Guys???
I love this thread... but please keep it NICE...
Me too, It's kept me here for days, when I usually hit once or twice a week.
Guys???
I love this thread... but please keep it NICE...
Might I suggest a Magners instead....eurgh words fail me right now...
See, I think the big miscommunication comes in the problem of immediacy. I really don't believe that anyone, including Jimbo, is arguing that the Magic Kingdom will never need another E-Ticket. That's just foolish. As Michael Eisner was famous for saying, "If something isn't growing, it is going to die."
However, Carl, you seem to be stating that the Magic Kingdom is lacking an E-ticket RIGHT NOW. That is also pretty foolish. Once again, I point out the fact that the Magic Kingdom is the busiest theme park in the world. Its doesn't immediately need the help. Right now, its not missing anything. It's all well and good to say "every Disney Theme Park needs a new E-Ticket right now." Its fun to conjecture about what that E-ticket attraction might be. But realit is, Disney simply cannot put a new E-Ticket attraction into each park, now or ever. Priorities must be, and have been set. And those priorities denote the Magic Kingdom getting some substantial refurbs, and a new attraction put on hiatus. Which is perfectly fine with me, and makes sense, from a business and common sense perspective.
Will the Magic Kingdom get an E-Ticket in the future? No doubt, how far along is in question. I think a good time frame to start the process (which can take a considerable amount of time) is in the next 5-7 years.
Right now? Its not needed, not wanted, not warranted, and not necessary.
And Kevin Yee? What can I say about him that I haven't already?
Just because they can get away with closing things down without replacement, doesn’t mean it’s the best long term strategy, it’s just short term thinking. DL has figured this out, WDW has not, but perhaps they are starting to.
CarlHS said:It's pretty simple what I'm saying. MK has lost several attractions (approx 6) without replacement
CarlHS said:Would Walt have endorsed these deletions without replacement? I highly doubt it.[/COLOR]
UFO's have since never been replaced, neither has the mule ride.
I agree, its real simple. I count 1 3/4. Show me where you got 6. The Skyway was taken out and never replaced, so, you are right about that one. 20K leagues was taken out and very partially replaced, leaving a small playground and a large lot for further expansion. Everything else has been replaced.
20K leagues was taken out and very partially replaced, leaving a small playground and a large lot for further expansion.
Appologies if an error occurs below (this is from my sive-like memory).
LOST:
keelboats
canoes
20,000 Leagues
skyway
Entertainment offerings are not attractions, I counter the removal of Sword in the Stone with the introduction of PUSH, the Toontown Tuners, or Captain Jack's Pirate Tutorial (which can occupy a much larger group, and doesn't focus on one lucky kid)Sword in the Stone
Boat ride in the hub canal
Main Street Vehicles (in part)
Walt Disney Story theater went down to one of two theaters, and now is a small draw called the "Milestones of Disney Animation" where guests can relax in air conditioning and watch classics like Steamboat Willie, Flowers and Trees, and The Band Concert (three points if you can name the milestone)Walt Disney Story - Main Street Opera House
One eatery (if not more)
Golden Horseshoe Review (and moving characters from the street inside is not a replacement)
It does, thanks for the question.Does the stage area in TL do anything anymore?
It does, several times a day. And, BTW, its called Storytime with BelleDoes Belle's Book Recital area still operate?
2 parades happened just about every night in the summer, which is also the only time where 2 parades happened in the past as well. Also, NO TIME BEFORE 2006 WAS THERE EVER TWO FIREWORK SHOWS IN THE SAME DAY that wasn't a very special event. They simply didn't have the capability. So, you just kind of shot yourself in the foot with that one, especially, when you look into what used to happen at Walt Disney World, on most days in the off season, the fireworks only played once a week, with the parade being held once a week, and never on the same day as the fireworks (unless it was summer).There used to be 2 parades and 2 fireworks (now usually just 1, or occasionally none if a Hard Ticket is kicking you out.)
Take your pick, moved to replace Walt Disney Story (which was moved to a better, more thourough location at Disney-MGM Studios. Or moved to replace Mickey Mouse Revue in Fantasyland, or was it Magic Eye?Main Street Cinima used to play shorts not sell VMK.
I am not going to spend the time to list all the things that have been gained since the Swan Boats left (using your rather dubious time schedule) Suffice it to say, you are grasping at straws. The Magic Kingdom is the Most Popular Theme Park in the World made for millions, not your personal stomping grounds, catering to only the changes you want.CarlHS said:GAINED:
Pooh's Playful Spot (quite the upgrade there)
Better dinner shows to be had at Hoop de Doo, and Spirit of Aloha, that don't involve having hundreds of guests line up at City Hall for a day-of reservation, since the entertainment is available elsewhere, its a wash
The Swan Boats were removed before you were even born, son. Utterly without a point, one can make a case that they never should have opened in the first place.
Sorry, those shows are not included in the price of admission to the park.Better dinner shows to be had at Hoop de Doo, and Spirit of Aloha, that don't involve having hundreds of guests line up at City Hall for a day-of reservation, since the entertainment is available elsewhere, its a wash.
The Magic Kingdom is the Most Popular Theme Park in the World made for millions, not your personal stomping grounds, catering to only the changes you want.
And empty land is empty land, 20K is great real estate for the type of things you want to come to the MK, you can't build an E-ticket without the land to build it on.
CarlHS said:Which is exactly why it should be capable of more. When you have to stoop to counting a trash can (what is that a C or possibly a D ticket in your book?) as an attraction you are showing that I’m right. There’s no reason that this park shouldn’t be able to afford a new E-Ticket. MK should not only be the most attended, it should be the best![/COLOR]
Listen, I am not going to sit here and post all the things that the MK has added/subtracted since the park opened in 1971. To do so would be an inglorious waste of my time.
Um.. The Carousel of Progress is no longer Seasonal and has been open year round for the last 2 years or so. :wave:My what a heated thread...
I am new here but a longtime WDW and DL visitor, and DVC owner. My two cents...
DL was always more fun than MK. DL's Pirates ride still blows MK's completely away... something about floating through that swamp, past the cabin and through the trees while the fireflies flicker... and the rest of the ride is just better too. I was actually a bit disappointed with the big MK Pirate refurb as I felt much more could have been done, than was actually done. There are several big expanses that could have, should have had vignettes that are just completely barren.
I did see the new Haunted Mansion refurb this past week. I felt it was a much bigger improvement overall than the Pirates one. Floating Leota's suspension cable is obvious though - they need to tweak the lighting a bit to hide it.
Main Street.. crowded as it can be, it still has pockets of unused space, amazingly enough. More could be done with it. Thank goodness this week when we were there, the "Right Down the Middle of Main Street" debacle was not running. My husband and I actually made up alternative lyrics for the song years ago... "right down the middle of Main Street USA... Because my job is to dance around and block your way..." and it goes on. We're convinced the whole thing is a ploy to force you to walk through the shops and spend money, since the street and sidewalks become impassable with people struggling to get around this show. :ROFLOL:
MK Adventureland entrance from the hub has become an abandoned passage with a couple of distractions on your way to Pirates and Frontierland. Much of it is just closed storefronts with occasional character lines under the awnings. Of all the lands, it has the most barren and abandoned feel when you cross the bridge and enter it. Regardless of whatever politics and personalities were involved, the Indiana Jones ride or something like it should have been added to MK Adventureland a decade ago. It really is in dire need of a new top-notch ride of some kind.
I was glad to see that Aladdin's Magic Carpets is scheduled for rehab soon. It is in high need of maintenance; it is looking shabby and when we were there last week one of the carpets was even tarped and unusable. They were running the ride anyway, short a carpet.
Frontierland is still holding up... Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain are tried and true, we still enjoy them immensely. The town area of Frontierland could use some TLC, though the Western town theme is more forgiving of lazy upkeep than the other lands, since weatherbeaten and scruffy is "in" there.
Fantasyland... has become IgnoreItLand for our family. The area really just needs improvements all over- from queueing to cleaning. We venture in there to see PhilharMagic and to cross that top quadrant of the park.
Ariel's Grotto and the Pooh playground have become eyesores. The Pooh playground was closed last week - I don't know if it was for maintenance or if the are going to do away with it (please!). (Honestly why buy expensive APs to go climb on plastic playground equipment - we can do that for free at home. Taking out a ride attraction and replacing it with a poorly designed playground = not good!) The ongoing conversion of areas to character photo lines and simple playgrounds truly needs to stop- it certainly isn't going to generate repeat business; once you have a few photos with Mickey, you don't want to pay for admission to go get more.
Tomorrowland... I still love Tomorrowland. It, too, needs a lot of TLC right now, most especially some updated theming. The rides there are still fun... we love Buzz and ride it repeatedly, our son loves the Laugh Floor (though it's different- and seemed shorter- now than it was when we saw it during the AP preview). The Indy cars, despite the stink, are still a hit and Space Mountain seems to just keep chugging. But an overall theming upgrade, all across the exteriors in Tomorrowland, would make a huge difference. What was futuristic decades ago hardly looks it anymore - it looks retro 50s now. The window displays along the PeopleMover ride need to be updated desperately, as well.
And I know purists argue that Carousel of Progress should be kept and all that.. but it's terrible and woefully outdated (so sorry, it is!). And closed for 80-90 percent of the year anyway. Nor have I ever seen anything in that Galaxy Theater, and I spend 2 weeks a year on WDW property. There is SO much wasted space in MK, it kills me to think what could be done if they'd only DO it.
Sadly they seem to be turning quite a tidy profit by doing marginal refurbs, adding hair-gel boutiques and not adding new rides. (Yes, I am a castle lover who is highly annoyed that the castle shop was replaced with another goop factory for little girls, and the restaurant is now all Princess all the time!).
Mostly the draw these days seems to be the ubiquitious and plentiful character lines - you cannot turn around anywhere in the park without at least one being within eyeshot, usually multiples. MGM is just as bad. I am really beginning to see why people say their teenagers do not want to go to WDW. Once you outgrow hugging people in fuzzy suits, the park-based entertainment can get to be a bit thin.
I hope Potter Land helps kick Disney in the pants. I don't think Universal will do that well with it over the long haul, as I have found their park to be poorly kept when I went there - within a few years after it opens, no doubt, Potter Land will be in disrepair as well. It's also an open question whether opening in 2010 will even generate much interest so far past the Potter-mania era as it might have in the last 2-3 years. But perhaps having some big time, big name competition will force WDW to focus a bit more of the cash cow's cash back on the cow instead of shipping it out of state to support other parts of the company.
Anyway... my two cents. I can't really argue attraction lists or E tickets. All I know is the park is feeling run down and the only new things we saw in this year's MK are more character lines and a hair gel boutique!
I have been watching the changes to the EPCOT entrance area surrounding Spaceship Earth with great interest. I like them - I think just this kind of cleanup and refresh could do wonders for parts of MK, most especially Adventureland and Tomorrowland. I hope they keep going with park improvements over the next decade.
Um.. The Carousel of Progress is no longer Seasonal and has been open year round for the last 2 years or so. :wave:
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