Jim Hill on XPass coming in 2012

[MickeyPeace]

Well you'd have to ask Disney that.

Disney doesn't have a problem with the CDs because unless you say they are a Disney product or feature Disney copyrighted material, they really can't say anything.

Disney owns the intellectual property rights. Right there anyone could be shut down if Disney wanted to do it.

 

[MaryJaneP]

XPass is a bad idea. It is further guest stratification. More of the $ buys magic thought process.

As to the "shaft" that "locals" get when they drop in for the day. How many days do those of us that have to plan years in advance just to spend one day in a park? Too bad the rest of us aren't local. Drop in for the day, really?

Talk about getting the "shaft". Let someone buy out the ride capacity and then we will see who is getting shafted, locals or long-distance tourists?

As for the parents with young kids. Been there, done that. But in today's world of immediate gratification, do we really want to encourage further impatience. I learned to wait in line as a kid. My kids learned the same thing.

Not every morning is Christmas morning. It wouldn't be as magical and special if every morning was. Sure, $ can buy gifts for every morning. But then what do you get?

There is value in developing a sense of excited anticipation. I can't wait until some kids whine that their parents were too cheap to buy XPass. It should take maybe 5 minutes on the first day. Maybe less.

1 vote for no pass.

 

[the-reason14]

So do we know for sure now that this cra..... I mean, 'thing' will be implemented. I'm one that's opposed to it, but it's not up to me obviously. Is this what we can expect to be at WDW next year and the years to come?

 

[puntagordabob]

As to the "shaft" that "locals" get when they drop in for the day. How many days do those of us that have to plan years in advance just to spend one day in a park? Too bad the rest of us aren't local. Drop in for the day, really?
.

Leave snowy Penn and move to Florida! :ROFLOL:

 

[WDW1974]

The flaw in that logic is that such things do happen. And quite frequently.
Jim's only fault that I can see in this regard is that he may sometimes spin some of his predictions with a little too much certainty.

Example: At one time, they were considering adding some scary elements to PotC. They would only come into effect at night, and the ride would transform into "Pirates of the Scareibbean". (This is nothing that anyone on a message board made up, but a real concept being bounced around.)
I believe I mentioned it at the time, and so did Jim if I remember correctly.
But...it didn't happen, for whatever reason.
Does that make the information any less accurate? No.
Does it mean anyone was lying? No.
When we say they decided against it, are we backtracking? No.

It means Disney decided against it. No fault of anyone's.

Exactly. Things change. 'Stuff' happens. Things that seem sure fire get shut down and other projects get moved from the trash heap based on politics.

Sometimes you get proper info and get out ahead of things (let's see off-hand I could point to my Jaws/Amity/Potter info ... my DVC at the GF info ... my projects getting shelved at WDW info) and it seems like you're a fly on the wall. Other times, you are right (as Jim was with the boutique animal park), but since it doesn't happen the fanbois attack.

FWIW, I have placed info about the selling off of Club 33 at DL and how it is tied into the new Carthay Circle project at DL both here and on Micechat and not ONE spirit has made a comment. Guess it doesn't matter since most fans don't get in there (although far too many have been Walmarting the place in the last 5-7 years largely through social networking hookups with club members, which has brought about lower quality).

It's not my job to defend Jim. To each his own, and all that.
Personally, I'd like to see a level playing field where nobody is allowed to give third-party tours, operate a business out of the parks, or profit from Disney's copyrights.
But that's just me....:shrug:

No, it's not you. It's many of us. Disney lovers and shareholders who understand the value of the BRAND and don't feel it's OK to leech off of Disney because you can't get a job in the real world (it's not like these podcasters/DVD makers/tour guides etc need the money to feed starving children ... they are doing it because its easier spending 300-plus days a year in a theme park than it is to actually have a real job).

But it is a very slippery slope when you start playing favorites and let some folks break company policies while you go after others for the exact same things.

What's wrong for one (and it is) is wrong for all.

 

[WDW1974]

This is very well said. People think we live in a black and white society right now when reality is somewhere in the middle. In all honesty, Jim Hill has a better track record over the last 5 years than Jay Rasulo. Nothing in the future is absolute. In September of 2009 we knew that 2012 would mean a chateau for Cinderella and Aurora in Walt Disney World. Jim reported on it, I discussed it, Lee discussed it and hundreds of others discussed it as well. Did we all collaborate on this fake information? No... things changed.

WDW1974 has hinted that he think the possibility exists that World of Avatar doesn't happen. My understanding of this is that because it's so far out and still technically early on in the design process that it's very easy for things to change.

Absolutely. I didn't put any money down last week in Vegas on the 'Avatar actually getting built at DAK' bet at the Encore!

Things change. ... Even well AFTER they get announced. Everything from WRE to some EPCOT pavilions to the DVC resort that was started on the site of Golden Oak prove that nothing is a done deal until things are done. Even the start of construction doesn't guarantee the completion of said project.

And I'm giving Avatar about 60/40 odds of actually being built and open by 2016-17.

To echo Lee's point - Jim is occasionally guilty of overstating where in the development process a project is. Something like the Monster's Inc Coaster wasn't something that he made up - concept art exists for it and it was uploaded to the cast member portal. That doesn't mean that the attraction was given the green light (although apparently it was close), it just means that it was far enough along in the design process that concept art exists.

People need to understand how to read rumors. If the source is trusted, you have to assume that the information is true at that time. That doesn't mean that things can't change, it just means that at the point of time when the rumor comes out, the rumor is true.

Very well said.

And the Monsters Coaster was a done deal in 2008. Prep work, including some early electrical had even been started and then the economy collapsed and TDO (with Burbank's approval) killed it.

 

[Summerland24]

I think we will just cancel our Nov. 2012 vacation. We had decided that once they start letting people book ride times from home, it's over!
We like to be spontaneous, we do not want to decide 6 months in advance where we MIGHT want to eat when we are on vacation, nor do we want to make reservations for rides. After all these years of going every year, sometimes twice, we noticed the food quality declining and prices just keep rising for less.

Good-Bye WDW, it was fun....

Wow, 0-88 MPH. Do you have a flux capacitor in your pocket?
I'm not going to get too worked up about this until it somehow is detrimental to my vacations. As discussed the Universal system has been in effect for awhile, I have never had a problem with it. Also as mentioned, there are many things like this at the world already. ie Fireworks, Illuminations cruises.
Any major vacation spot I have traveled to always has premium cost services available. Helicopter tours, private seating, concierge service, the list could go on.

Finally, another reason I'm not to worried. How many people miss their ride times with fast pass...??.. If this system is based around certain time intervals I can easily foresee many people missing ride times while waiting for other attractions.

 

[menamechris]

And the Monsters Coaster was a done deal in 2008. Prep work, including some early electrical had even been started and then the economy collapsed and TDO (with Burbank's approval) killed it.

If this is true - I am at a loss as to why this project hasn't been picked up again.

 

[WDW1974]

Disney owns the intellectual property rights. Right there anyone could be shut down if Disney wanted to do it.

IF Disney wanted.

Just read and repeat.

Disney shuts down who it wants to shut down. Others either fly under the radar (until someone with power in Burbank gets angry) ... or have some sort of underhanded deal where certain folks at Disney look the other way in exchange for unending positive coverage of the resort ... or are literally hanging by fingernails on a cliff. Just hoping no one steps on their fingers.
:xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

If this is true - I am at a loss as to why this project hasn't been picked up again.

Dunno, especially since it was a relatively cheap attraction (as are all coasters) and had the synergy of the upcoming Monsters University prequel to bounce off of.

But it died when things looked like we were headed for total economic collapse ... people don't realize that if Disney hadn't of approved and financed the DCA Extreme Makeover 4-5 months earlier, we'd probably still have the giant letters out front and the giant hubcap in Sunshine Plaza because Iger and the BoD would NEVER have pulled the trigger on that project at that point.

 

[Mike730]

And the Monsters Coaster was a done deal in 2008. Prep work, including some early electrical had even been started and then the economy collapsed and TDO (with Burbank's approval) killed it.

Where was this going? In the supposedly empty soundstage next to Toy Story Midway Mania?

 

[AEfx]

Disney owns the intellectual property rights. Right there anyone could be shut down if Disney wanted to do it.

No, they can't.

They are recordings of someone talking about a theme park. There are no copyrighted materials included, no Disney music, they are not actually recordings of anything but a voice.

"Turn left, and you will see Splash Mountain. It was opened in 1992, three years after it's sister attraction was built at Disneyland."

You cannot copyright facts. The CDs in question are guided walking tours, not recordings of rides. Disney cannot do anything about them, any more than they can stop Testa and crew from making "Unofficial Guide".

Are you having fun following me around attempting to correct my posts? Try harder.

 

[AEfx]

People need to understand how to read rumors. If the source is trusted, you have to assume that the information is true at that time. That doesn't mean that things can't change, it just means that at the point of time when the rumor comes out, the rumor is true.

The problem with Hill is that he almost never writes anything that any one of us could cull together just from being a regular here.

Once in awhile when he does seem to have a tiny tidbit, he turns it into "article" that he pulls straight from his derriere. Lots of non-declarative statements, wishy-washy inferences to it's perceived importance, etc., and when you get to the end you wonder, "Uh, what the heck was the insider information supposedly there?"

The other problem is that his personality, well, sucks. He seems rather mean-spirited, and has proven over and over he is simply out to try to buff up his own image. I'll give you an example.

He recently recycled the well-known anecdote of Eisner and the Tweedle-twins. In it, he used some rather offensive terms to the developmentally disabled. I was quite shocked when I read it that he didn't know any better.

In the comments, someone pointed this out, and instead of apologizing and correcting the article, he LAID INTO them, crying knee-jerk "oh the world is too PC" stuff. Saying how it should be obvious that he was quoting Eisner when using the word (repeatedly) and said it was OK because of that. I mean, his rant against this person was longer than the dang article (and full of anger and vitriol).

Thing is, if he was quoting Eisner, he needs to brush up on some journalistic style of how to quote sources, because he made several references to this word without quotes, and that were no where near an actual quote. He was backtracking, because other sycophantic (and ignorant) commenters were rallying him on.

But again, instead of saying, "I may have been wrong," or even, "It wasn't my intention to offend, so I have edited the offensive references from the article that were not clearly quotes," he instead just bashed the commenter down and sounded like he enjoyed it.

There is a reason he is so disliked. Lots of them, actually. He's not someone I would choose to be in bed with, but if you are - it's your decision. But after awhile, I hope you see that it's not like he has not earned his reputation - it's not just that everyone seems to misunderstand him, or what a rumor is.

It's that he is all about self-promotion, and not even very good at that - as at least the other bloggers/etc. that try to ride Disney's coattails actually write books and publish them and produce...something. Hill has such a long list of unfinished projects he is seemingly incapable of finishing it's astounding. I'd actually feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a terrible person in the first place.

 

[WDW1974]

Where was this going? In the supposedly empty soundstage next to Toy Story Midway Mania?

Yes ... but expanded as well as the footprint wasn't large enough.

 

[bugsbunny]

The people are so fickle here. When Disney talked about building a boutique park, the AK VIP tour, more overpriced DVC offerings, selling property to build multimillion dollar homes, and RFID tags in mugs to stop guests from stealing soda; I get crucified as someone who hates. I've pointed over and over how Disney is catering to the "disposable income" crowd as if there is no hint of a bad economy. As others are now pointing out, why not spend more resources on improvements rather than fleecing the upper class?

The only things I can think of that even remotely pertain to the "value" crowd in recent memory is the RFID rag tags in the mugs at the Values and the new Animation sites which a re anything but a value. Two rooms would be cheaper than those half a$$ed suites, so why bother?

 

[RSoxNo1]

The problem with Hill is that he almost never writes anything that any one of us could cull together just from being a regular here.

Once in awhile when he does seem to have a tiny tidbit, he turns it into "article" that he pulls straight from his derriere. Lots of non-declarative statements, wishy-washy inferences to it's perceived importance, etc., and when you get to the end you wonder, "Uh, what the heck was the insider information supposedly there?"

The other problem is that his personality, well, sucks. He seems rather mean-spirited, and has proven over and over he is simply out to try to buff up his own image. I'll give you an example.

He recently recycled the well-known anecdote of Eisner and the Tweedle-twins. In it, he used some rather offensive terms to the developmentally disabled. I was quite shocked when I read it that he didn't know any better.

In the comments, someone pointed this out, and instead of apologizing and correcting the article, he LAID INTO them, crying knee-jerk "oh the world is too PC" stuff. Saying how it should be obvious that he was quoting Eisner when using the word (repeatedly) and said it was OK because of that. I mean, his rant against this person was longer than the dang article (and full of anger and vitriol).

Thing is, if he was quoting Eisner, he needs to brush up on some journalistic style of how to quote sources, because he made several references to this word without quotes, and that were no where near an actual quote. He was backtracking, because other sycophantic (and ignorant) commenters were rallying him on.

But again, instead of saying, "I may have been wrong," or even, "It wasn't my intention to offend, so I have edited the offensive references from the article that were not clearly quotes," he instead just bashed the commenter down and sounded like he enjoyed it.

There is a reason he is so disliked. Lots of them, actually. He's not someone I would choose to be in bed with, but if you are - it's your decision. But after awhile, I hope you see that it's not like he has not earned his reputation - it's not just that everyone seems to misunderstand him, or what a rumor is.

It's that he is all about self-promotion, and not even very good at that - as at least the other bloggers/etc. that try to ride Disney's coattails actually write books and publish them and produce...something. Hill has such a long list of unfinished projects he is seemingly incapable of finishing it's astounding. I'd actually feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a terrible person in the first place.

We've gone back and forth quite a bit about Jim, I don't think I'm going to be able to change your opinion nor do I think you'll be able to change mine.

What I will say though is that I don't feel Jim is mean spirited at all, and to the contrary I'd consider him quite sympathetic but that falls into conversations that will never see the light of day.

As to the Eisner quote, I'm fairly certain this story was told on our show (as well as apparently other places). I don't remember what my decision was in terms of keeping the content in the show. I do recognize that our show has a greater threshold for insults, so I probably left it in. I didn't read the article you're referencing, but I do get the impression that you are a regular reader of Jim Hill so that you can make your arguments as valid as possible - I fully support this. You come at these discussions and detractions of Jim with informed arguments.

I'm not going to tell you what to be offended by - nor will I defend anything but an apology in the face of something that you do find offensive. To put this in context, I have an autistic brother - but with regards to the "mongoloid" comment, I wasn't offended when it was used in that context. Had I been in the presence of Michael Eisner when the comment was made, I probably WOULD HAVE been offended. But I also don't necessarily think the initial comment was born out of anything but ignorance. I would be offended by the ignorance, but I don't think there was initial malice behind it. Comparatively, Jim is well aware that the comment is offensive - the story should be used as a quotation and really nothing more. If it wasn't, and there was no clarification/apology I have no defense for that.

 

[walterdisney]

I like to sit on the inside of the hub on the edge of the street to watch the parades, fireworks, and the castle MOST especially at Christmastime... I many times sit there as early as 5:30pm to do this. NOW you say I do not need Xpass and yet this very spot has been mentioned as one example of places they plan to exclude non-xpass Guests.




....

this reminds me of a song i once heard...oh yes... "you cant always get what you want"..

 

[disneyeater]

No, it's not you. It's many of us. Disney lovers and shareholders who understand the value of the BRAND and don't feel it's OK to leech off of Disney because you can't get a job in the real world (it's not like these podcasters/DVD makers/tour guides etc need the money to feed starving children ... they are doing it because its easier spending 300-plus days a year in a theme park than it is to actually have a real job).

Thats a lot of hate just because someone is making a buck doing what they like. If you don't think they should be allowed to give tours in the park then fine but creating a podcast/website/DVD about something people are interested in is just good business. Seems like you are just upset they are making a dollar doing something that they might enjoy.

 

[devoy1701]

Will they create a THIRD line for the Xpass folks?? Something tells me that Fastpasses are going away or going to be seriously messed with....

As for the "prime spots" by the castle hub going to xpass folks being just like the handicapped sections.... I disagree...there is no comparison between handicapped folks and someone who is buying an xpass.....trust me my son would rather stand in a normal area but he sadly does not have THAT particular choice since he cannot walk.... I think it is an insult to even try to make this seem the same.

Also 100% agree that annual passholders need to be in this somehow.....we Locals should not be shafted because we opt to visit for the day.

This wouldn't be anything new when it comes to TDO...

 

[dhoywdw20x]

The idea of Xpass as expressed in the article and the views or many posters here, to mean seems like an appropriate and logical idea. Several claims must be addressed:

1 - Premium seating for castle shows, parades and fireworks. Prior to Xpass the method of reserving these spots for entertainment has been primarily the process of arriving to the specified location 30 minutes to an hour or more before the show begins. What is the value of the time being used to wait for a show to begin. How much would you pay to arrive and have a place set for you? There is "utility" in everything offered at WDW. Is waiting for a show worth your daughter not being able to ride dumbo, or see Cinderella? An Xpass allows for the spot to be available and for the cost of waiting (missing Cinderelaa) being voided. Thus the cost is now monetary and the benefit is the same plus you get to see Cinderella.

2 - Pre-Defined Ride Times. Most likely the system will work in congruence with the current FastPass System. Only those current attraction with FastPass will be offered for Xpass. Instead of rushing straight to one of the Mountains or another E-ticket. Go ahead and use your 9:00 AM breakfast ADR, then go to your 10:20 time at Space Mountain. No line. Instead of participating in the Morning Rush toward rides, once again the such-belove "spontanaity and relaxation" is brought back into the lives of our guests. The current system of rides is going from one ride to the next as quickly as possible without delay. Xpass allows riders to pace their day and enjoy small moments throughout the day, scheduling rides around meals and other shows leaving moments to sit on Main Street, or ride small no-line rides such as CoP, PeopleMover and others.

3 - Stratification of Guests. Guest Stratification is only observable to those who are searching for it. To those entering the gates of the Magic Kingdom, their day is not reliant upon the decision of others (though it may be) but reliant upon their excitement and enjoyment of the day. If for you Disney is about relaxation and spontanaiety. So be it. Relax. Be Spontaneous. Xpass won't take it from you, however - you just won't be able to watch the parade on the hub. To you the cost of being spontaneous will be losing the benefit of seeing the parade from the hub. But if the benefit of spontaneity is great enough, the cost of missing the parade at the spot will be negligible.

Xpass is a sound idea which does nothing but enhance the experience for those who want it. While leaving the traditional guest experience as unhampered as possible. In my opinion.

We can only wait to see what happens.