said "now".

And half the parks, or more, on opening day were IP, flat out. I don't get this weird "they need to build new groundbreaking thrilling rides, but they can't be tied to anything people recognize" fetish. I just don't.

 

[The Pho]

That's why I said "now".

And half the parks, or more, on opening day were IP, flat out. I don't get this weird "they need to build new groundbreaking thrilling rides, but they can't be tied to anything people recognize" fetish. I just don't.

It's a mindset that restricts where they may go with an experience. Sometimes you start with an IP and you get what lots refer to as a book report ride, those Fantasyland style rides that move you slowly through the plot of the film. Where the IP is more important than the actual ride design. Other times they may have a ride idea and be working on it, only to realize that maybe this IP would actually take this concept to the next level, like Tower of Terror. To me its the way the idea is approached usually. Basically I find that if the question is how do we get this IP into the park rather than what will work best for this ride, the result tends to be less impressive. Sometimes IP is very much the best way to go, but when they ignore creating something new, they are holding themselves back.

 

[Thelazer]

Give it another year. The spiel will become automated..
Heck I wouldn't be shocked if they come up with "automated" boats that are driven by spirits too.

 

[baymenxpac]

The Jungle Cruise is, in TDO's opinion, a ride they can under pay saps to operate and then those saps become the star of the attraction... not the attraction itself.
The problem?
Jungle used to be (until, let's say the mid 2000's) a great attraction to work and the Skipper's took pride in their job. You could afford an apartment on Disney's wages, you could make the script your own, it was loose to work the Jungle and you have freedom, and it was fun to work the Jungle.

Disney came in and homogenized the spiel (shocker) to the point where it wasn't funny one bit and started coming down HARD on skippers who even breathed over the line Disney drew in the sand. This, along with toxic front line managment and Disney refusing to raise wages to keep in line with inflation of living costs, zapped away the pride of the cast members. The cast members started to subliminally get in a "you get what you pay for" attitude towards the job (because, remember... Jungle cast don't get a premium for basically performing all day... they're making as much as the cast member who hits one button at the Hall of Presidents make and they're making considerably less than the Princesses who get to spend 40mins on/40mins off in their air conditioned meet+greet locations) because the job started to wear on them. Now, you have skippers just trying to get through their day without snapping performing a sickeningly unfunny script through broken plastic animals. Couple that with the fact that I've NEVER seen all the effects working on Jungle.... and... well... you have a sad sack of an attraction.
But TDO doesn't care.
I really doubt we'll ever seen a huge Jungle refresh.

everyone needs to read this post, particularly those who think WDW "has never been better."

my buddy was a skipper (around '05-'06), and he was a college program employee. think about that for a second: a 21-year-old dude down there for a semester is basically going to make or break a guest experience on an attraction. that's a bold strategy, cotton. let's see if it pays off for them.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Imagineering these days is just a completely different animal than it was when it was created. Originally, you had all these folks who had worked as animators and story men for Walt and each was hand-picked because of their strengths in a particular area. It was a time of innovation and creativity, where they were doing things because they thought it would be fun for guests and then figured out how they could pull it off. The reason EPCOT Center was so great when it was built was because many of the original guard came back to work on it and passed their passion and knowledge on to the "new guard." After the failure of EuroDisney, money for the parks dried up, things started to stagnate, and more emphasis was put on doing more with less. In the latter half of Eisner's tenure, all the old guard had retired and the "suits" took over. The mission of the parks changed from, "let's give people the best of the best," to "figure out how to make more money." Imagineering became just another workforce, whose job was to take orders from a management team whose priority was to promote corporate synergy and increase shareholder value. They build what they are told, even if what they were being asked to design had no thought or heart put into it. They're a brand, now, rather than a group to be idolized. Very few of the people who learned at the feet of the original group are around. I'm sure many of the Imagineers still care and want to do a great job, but they're not given free reign to, well, "imagine." They facilitate a corporate agenda. The parks are no longer a playground, they're a product.

 

[Phil12]

The "spiel button" is already installed into every boat on that river.

I think that Disney needs to replace the skippers with an automated system. After all, Alexa can tell jokes and interact with people. Surely Disney can come up with an automated reply system and eliminate the need for a "spiel button".

 

[celluloid]

In my opinion,
regular attractions cast should work the doc and an Equity Performer, who auditioned for the role and was cast, should be your skipper.
That's 100% how the attraction should operate if TDO was concerned with quality.
THAT'S the refresh that Jungle needs.

Even spiel pay would be a start. Pathetic that the most famous spieling theme park attraction does not have it.

 

[Kman101]

They should figure out a way to add a merchandise location for Jungle Cruise, with the new movie coming out and the ride being such a classic, why does Pirates get a big gift shop but not Jungle Cruise?

Too bad a shop full of sunglasses that could work at a kiosk, couldn't have been a merch location for Jungle Cruise ...

 

[aladdin2007]

Too bad a shop full of sunglasses that could work at a kiosk, couldn't have been a merch location for Jungle Cruise ...

I miss the previous shop, I mean I know it was branded clothing etc but it was always nice and well themed, and had some fun different things. But yeah otherwise would have been the perfect location for the park lands home/kitchen line they had a year or so ago with all the adventureland plates, and orange bird items, etc. Disney is really missing the boat, literally. merch is too generic across the board now, and detheming seems to be the goal.

 

[DisneyDreamerxyz]

I asked my friend that works at Jungle Cruise and he said that guests ask all the time where they can buy Jungle Cruise merch and it's hard to explain because it's not all in one place, there's various items at random stores.

 

[rricks26]

Issue is, from my understanding, the company technically only requires the skipper to do the safety spiel. All other scripts and jokes are optional. That makes it where they can keep it where skips don’t get any pay premiums.

 

[Maeryk]

I miss the previous shop, I mean I know it was branded clothing etc but it was always nice and well themed, and had some fun different things. But yeah otherwise would have been the perfect location for the park lands home/kitchen line they had a year or so ago with all the adventureland plates, and orange bird items, etc. Disney is really missing the boat, literally. merch is too generic across the board now, and detheming seems to be the goal.

That stuff was all at The Emporium last time I was there. With a complete selection at WoD.

I think the main marketing idea with the shops is to put stuff like luggage, purses, etc nobody wants to haul around all day close to the exit.. "we can grab it on the way out" with a much more in depth selection of specific ride themed luggable stuff and toys your kids will carry at the ride shops and small boutiques in the parks.

 

[geekza]

If the skippers would, frankly, stop complaining about it and go to a union meeting... maybe there could be discussions.
The KJS cast at DAK get more pay because they went to union meets all in a giant group and got it done.
Jungle kids need to do the same.

Unfortunately, companies like Disney and Amazon do everything possible to discourage joining a union. So much misinformation has been spread about how unions are corrupt and lazy that most people forget that trade unions are the reason why we had a 40-hour work week, health benefits, safety regulations, etc. Even in WV, where I'm from and where there was a literal war for the right to organize, many people have bought into the idea that unions are bad. They aren't. They're necessary in order to prevent wholesale exploitation of workers.