WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Makes it less confusing, more pleasing to the eye, and just logically makes more sense layout wise.
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Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot
- Thread starter Rteetz
- Start date
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I liked the synchronized music/water show.
Destroying the Fountain of Nations itself was fine, but they had the opportunity to build a new and improved version.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Right. And that idea (as much as we fans might disagree) came from guests, who just didn’t get Epcot (I know, that’s Disney’s fault) and evaluated it as not “Disney” enough (which Disney then mis-interpreted as “not having enough film IP/characters).
The fact that people are still packing that park despite the giant construction zone in the center supports this thinking.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Even there I think it was more that the content became outdated than anything else, from a guest perspective. EPCOT was seemingly very popular in the 1980s, but it started to drop off in the early 90s as everything aged.
Using IP is a more cost-effective solution for Disney, though, because those attractions don't really require updating.
DznyRktekt
Well-Known Member
Because symmetry was the basis of the original park layout, similar to the hub and spoke design of the Magic Kingdom. Imagine if half of Main Street USA was demolished and trees planted in its place. Symmetry isn't always a necessity where balance is achieved but it is jarring to some to have such a drastic change.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
That makes sense. It is certainly a big change. But it’s not one that I think is vital to What Used to Be Known as Future World.
In my opinion, symmetry in design should be a tool, not a goal.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think that’s the theory they’re operating under for now. I completely understand the desire to give people recognizable IP and the opportunity to build things that can capitalize on the “knowns” of existing stories.
This is why, whenever Disney does something original—even if it’s a miss—I try to be supportive.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I mean, I guess if grass lawns, low shrubs, decorative palm trees, and man-made materials are your idea of “incorporating nature,” it’s always been a shining example.
Fair point on the tombstones, I had already forgotten those.
The font on the signage is fine.
Maybe you had to be there.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I was there! Only one big trip to the East Coast when I was a kid (we lived near Disneyland), and I LOVED Epcot–especially the forward-looking edutainment aspect of the entire park. In that sense, it really resonated with me.
When I started going to WDW regularly as an adult, it quickly felt dated and it was clear that Disney had abandoned the original concept. But never, in that entire time, did I think that Epcot gave us a picture of a future that incorporated nature.
I know some disagree.
Its weird how people are showing pics that are like 30+ years old to prove epcot core wasnt a concrete wasteland..... Its very very obvious in this thread that the people talking about how epcot core is a concrete jungle arent talking about how it looked 30 years ago they are talking about how its looked for the last 30 years... Epcot hasnt looked like that for a long time and I bet a large chunk if not most people that go to epcot have never seen it when it looked like that so all they know is the current (last current) concrete central core. This new reimagining of the Core of the park not only incorporates tons of lush greenery, but is also a throwback to how it used to have trees and greenery....whats not to like?
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Theme parks are designed space. How buildings relate to each other creates an experience. It feels different to stand in front of a church on an old town square (space making objects) than it is to stand in front a suburban church surrounded by parking lots (objects in space). Which one is typically considered to be more pleasant, the old square or the parking lots of sprawl?
Because themed entertainment is storytelling through built space, the natural form to utilize is space making objects. EPCOT Center eschewed that for the pavilion concept that utilizes objects in space. I’m order to not have the senseless feeling of urban sprawl its objects are arrange following distinct organizational patterns, Future World radiating out from CommuniCore and World Showcase a ring. The symmetry of CommuniCore was part of that organizational pattern that defined the land as something spatially and thematically distinct.
What now is the spatial definition of the neighborhoods? Even Disney seems to struggle with keeping what is where straight. The organizing principle of the space has been removed but no new organization has been established. The new central hub isn’t even all part of the same neighborhood with Journey of Water now acting as an edge that cuts into the center plaza and even the new replacement building is designed to focus outward, away from the plaza.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Journey of Water is not being carved out of actual rock. There’s nothing natural about the new design or the Diller design. It’s all man made. Denser foliage doesn’t make it more natural.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I get the value of symmetry to what they originally built. But it’s been a LONG time since Disney used that as an organizing principle for Epcot. The mostly-closed and windowless CommuniCore W/E buildings functioned more like walls to route the uninitiated guests straight through to WS. There was a “hub” to the park, but from my perspective, it didn’t seem to function like one to me for these last several years.
Of course, asymmetrical design/layout can be used to help with organization, placemaking, and storytelling, too. I’m hoping (against hope) that someone at WDI is thinking about this.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
These are true statements!
My point was that the image of the future that Epcot was designed around did not do much to show a future that is integrated with nature. A new design can do that—even if the “nature” is built using man-made materials mimicking natural ones.
Animal Kingdom’s Tree of Life is made of man-made materials used to mimic natural materials. Even still, it seems pretty effective at creating an environment that shows human places that incorporate nature.
I agree, denser foliage is no more natural than sparse.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
And Journey of Water now acts as a wall. Journey of Water does not address your issue and in fact makes it worse. The same is true of the new CommuniCore Hall with its literal solid wall facing the central plaza.
Nobody has said asymmetry cannot be used, but it is not.
This is what is meant by their being a narrative. The new design is not fixing issues and in some cases is doubling down on them, but that’s all just ignored.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Ignored by whom?
I’m not saying Journey of Water will fix anything that Disney has broken about the park. I’m just happy that trees, rocks, water, and plants are going to be represented (man-made or otherwise), because up to this point, the lack of nature (or facsimile) came across as somewhat cold and dated.
There was originally integrity to Epcot’s design, but those days are long past. The problem I’ve got with this whole “narrative” line of thinking is that it leaves no room for a perspective like mine:
- Still sad at what Epcot has become
- At this point, getting something new is better than leaving it to rot
- Unhappy with IP (maybe especially Moana in Epcot)
- Happy that depictions of nature will be incorporated
- Fine with the loss of symmetry (which wasn’t being used for its originally intended purpose)
- Frustrated that folks here are like, “No, you’re either devoted to a lifetime of hatemourning what Epcot used to be/has become or you’re a pixie-duster who didn’t understand what a masterpiece Epcot truly was.”
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
That's not really nature.
It's water with some grass, and the camera angles really make the green look like more than it was.