John Lasseter Visits Imagination Pavilion

[flynnibus]

Sadly for Dreamfinder fans, this is probably the case, especially since the vast majority of kids haven't heard of the Dreamfinder.

And no one had heard of him before EPCOT - and yet he still became popular. You keep going back to 'people don't know who he is' - thats not a requirement and proven by his very success for over a decade.

Folks blame Disney for using too many "franchises", but in reality, guests have always wanted to see visible characters in the park.

This is 'new' Disney thinking - that you should just pander to what the lay ask for.. because they seem to be incapable of setting the standard anymore and instead just give the mob what they ask for. You don't move forward by asking the middle what they want. Generally, they only know what they've already had.

Imagine if Disney didn't create the fab 5 but instead just gave people more of what they already knew...

 

[JEANYLASER]

agreed! I love Dreamfinder and Figment they will be missed and so do I! A biggest fan of Dreamfinder and Figment!

 

[muteki]

And no one had heard of him before EPCOT - and yet he still became popular. You keep going back to 'people don't know who he is' - thats not a requirement and proven by his very success for over a decade.

This is 'new' Disney thinking - that you should just pander to what the lay ask for.. because they seem to be incapable of setting the standard anymore and instead just give the mob what they ask for. You don't move forward by asking the middle what they want. Generally, they only know what they've already had.

Imagine if Disney didn't create the fab 5 but instead just gave people more of what they already knew...

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I and I am sure many others may wish they didn't make decisions like they do, but from what I have seen recently that is how it goes. There was a time when they could invent something out of the blue and have it be a magnificent hit on it's own merits, franchise or not. And they certainly could do that again. But they need to be a little less adverse to risk and really aim for something spectacular.

 

[FrankLapidus]

I think most people would say that this phrase, "stands the test of time" is not being correctly used, and that may be the confusion.

Like I said to Muteki, maybe I've used the phrase in a different context to the way you're using it. Perhaps you're right and I'm wrong but I do believe Dreamfinder has stood the test of time.

Folks blame Disney for using too many "franchises", but in reality, guests have always wanted to see visible characters in the park. Tinker Bell was associated with the Disneyland show, and guests thought they would get to see Tinker Bell in the park. They got upset that Tink wasn't a walk around character, so Disney had to hire somebody to dress up as Tinker Bell.

Ok but I don't see what this has to do with Imagination. Unless I've missed something, there has been no suggestion that the ride is actually being rethemed to a film-related overlay. The ride doesn't need to be rethemed or "franchised", it needs to be improved and returned to something resembling the ride that is still loved.

But sadly, when CBJ closed there weren't 50,000 APers immediately protesting the next day in front of Disneyland. I think there was a small amount of excitement that Pooh was coming. I really hate Pooh, but I realize that Disneyland needed this ride, though sadly the Pooh DLR got is third rate even when compared to MK.

Fair point and a good example. The difference is CBJ at Disneyland was removed to make way for something; Imagination was ruined and Dreamfinder removed for no apparent reason other than to seemingly diminish the ride's quality. Whether it was right to remove CBJ is a separate argument, but you're saying here that one of your favourite rides was removed to make way for a popular franchise so you can understand why some of us don't want the same to happen to Imagination, whether it's a Pixar-inspired attraction or not. Imagination is unique to WDW, Figment is unique to Epcot, they should be treated as such and showcased to a much higher quality than they are now. I love Pixar myself, I really do, but I've seen insiders say over the past couple of days that there's a possibility of a Ratatouille ride being brought to World Showcase. If that were to happen, with Ratatouille and Nemo, Epcot would already have a pretty strong Pixar presence. I'm not against Pixar being at WDW or the other theme parks in the slightest but I also want to see memorable and unique attractions, like Imagination, remain where they are and properly maintained.

I honestly don't think anybody is wringing their hands at Disney thinking what horrible mistake it was to remove Dreamfinder, or CBJ from Disneyland, sadly.

This I agree with. And it disappoints me to know that this is the case.

 

[FrankLapidus]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I and I am sure many others may wish they didn't make decisions like they do, but from what I have seen recently that is how it goes. There was a time when they could invent something out of the blue and have it be a magnificent hit on it's own merits, franchise or not. And they certainly could do that again. But they need to be a little less adverse to risk and really aim for something spectacular.

Exactly, both you and flynnibus have hit the nail square on the head.

 

[Clever Name]

They are not going to bring back Dreamfinder.

 

[FrankLapidus]

They are not going to bring back Dreamfinder.

I know, no one said they are. But if Disney were to ever decide to refurb Imagination amd return it to the quality it once had, it would be nice to see Figment and Dreamfinder play a part.

 

[Goofnut1980]

I think it is funny that they do not have the imagination pavillion open like it once was. It was one of the big places in Epcot for kids. Everyone comments how there isn't a lot for the little ones. That was a place that children could create and explore. It would be great to see them take the 100 million they saved with Avitarland and use it for Epcot!

UoE could use a few mill to make it sparkle.

 

[JEANYLASER]

I hope Disney Bring Back Dreamfinder and Figment!

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I could give a poached egg if they bring back Beardy Man and Purple Dragon. They have no connection to me or my off spring, and lets face it what I want counts.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I and I am sure many others may wish they didn't make decisions like they do, but from what I have seen recently that is how it goes. There was a time when they could invent something out of the blue and have it be a magnificent hit on it's own merits, franchise or not. And they certainly could do that again. But they need to be a little less adverse to risk and really aim for something spectacular.

Some recent examples of non-franchise work:

1. Buena Vista Street, which includes the Red Car Trolley.
2. Mystic Manor
3. Grizzly Gulch

And a little bit further back you have Expedition Everest.

Of course, franchise based attractions have been some of, if not the most successful recent projects:

1. Carsland. Probably the biggest hit Disney has had in the states since Indy, don't see anything out shining this for many years.
2. BoG restaurant. I don't see guests urinating on the bridge screaming, "Why on earth can't you give me a generic castle with generic dragons or beasts or something! It would have been great!"

And don't forget the Ratatouille dark ride.

Generic stuff can be *awful*. You see it all the time at the smaller theme parks, and look at the generic Paradise Pier stuff, awful . . . and then they tried to plaster Mickey on it.

Maybe it is the money spent, versus the franchise vs. generic issue.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I know, no one said they are. But if Disney were to ever decide to refurb Imagination amd return it to the quality it once had, it would be nice to see Figment and Dreamfinder play a part.

If they had used Dreamfinder for Epcot advertising, then I think folks would recognize him. Figment, and to a lesser extent, Dreamfinder, were created to be Epcot's mascot. It was supposed to be whole different park, no Mickey Mouse.

It wasn't that somebody realized that Mickey has many decades start on Dreamfinder, and that Dreamfinder hasn't starred in dozens of shorts. But rather that the fans wanted to see Mickey Mouse. So, they use Mickey, and other Disney characters. You have to realize that many, if not most, guests want to see well-known Disney characters when going to a Disney theme park.

Yeah, Figment is cute, and if you ride JiI hundreds of times, you might develop and emotional connection, but for most guests who go to Epcot once, or a couple times, they never connected with either character enough to demand, or even care, if they were still in Imagination, IMHO.

So it might be "nice" for you if they brought back Figment/Dreamfinder, but for the non-fans, and those who think Dreamfinder is dated and a little too silly, it would be a negative, IMHO. Especially a negative if they could build an Imagination ride that is relevant to today's audience by incorporating characters from a Pixar film.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Like I said to Muteki, maybe I've used the phrase in a different context to the way you're using it. Perhaps you're right and I'm wrong but I do believe Dreamfinder has stood the test of time.

From the online Oxford dictionary,

"If something stands the test of time, it is still popular, strong, etc. after a long time"

For example, the Beatles have stood the test of time as their songs still sell on iTunes.

The Soviet Union did not stand the test of time.

 

[awoogala]

I know that with the fans, Dreamfinder and Figment are known entities, but I feel that Dreamfinder is sort of dated, in terms of the victorian style dress and big beard, he looks like Mr. Kangaroo's long lost brother who took one LSD trip too many during the 1970's.

Most Epcot probably wouldn't have a clue who this guy is . . . plus the old jumbled ride looks too Jewels Verne for "Future World", IMHO.

I don't think a ride needs a big budget film to be a success, but if the Pixar film has great characters and a good story, I can't see why that couldn't be used in a ride. Plus, a solid storyline is better than just singing about Imagination, IMHO, though I like the song, for a ride I want a little bit more story.



Figment was supposed to be Epcot's Mickey Mouse (they didn't want to use Mickey in Epcot as they wanted Epcot to have its own identity), but decades later we've got Mickey, Gaston, and a ton of other Disney/Pixar characters in Epcot.

actually, with the huge rise in steam punk fashion, he would be very on trend these days!

 

[muteki]

Some recent examples of non-franchise work:

1. Buena Vista Street, which includes the Red Car Trolley.
2. Mystic Manor
3. Grizzly Gulch

And a little bit further back you have Expedition Everest.

Of course, franchise based attractions have been some of, if not the most successful recent projects:

1. Carsland. Probably the biggest hit Disney has had in the states since Indy, don't see anything out shining this for many years.
2. BoG restaurant. I don't see guests urinating on the bridge screaming, "Why on earth can't you give me a generic castle with generic dragons or beasts or something! It would have been great!"

And don't forget the Ratatouille dark ride.

Generic stuff can be *awful*. You see it all the time at the smaller theme parks, and look at the generic Paradise Pier stuff, awful . . . and then they tried to plaster Mickey on it.

Maybe it is the money spent, versus the franchise vs. generic issue.

It's always going to come down to the money, no matter what. People love Figment like crazy but the current incarnation of the ride screams cheap. There just isn't a lot there.

There is a difference between "generic" and "original" as well.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The difference is CBJ at Disneyland was removed to make way for something; Imagination was ruined and Dreamfinder removed for no apparent reason other than to seemingly diminish the ride's quality. Whether it was right to remove CBJ is a separate argument, but you're saying here that one of your favourite rides was removed to make way for a popular franchise so you can understand why some of us don't want the same to happen to Imagination, whether it's a Pixar-inspired attraction or not. Imagination is unique to WDW, Figment is unique to Epcot, they should be treated as such and showcased to a much higher quality than they are now.

I think your translating your personal opinions as being those of the majority, when sadly for fans of unique attractions, this often isn't the case.

I like the new JiL much better than Pooh in Disneyland. So I could say that the Imagination ride in Epcot was changed to make way for an interesting ride, which recycled the best part of Dreamfinder/Figment . . . which was Figment and the song. While of course, CBJ was destroyed for no reason to put in a ride of greatly diminished quality.

This is actually what I think.

I understand why some of you want Dreamfinder back, I don't. And arguing with me, or others, won't change that opinion as it is an opinion of taste.

Just because Imagination and Figment are "unique" doesn't mean they shouldn't be changed. Superstar Limo was unique to DCA, and I'm sure happy to have seen it ripped out.

 

[awoogala]

Exactly! As a child, I didn't need an elaborate backstory or built in movie tie in to figure out Dreamfinder. I could use my.... Imaaaaaaginaaation
That provided me all I needed to know and more about him.

my kids adored figment the second they saw him, at ages 3 and 7. They buy figment merchandise when we go to epcot. They like the ride, but when I showed it to them on YouTube with dream finder, they loved that even more, and asked submit was changed. It tells its own story, and kids aren't idiots, they can get it. They don't need a movie to spoon feed them the wonder of imagination.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It's always going to come down to the money, no matter what. People love Figment like crazy but the current incarnation of the ride screams cheap. There just isn't a lot there.

There is a difference between "generic" and "original" as well.

That's a problem that creative people, such as authors have. You start out writing an original story, yet you will inevitably fall back on generic characters and plots and you have to try to free yourself from dogma.

With attractions, IMHO, the problem is that WDI doesn't have a super big budget to create these elaborate characters, plus there isn't time to translate the backstory. You ride the Great Movie ride and you instantly "get" the Wizard of Oz scene. A generic scene, or "original" scene wouldn't have the same cultural meaning and would be read as generic.

Looks at Pirates, a boat ride with somewhat generic pirates, but tons of detail. I think detail matters the most.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

my kids adored figment the second they saw him, at ages 3 and 7. They buy figment merchandise when we go to epcot. They like the ride, but when I showed it to them on YouTube with dream finder, they loved that even more, and asked submit was changed. It tells its own story, and kids aren't idiots, they can get it. They don't need a movie to spoon feed them the wonder of imagination.

I totally believe you as I have a 5 year old who watches She-ra . . . a dated cartoon show made years (decades?) ago. She also loves old Scooby-Do cartoons, and childrens' shows made decades ago.

I don't think the problem is young kids, but the teenagers and adults who think Dreamfinder is a little "over the top", and perhaps boring.

 

[awoogala]

I totally believe you as I have a 5 year old who watches She-ra . . . a dated cartoon show made years (decades?) ago. She also loves old Scooby-Do cartoons, and childrens' shows made decades ago.

I don't think the problem is young kids, but the teenagers and adults who think Dreamfinder is a little "over the top", and perhaps boring.

ha. My kids loved she-ra, and Sigmund and the sea monster, Muppet show, fraggles, there are so many good old shows on DVD, thank goodness! Especially since my kids are not allowed to watch 90% of the drivel on the tv these days, including almost all of the Disney channel, sadly!