Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Disstevefan1 said:
What happened? Did he not stick to the script? I apologize, I no idea about this.
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What he wrote was a bit goofy. Parts sounded like PR wrote it for him. And that was enough for the vultures to mercilessly mock him online as their punching bag for everything they were angry with Disney about.

You *don't* publicly say good things about what I hate!! How dare you!!!!

The Disney Blogs do it all the time, but with Zach, they had a target to respond to.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure he did not write the posts...or I hope not anyway. Surely there is something he could have posted about other than flooring and fresh paint.
or really maybe not... There is still a lot we don't know about the final look of the hub, the Communicore Hall building, how guest flow is going to work, if there will be any water features... There should have been much to talk about. It was a bad decision to talk about tile and concrete...
Really, what people were most annoyed about was not hearing anything as they tear down a large portion of the front of the park with only a sketchy plan... If TWDC had allowed him he might have been able to explain some of the finer points, let us in on the actual vision...not just a bunch of inconsequential details and word salad as his posts mostly were. and again, I feel like the posts were just pre-written press releases....when they had nothing better to say...
 
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HauntedPirate

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Bocabear said:
I am pretty sure he did not write the posts...or I hope not anyway. Surely there is something he could have posted about other than flooring and fresh paint.
or really maybe not... There is still a lot we don't know about the final look of the hub, the Communicore Hall building, how guest flow is going to work, if there will be any water features... There should have been much to talk about. It was a bad decision to talk about tile and concrete...
Really, what people were most annoyed about was not hearing anything as they tear down a large portion of the front of the park with only a sketchy plan... If TWDC had allowed him he might have been able to explain some of the finer points, let us in on the actual vision...not just a bunch of inconsequential details and word salad as his posts mostly were. and again, I feel like the posts were just pre-written press releases....when they had nothing better to say...
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In hindsight, it came off as someone had an idea to show off "backstage secrets", thinking they were going to come off as really cool, with PR writing the scripts for the social media posts.
 
J

jinx8402

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I believe his posts were written, or at least edited by PR/marketing. I recall there was one post where he forgot to remove notes that were clearly from someone else.

Disney wanted their next Joe Rohde of an imagineer that talked bts and fed the marketing machine...but it felt forced and not organic. It's a shame, because it could be amazing content to see, but it just wasn't authentic.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
well, when "Amazing Content" in these cases was Terrazzo flooring or concrete paint, it was pretty much doomed to failure.
If he was walking us through the Moana computer Mock-up... or explaining the details of the Mary Poppins attraction, then it would have been great. The posts were justifiably mocked.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
The posts were justifiably mocked.
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The posts, sure. The person, eh. I still think that was in bad taste when one has to assume he barely had control of the content. That said, I suppose he got the generous end of the stick considering how normalized dumping on perfectly normal-looking people for wearing too many sweaters, donning trendy pants, and exhibiting male pattern baldness has become around here.
 
Rhinocerous

Rhinocerous

Premium Member
James Alucobond said:
The posts, sure. The person, eh. I still think that was in bad taste when one has to assume he barely had control of the content. That said, I suppose he got the generous end of the stick considering how normalized dumping on perfectly normal-looking people for wearing too many sweaters, donning trendy pants, and exhibiting male pattern baldness has become around here.
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These seem like very specific examples. Perhaps I am reading the wrong threads.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
The posts, sure. The person, eh. I still think that was in bad taste when one has to assume he barely had control of the content. That said, I suppose he got the generous end of the stick considering how normalized dumping on perfectly normal-looking people for wearing too many sweaters, donning trendy pants, and exhibiting male pattern baldness has become around here.
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Actually assuming "he barely had control of the content" is a kind thing considering what the content was... I did not see anyone attacking him personally or his looks, but I may have missed a post or two. When seeing his posts it was easy to imagine someone higher up and the PR department spending long hours looking for something to have a post about... I don't think anyone can say 'Wow those posts were so amazing and informative!" Possibly informative, but not what anyone wanted to see or know. Sadly I feel that there might have been some great things to do a post on, but for some reason he was not allowed to discuss them...Which I guess is good considering all of those things were cancelled or just quietly put on the backburner.
While I joked about the posts, I certainly would not wish The Zach any ill will. If he can keep going in that pressure cooker of a creative environment, kudos to him. As far as what we on the outside see though, Disney Imagineering needs to really start "imagineering" again and not just be contract interior designers.
 
EricsBiscuit

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
well, when "Amazing Content" in these cases was Terrazzo flooring or concrete paint, it was pretty much doomed to failure.
If he was walking us through the Moana computer Mock-up... or explaining the details of the Mary Poppins attraction, then it would have been great. The posts were justifiably mocked.
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Woah woah woah, terrazzo flooring is pretty awesome content IMO
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
The posts, sure. The person, eh. I still think that was in bad taste when one has to assume he barely had control of the content. That said, I suppose he got the generous end of the stick considering how normalized dumping on perfectly normal-looking people for wearing too many sweaters, donning trendy pants, and exhibiting male pattern baldness has become around here.
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Yes, it seemed a lot like bullying to me. People ultimately got what they wanted, though. I suspect part of the lesson for Disney is not to personalise their PR with new handpicked Imagineers who will almost certainly have to deal with being relentlessly mocked online.
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff said:
Yes, it seemed a lot like bullying to me. People ultimately got what they wanted, though. I suspect part of the lesson for Disney is not to personalise their PR with new handpicked Imagineers who will almost certainly have to deal with being relentlessly mocked online.
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Geez, I missed all this. I don't even know who this guy is/was. If he was discussing terrazzo floors though instead of new rides and attractions, well, he should have asked for a Kevlar vest from HR before he started that sort of "communication" with Disney fans.

But this thought does occur to me... Disney could avoid all that heartache by actually building new rides and attractions that wow people, especially because they have four theme parks in WDW that are in desperate need of ride capacity and have been for two decades. If they actually built some impressive new rides and shows, they wouldn't have to make some innocent WDI kid talk about terrazzo flooring.
 
HauntedPirate

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
TP2000 said:
Geez, I missed all this. I don't even know who this guy is/was. If he was discussing terrazzo floors though instead of new rides and attractions, well, he should have asked for a Kevlar vest from HR before he started that sort of "communication" with Disney fans.

But this thought does occur to me... Disney could avoid all that heartache by actually building new rides and attractions that wow people, especially because they have four theme parks in WDW that are in desperate need of ride capacity and have been for two decades. If they actually built some impressive new rides and shows, they wouldn't have to make some innocent WDI kid talk about terrazzo flooring.
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Zach was the alleged-creative lead for the Epcot re-do. Wore an authentic retro reprint t-shirt for EPCOT Center at an event one time and people thusly claimed "He understands what EPCOT Center was all about, this project will be great!!!". Had a series of Instagram posts about "backstage WDI secrets" that ended up being about concrete, flooring choices for Club Cool, etc. He also re-did the clown pool at Boardwalk and (in)famously posted a picture of the Keister Coaster, but it was misspelled as "kiester". A few days later it was corrected after much mocking online.

Hey, they spent $400+ million on Guardians and I forget how much to shoehorn Rat in behind France. Harmodious. Construction walls for years. A misplaced Moana water thing. LOOK AT ALL THEY'VE GIVEN US!!! Several people have proclaimed this version of Epcot to be the bestest one ever, what more do you want?!?!
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
If the Terrazzo post and concrete posts had come along with some real information that everyone was clamoring for, it would not have been received so poorly... Problem is when you have a fan base that is very connected to the parks, and you tear down the front half of the park, people want to know what is happening, they want positive information, imagery, they want to be wowed by what is coming... Not new paint and floor samples... It is not a difficult concept to understand... Now if all you have to discuss is terrazzo and concrete textures, then there are bigger problems... which is what we have gotten, and why the response was what it was.
I am sure Zach is a nice guy. I don't feel that he is personally responsible for the gaffes of this park reimagining...or at least I hope not.
Connections turned out beautiful in that sort of Airport food court way. definitely nicer than what it replaced. The store is a store... the Club Cool feels like a downgrade into something that can quickly be repurposed. I think most of us were hoping that when they started this ambitious project that we would be getting some amazing unique design...
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
If the Terrazzo post and concrete posts had come along with some real information that everyone was clamoring for, it would not have been received so poorly... Problem is when you have a fan base that is very connected to the parks, and you tear down the front half of the park, people want to know what is happening, they want positive information, imagery, they want to be wowed by what is coming... Not new paint and floor samples... It is not a difficult concept to understand... Now if all you have to discuss is terrazzo and concrete textures, then there are bigger problems... which is what we have gotten, and why the response was what it was.
I am sure Zach is a nice guy. I don't feel that he is personally responsible for the gaffes of this park reimagining...or at least I hope not.
Connections turned out beautiful in that sort of Airport food court way. definitely nicer than what it replaced. The store is a store... the Club Cool feels like a downgrade into something that can quickly be repurposed. I think most of us were hoping that when they started this ambitious project that we would be getting some amazing unique design...
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Thank you so much for posting here. Your posts are always sincere and reasonable.

You bring up I think the strongest points.

I mean four years into this and besides Guardians and Rat which are rides in themselves new, we can say the only other things, and the actual EPCOT-ness of it are...more cleanly designed store and cafe.

The revamped EPCOT idea was kind of pointless to market and hype at this point.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
The revamped EPCOT idea was kind of pointless to market and hype at this point.
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I disagree that it was pointless. A revamp of the entire hub was desperately needed. It had become legitimately embarrassing. That said, there is little argument that the way they went about it was wasteful, unfocused, inconsistent, and organizationally puzzling. We’ll probably be stuck with a lot of weird choices for a long time because of what was done, but I will still probably enjoy the new hub more than the previous one.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
I disagree that it was pointless. A revamp of the entire hub was desperately needed. It had become legitimately embarrassing. That said, there is little argument that the way they went about it was wasteful, unfocused, inconsistent, and organizationally puzzling. We’ll probably be stuck with a lot of weird choices for a long time because of what was done, but I will still probably enjoy the new hub more than the previous one.
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And that is fine that it has its perks for you. I never said the changes were pointless.

What I did post that the revamp was pointless to market. Four years ago they had a large scale announcement about the revamp of the park.
 

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