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John Lasseter Visits Imagination Pavilion
- Thread starter DocMcHulk
- Start date
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
I don't really understand your point. I know why Figment and Dreamfinder were created, as I'm sure a lot of others here do, and I think I've mentioned it myself a couple of times.
Why does Mickey Mouse affect Figment and Dreamfinder? What does Mickey have to do with the role Figment and Dreamfinder play in Journey into Imagination being diminished or removed entirely? I'm well aware that guests want to see well-known Disney characters when they go to a Disney theme park but what does that have to do with Imagination? Why can't all of those characters be in Epcot? I'm not saying remove other Disney characters from Epcot if that's what you think (again I'm not really sure I understand the point you're making here) but I don't see why Figment and Dreamfinder couldn't receive a little more exposure alongside Mickey and the other classic characters.
Well I can only really speak for myself and express my own opinion so yes, it would be "nice" for me to see those characters return. Did I say it would be nice for everyone or that everyone would love it? No I didn't. Imagination as it is today is a negative, especially to those of us who remember it as it used to be.
awoogala
Well-Known Member
you couldn't find one with a mustache?The new Dreamfinder, come with me if you want your imagination to live!
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
Lasseter is old news. It's all about James Cameron now
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
One of the things that made the original Imagination so great was that the characters WERE original and exclusive to the ride. They didn't rely on nostalgia to draw people in, it's a completely self contained original experience and has everything you need to know about them. It develops original characters Dreamfinder and Figment into memorable and charming characters in their own right. They became the mascots of Epcot and I can most definitely say people loved them then and still remember them fondly despite what has been done to the ride. As a kid when I first rode it, I never once thought "this ride would be so much better if Mickey was in it or someone I knew, it bugs me that I've never seen these people before". Never saw them before but I never cared or was bothered by their newness. I was too busy being captivated by the colorful and wonderful new characters and scenes. True ingenuity.
Every character has to start from somewhere. Did people get all bent out of shape when they first saw Mickey Mouse in the 1920's just because they'd never seen him before? Nope. They embraced him as a completely new and original character.
Every character has to start from somewhere. Did people get all bent out of shape when they first saw Mickey Mouse in the 1920's just because they'd never seen him before? Nope. They embraced him as a completely new and original character.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
No I really don't think I am. I've expressed my opinion that I would like to see Dreamfinder return to Imagination and for the ride to return to the quality it used to have. Others have different opinions which I don't have a problem with. From what I've read on this forum and others regarding people's thoughts and opinions on Imagination, I think there are others, including members of this forum, who share my opinion but I'm not speaking for them, I can only speak for myself.
That's your opinion which is fine and perfectly understandable. I have no problem with an opinion that doesn't match my own, it's fun to debate them and talk about how they differ.
Where have I, or anyone else, tried to make you change your opinion? You and I have different ones which we've debated but I've never once said you should change your opinion or tried to force that. On the contrary I have said that I, as a fan of Pixar, understand your viewpoint about the hypothetical Pixar overlay but that, personally, I would rather Imagination be updated with Dreamfinder returned.
Again, I've never said that the ride or characters shouldn't be removed simply because they are "unique", though I think effort should be made to retain those things, not simply because of nostalgia but because some of them are very entertaining and remain great fun. I think it makes it more of a shame when they are removed because it's disappointing to lose all traces of a ride or character that you like but I haven't said they shouldn't be removed simply because they're unique; I'd like to see those attractions and characters that are unique be retained, as I have said, but I accepted long ago that commodities like that do disappear from time to time. Figment and Dreamfinder have other qualities beside uniqueness that have made me like and remember them as fondly for as long as I have.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
If you want me to elucidate, I will:
1. Mickey Mouse wasn't supposed to show up in Epcot, as others and you know. Figment was the mascot, Dreamfinder was part of the duo and would walk around Epcot with Figment. It was a different type of park. Actually, DCA when it opened wasn't supposed to have Disney characters either.
2. Well, of course what happened in both parks is that guests wanted to see the classic Disney characters. Mickey & friends now make appearances at both DCA and Epcot.
3. You may think this has nothing to do with Fig & DreamFinder, but they basically got sidelined. And remember that while Fig & DF were the original Epcot mascots, it was the ride that explained their presence and purpose. So, when they lost the job of mascots, defining who they were wasn't as important.
I know, I know what you will say, Fig & Dreamfinder are bigger than just being mascots! They need to be defined for who they are . . . or something like that.
I'm just telling you what happened, and mostly likely why in the eyes of Disney putting DF in Imagination is no longer needed as he isn't integral to the Epcot experience anymore.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
I really don't want to offend you, but I also feel I'm within my rights to state my opinions:
I think that having DreamFinder in Imagination would now be a small net negative. He looks dated, and Disney would be giving exposure to a character that, sorry to say, has no future. Unless, of course, they decide to do a film, a book, . . . anything else. You might think that Disney has "room" to promote different things at Epcot, I don't know about that. Obviously, the first goal is make Imagination a fun ride, not figure out first and foremost how to pay tribute to a former character that no longer plays a big role for the park.
Imagination could be improved upon, and probably will be, but I don't necessarily think that the return of the vintage 1980's DreamFinder would be the answer.
I think they could make a more modern DreamFinder, one who does things other than sing and act goofy as a loon. And, of course, they could use Figment.
Figment is great, but he doesn't have street cred when you look at characters like Mickey Mouse, and even classic Pixar characters who proved that they could entertain based on their personality alone. Remember, Figment had a new theme park and a ride to prop him up. Would a "Figment Show" be popular? Possibly, but likely we'll never know.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
1. Yep I know that.
2. I'm aware of that too.
3. Makes sense, although I still don't see why Figment and Dreamfinder couldn't, hypothetically, co-exist in the park with the classic Disney characters. That's just something we'll have to agree to disagree about.
I'm not saying anything, you've expressed your opinion, I've expressed mine. There's no right or wrong opinion at the end of the day.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
It is true that Figment is still in the ride, and maybe DreamFinder has a bigger following that I realize. Who knows why Disney does anything? If I believe that they made a collossal mistake taking out CBJ in DL, then I guess I could see how they could mess up Imagination. I guess I've just tried to heal my wounds by believing that the company makes good logical decisions when it comes to taking stuff out.
It would be cool if Figment made a cameo in that upcoming Pixar film, likes walks through the girl's mind in the background or something.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
I'm not offended and you are more than within your rights to state your opinions, I've never said otherwise.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying bring back a carbon copy of the Imagination that I enjoyed all those years ago. I think I said early on that if it were to be brought back (speaking hypothetically), it should be updated and brought into the 21st century, as should the character of the Dreamfinder though not in a way that would detract from the original qualities of his character. The priority should be to make Imagination a fun ride, I absolutely agree with that, and it shouldn't just be a homage to the characters. There's a balance to be found there if Disney so wished, though it's highly unlikely they ever will.
Figment, as a character, has the characteristics to base a ride upon, especially one like Imagination; the ride is known today as Jouney into Imagination with Figment so Disney obviously see him as something of a draw, not on the scale of Mickey or the Pixar characters, but enough of one to put his name in the ride and trust that guests recognise the character. Whatever happens, I'm not counting on ever seeing Dreamfinder return but I do believe Figment should remain the cornerstone of Imagination if it were to ever receive some kind of overhaul but nothing is imminent as far as I know so we'll all just have to wait and see what happens with Imagination going forward.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
I do follow your point however it doesn't follow the Epcot/Disney pattern. Enter Duffy. Not well defined, not a classic, doesn't really have a purpose other that "Caching."
flynnibus
Premium Member
funny.. I was just about to say the same thing about your posts...
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
You absolutely have the right to have your own opinion and for you it is correct. Those of us that saw the creation of DF and Figment know that at the time they were important Disney characters. Maybe not classic Disney Characters, but as someone mentioned every one of them started somewhere.
They were BIG back then. They were recognized back then, but if you get put away in a closet for 25 years you will find it hard to find someone to notice you as well. Good grief...Mickey is 70 years old. Tell me how he is still relevant? Never mind, I'll tell you...because he has continued to have constant exposure. Had they not pulled DF and Figment out of the ride...they would still be popular. Figment now is a smart mouthed, prankster. The kind of personality one would like to spank. He was never that way to begin with. He was an innocent character excited by his new found ability to create through his imagination. He was polite and happy and upbeat in a positive way, not in a juvenile delinquent way. Heck the Figment character that you see in the ride is even smaller physically then the original, I would assume to downplay his stature. And he was only reintroduced because of the outpouring of angst that the public was displaying. They wanted Dreamfinder as well...but the powers that be said no, we will give you a downsized Figment back, but the team was broken up and that is all she wrote. Dreamfinder is an extinct character and will not be resurrected in this lifetime. So you win. He's gone.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
The Duffy story is interesting, and bares some parallels with Fig/DF,
"Although originally created for and briefly sold at the Disney World Once Upon a Toy shop in Orlando in 2002, Duffy only became popular after Oriental Land executives adopted the character, gave it a name and a backstory, and aggressively marketed it in the Tokyo DisneySea park. Japanese fans took to it and some of them started to carry around multiple Duffy plush bears during their visits to the park. The My Friend Duffy show replaced a Donald Duck-themed show at the American Waterfront Cape Cod Cook-Off hamburger restaurant in 2010."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duffy_the_Disney_Bear
Duffy was aggressively marketed by TDT, and fans responded. And for probably a lot of different reasons, Duffy is now in multiple parks,
"Duffy the Disney Bear joined American Disney parks on October 14, 2010. He was welcomed at Epcot in Walt Disney World and Disney California Adventure Park at the Disneyland Resort.[1] He then joined Hong Kong Disneyland Resort on November 19, 2010. He was welcomed at Main Street, U.S.A. in Hong Kong Disneyland Park.[2] He joined Disneyland Paris on June 2011. He will make his official debut in Disneyland Paris at the Disneyland Park on November 7, 2011 for their Christmas season. He will have his own Meet-and-Greet area and photolocation in Town Square. He will also have a Meet-and-Greet location at the Disneyland Hotel and at the Disney's Newport Bay Club Hotel. He will participate in the daily daytime Parade "Disney's Once Upon a Dream Parade" in the Christmas unit "Dreams of Christmas". He will also be at the daily nighttime Show "Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony."
And Duffy is on the small screen,
"Duffy is unique among Disney characters in that he was not first featured in a Disney movie or television show until he made his television debut in the 2010 Disney Parks Christmas Day Parade. He also is on his own Bedtime Story Channel in Walt Disney World."
Some reasons why Figment/DF didn't take off when compared to Duffy:
1. Teddy bears are inherently cute. I can see guests in Tokyo taking Duffy with them everywhere, I kind of doubt this would have happened with Figment as he is more reptillian, IMHO.
2. TDO didn't aggressively market Fig/DF, or give them a backstory. We can argue why this didn't happen, (or why it should have), but given the amount of time Fig/DF were in Epcot, maybe fan reaction wasn't very strong. Pure speculation on my part, certainly there are diehard fans, but I talking about total numbers.
3. Duffy is linked to Mickey Mouse being his bear and having "hidden" Mickeys incorporated into his body. So, not so "original" perhaps as Fig/DF.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
I may have missed an early post regarding making Imagination vintage 1980's.
But given that TDO, Burbank, whoever, will likely never aggressively market Figment like Duffy, and given that the Pixar movie about the thoughts inside of a girl's head will get tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions in promotions . . . not sure that from a corporate standpoint they could justify not letting the Pixar characters take center stage at Imagination, should they choose that route for a major reboot of the ride.
Personally I like Figment, but what if you saw Pixar's new film and some of the characters were really awesome. Like what if they had a character that was "Imagination", and was interesting, but they couldn't have both Figment and the new Imagination character in the ride?
Obviously, TDO underestimated Figment's appeal as they brought him back. That's shows they do "care" about guests feelings, in so much as they probably got a lot of nasty feedback about the changes. I think after seeing Carsland I'm much more open to new things, and Pixar projects. Before I might have said please keep Figment and the song, but now the possibility of a totally new ride really excites me.
I would say that a Figment homage like the 20K sub-in-cement at Mermaid could potentially be kinda sad, but if the new ride is awesome, I could move on.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Well, its not about me "winning", I sure didn't make the decision.
I remember Figment very well having visited WDW many times over the years. Old Figment was more excited with his new found abilities and is a prankster now. True.
But even so, you are assuming that Figment has the same potential as Mickey Mouse to be a classic character, all that needs to happen is a big shot somewhere needs to decide to "promote" him. Well, easier said than done, you can't just put Figment dolls everywhere and expect people to buy him. Folks in DLR probably wouldn't as west coast folks have had less exposure in a single ride. To even get a shot to be as popular as Mickey you need decades of "exposure" and dozens, and dozens of cartoons. We know who Mickey is, Figment not so sure.
If they made a Figment movie, and the public responded well, maybe Figment could develop a following.
But from a narrative standpoint, Fig/DF are weak, IMHO. Where does DF live? Figment is magically created, right?, by DF. So, does that mean there aren't anymore Figments? And where does Journey Into Imagination happen? Inside somebody's mind? Pixar is sort of making this film, but without the constraints of relying on DF/Fig.
So, from a storytelling standpoint, Figment/DF's slim backstory basically serve to explain a ride, not to build further interest in themselves as characters.
ellie-badge
Well-Known Member
My feelings about the derailment of this thread:
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
This thread has made me so sad!
I remember the original JiI! I remember before it opened, Disney officials bragged "It will be the Fantasyland of EPCOT Center!"
It surely was. It was a good LONG dark ride with a catchy tune: "Imaaaaaginaaaation... Imaaaaaaagination... A dream come true... It's right for you..." (With words I can't remember and left out)
But it broke down all the time. It never worked right whenever my family went. I always got to go on it, but after being kicked out of line and told to come back an hour later, or sitting on the ride stuck in a scene for a hour and listening to its sound track loop over and over again and hearing a cast member make repeated PA announcements telling everyone they are having technical difficulties and to please stay in the vehicles as the ride should be started back up again soon.
If breakdown happened regularly and frequently, I can see why upper management was so eager to shut it down the "headache".
I also remember Horizons. So sad. I love MS, but I really miss Horizons. I was told Horizons also had breakdown problems.
No ride since Horizons has created a total immersive experience like Horizons did. The next best thing is Back to the Future at Universal with its IMAX screen. Horizons used something better than IMAX - the OmniMax screen, a screen that curved around the sides as well as curved as a half-dome on top, covering the entire field of site. Coupled with the OmniMax, it also used the Omnimover ride vehicle, making it even more immersive.
A never-built ride was going to be the original Space pavilion that would have used OmniMax screens and Omnimover vehicles, like Horizons did, for a total-immersive outer space experience that would have been truly awesome!
And so sad the original World of Motion is gone to. I love Test Track and I'm sure Test Track 2.0 will be yet better, but the original World of Motion was a long dark ride, similar to Space Ship Earth, but was actually very funny, as it was created by the same person who designed PotC.
So sad that EPCOT no longer has the glory it once had... So, so sad! I almost want to cry!
I remember the original JiI! I remember before it opened, Disney officials bragged "It will be the Fantasyland of EPCOT Center!"
It surely was. It was a good LONG dark ride with a catchy tune: "Imaaaaaginaaaation... Imaaaaaaagination... A dream come true... It's right for you..." (With words I can't remember and left out)
But it broke down all the time. It never worked right whenever my family went. I always got to go on it, but after being kicked out of line and told to come back an hour later, or sitting on the ride stuck in a scene for a hour and listening to its sound track loop over and over again and hearing a cast member make repeated PA announcements telling everyone they are having technical difficulties and to please stay in the vehicles as the ride should be started back up again soon.
If breakdown happened regularly and frequently, I can see why upper management was so eager to shut it down the "headache".
I also remember Horizons. So sad. I love MS, but I really miss Horizons. I was told Horizons also had breakdown problems.
No ride since Horizons has created a total immersive experience like Horizons did. The next best thing is Back to the Future at Universal with its IMAX screen. Horizons used something better than IMAX - the OmniMax screen, a screen that curved around the sides as well as curved as a half-dome on top, covering the entire field of site. Coupled with the OmniMax, it also used the Omnimover ride vehicle, making it even more immersive.
A never-built ride was going to be the original Space pavilion that would have used OmniMax screens and Omnimover vehicles, like Horizons did, for a total-immersive outer space experience that would have been truly awesome!
And so sad the original World of Motion is gone to. I love Test Track and I'm sure Test Track 2.0 will be yet better, but the original World of Motion was a long dark ride, similar to Space Ship Earth, but was actually very funny, as it was created by the same person who designed PotC.
So sad that EPCOT no longer has the glory it once had... So, so sad! I almost want to cry!