It's the end of the world!!!

[WDWGarden]

AndyMagic said: "Walt wouldn't have a heart attack at the thought of a new technologically advanced ride! He would have a heart attack once he saw how boring and dated a park devoted to the future had become!

Well Said!

Let me first say that I LOVE EPCOT. The park is brilliant, beautiful, and fun. SSE is second only to COP on my favorites list. That said...LET'S GET THE CRANES ROLLING!!

SSE needs a BIG change. True it has huge attendance, but the folks getting off are anything but fired up about their enlightenment regarding the history of communication. They have the same glassy-eyed look as people walking off WofM and Horizons (Both of which I loved!).

I completely agree that it is VITAL to the soul of Epcot that the attractions have a greater message. Not just a quick thrill, but greater insight into some aspect of life. The problem is, the audience has changed. People (adults, kids, teens, families...)do not have the attention span they once had. And as much as this SUCKS, it is not going to be changed at Walt Disney World. So, what Disney must do is keep the messages more straight forward and entertaining. Otherwise the message is lost to nap time...then what good is it. The history of communication from the beginning of recorded time to the future is a pretty big pill to swallow on vacation...an attraction that chooses a portion of this story and presents it in a fun, entertaining way can be just as profound.

This is what Test Track attempts to do. Developing the story of how transportation evolves in the present and how this evolution effects ME. This idea is much more concrete, more relevent. It's a fun ride that has a message.

On a side note...Omnimovers don't make the ride...the story makes the ride.

 

[General Grizz]

Test Track...as far as cars. The essence of transportation is MUCH more significant!

EPCOT was dreamed up, and later built in the hope of progress. Of course there is discovery. There always has been. But the main focus was the creation of several pavilions (themed to communication, energy resource and conservation, human science, transportation, the imagination, the land, the living seas). The essence of motion is very crucial to not only the world, but mankind. The World of Motion provided a humorous and entertaining look at the history of motion (with huge sets and the most animatronics than any WDW attraction, with a great theme song message) and our future. Progress - taking the past, taking the present, forming the future. Probably Walt's favorite concept. It was all in the essence of the World of Motion. This essential theme (and great storyline of all time) was torn down. Of course, I would have been pleased to see a new attraction, taking the themes of World of Motion and bringing it to higher technological standards to truly exemplify what Disney is as far as its thematic significance. Instead, we get a thrill ride.

Yes, there are crowds. But the whole ideals behind the World of Motion have been destroyed. You may learn a couple facts about GM cars, but that is not something as progressful as motion itself - something that will influence the world as WOM displayed. And it's limited to thrill seekers. It's not really a family attraction, unless everyone is healthy, young, tall, and not disabled. Time to take the families next door - to Horizons - which now has been also limited in its family friendly capacity. Family and progress are the essence of Disney. Progress rooted from the family (HA! The Carousel of Progress!). So EPCOT is becoming (A) A park in which there is major separation of groups and (B) A park which is going against its own foundation in order to gain money. Not only this, but the fans of World of Motion, the promise of tomorrow theme, have been booted out. Furthermore, the attraction meets up to no capacity on a Disney level, except for the technolgoy a quick run around the pavilion for a few seconds and other "tests". Half the pavilion is used. No animatronics. Not much of anything except a thrill ride, which is good for thrill seekers, but in result will do the Disney Company no good. The long run seems to be dwindiling as the ideals of progress in the attractions are taken out and families are separated - even in television programming!

I'm not against the lovers of Test Track. But I am against this attraction. Heck, there could have been compromise - a balance.

Please take a look at a previous response (last post, previous page).

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
No! You'll give him a heart attack!


HELP ME! SIEZURE! HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!

I know this is off topic but I just have to say that it is sort of funny to read your distressing posts because I look over at that turkey and it makes you seem all the more upset. :lol:

 

[AndyMagic]

Don't take this the wrong way Grizzly. No matter how much you would like to think so, the world of Disney does not revolve around you and I really don't think you or anyone else should say what "Walt would approve of." The truth is, Walt Disney existed in a VERY different time so what he would approve of now might be something completely different from what he approved of back then. Disney World isn't there to please you Grizzly, it is here to please the general public. The general public would rather Test Track over World of Motion any day. Also, your use of Family Friendly baffles me! There truly is no such thing. I think what you mean to say is senior citizen friendly. Teenagers ARE part of the family you know and they would certainly not have fun on what you call family rides. The truth is there will never be a ride to please everyone so please stop complaining about changes made to Walt Disney World that will make everyone happy but you and other hardcore IMPOSSIBLE to please fanatics.

 

[General Grizz]

Walt Disney World exists - so that the parents and the children can have fun together.

Different people have different tastes. That's a fact. We live in a diverse world. And Walt Disney hoped that good things could come out of it.

Your use of Family Friendly baffles me! There truly is no such thing.

*sigh* That scares me.

This was Walt Disney's goal. And Walt Disney achieved it through his many attractions and entertainment. Families have been brought together. Young children and seniors each are as much of a family as teenagers are. This is why Walt Disney built a theme park - where everyone could have fun together - where bonds form - the bonds necessary for progress.

There is such thing as an attraction that, "in general" pleases young children, adults, teenagers, and seniors. Think of one. Better yet, IMAGINE one. Test Track is physically impossible for young kids to ride, or visitors with health problems. Yet, I go into Fantasyland and see teenagers lined up in Dark Rides. But I must warn you: teenagers is broad. There is a hefty percent who don't care for thrill rides and prefer a more Disney-esque, classic approach.

So why not - why not instead replace World of Motion with a brand new experience that hangs on to the old ideas - but puts the qualities in them even better? Make it appealing to more people? Not kick out one "group" and put in another...how about grouping them together? And, if teenagers or adults want a thrill ride, why don't they build one next to the Family attraction? This is what Disney is about!

The truth is there will never be a ride to please everyone so please stop complaining about changes made to Walt Disney World that will make everyone happy but you and other hardcore IMPOSSIBLE to please fanatics.

Impossible. Really? This is really a scary evening. Go see the Timekeeper.. Oh wait...it's closed.

Improbable...Impossible, NO. Haha; these ideals are present in those attractions that are closed, how IRONIC is that! :lol:

You may not be able to please EVERYONE at once, but it's not going to help by limiting the group size. The balance has been weighed now to the other side. There are ways of balancing...put courage into what you do. If you can dream it, there really is some way it can be done. And keep trying and put your heart into work. And then we will see ourselves in an ever revolving carousel of progress.

 

[The_CEO]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Don't take this the wrong way Grizzly. No matter how much you would like to think so, the world of Disney does not revolve around you and I really don't think you or anyone else should say what "Walt would approve of." The truth is, Walt Disney existed in a VERY different time so what he would approve of now might be something completely different from what he approved of back then. Disney World isn't there to please you Grizzly, it is here to please the general public. The general public would rather Test Track over World of Motion any day. Also, your use of Family Friendly baffles me! There truly is no such thing. I think what you mean to say is senior citizen friendly. Teenagers ARE part of the family you know and they would certainly not have fun on what you call family rides. The truth is there will never be a ride to please everyone so please stop complaining about changes made to Walt Disney World that will make everyone happy but you and other hardcore IMPOSSIBLE to please fanatics.

But they wont be changing S.E. to any ride just because of the whole ICON deal.. I would rather see UoE gone. I think you need to calm down Andy. Grizz is just expressing his love for Disney.. This is a disney board you know

 

[jaylenofan86]

Is it me, or does it look like the people with a low amount of posts are for a complete change in SE?

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by jaylenofan86
Is it me, or does it look like the people with a low amount of posts are for a complete change in SE?

You know, I was thinking the same thing... Do you suppose it represents the "in" crowd, the teenage all for thrill rides Guests?

It's funny how people always say that stuff like Peter Pan or CoP don't work anymore because they're incredibly boring for teenagers... But there were teenagers in the 60's, right? Now, if people have really changed, then it should be all ages, not only teenagers... Oh, I don't know, I'm tired, I need some sleep. :hammer: Did any of this make sense to you guys?

 

[AndyMagic]

Originally posted by the_ceo_at_wdw
But they wont be changing S.E. to any ride just because of the whole ICON deal.. I would rather see UoE gone. I think you need to calm down Andy. Grizz is just expressing his love for Disney.. This is a disney board you know

I don't see how I can calm down as I wasn't excited to begin with. Indeed it is a Disney board and Grizzly has every right to say what he feels. I wasn't saying he shouldn't say those things I was simply responding to them. Grizzly, I have searched around these forums and have yet to find a positive post. Is there anything you DO like about the current Disney Co.?

 

[bdhowell]

SAD

Well, I am hurt! I work at SSE and this will be a big blow to our team. We are already loosing our AT&T friends. I am sooooo attached to the ride, because I am there almost everyday, and it will take me awhile to get used to this, if it happens. We have not heard anything yet, but I would not be surprised.

 

[mickey04]

Here's hoping it turns out to be a rumor (even though I have a strange feeling that its not. ) LONG LIVE SPACESHIP EARTH!

Maybe they'll at least take down the stupid "EPCOT" sign on top of it.

 

[isnet396]

Originally posted by MKCustodial
You know, I was thinking the same thing... Do you suppose it represents the "in" crowd, the teenage all for thrill rides Guests?

Absolutely not. I'm 14, and still lovin' the classics. Althought I have to admit that SE is getting a bit old. I don't say that very easily either. Keep UoE and WoL (well.....maybe) and TLS, and the Land. I can hardly stand ANY version of Imagination since the original.....maybe its because I got hooked at a young age and was pretty computer literate.....


But I also have four hundred forty something posts...:F

Ian

 

[isnet396]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
I don't see how I can calm down as I wasn't excited to begin with. Indeed it is a Disney board and Grizzly has every right to say what he feels. I wasn't saying he shouldn't say those things I was simply responding to them. Grizzly, I have searched around these forums and have yet to find a positive post. Is there anything you DO like about the current Disney Co.?

Just in case you haven't figured it out yet, Don't mess with Grizz's philosophy. I happen to agree with it on the most part, unlike a select few on the boards.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
I don't see how I can calm down as I wasn't excited to begin with. Indeed it is a Disney board and Grizzly has every right to say what he feels. I wasn't saying he shouldn't say those things I was simply responding to them. Grizzly, I have searched around these forums and have yet to find a positive post. Is there anything you DO like about the current Disney Co.?

Andy you do need to understand one thing here, Grizz is talking about the Disney when Disney cared about the guest and the original philosphy that walt had about having attractions that all family members could enjoy together, Not ok kids you go on that ride and well wait for you or no mom and dad that ride is for old people. you were'nt even born untill the Eisner era began, so you have no idea about the experiences of which we speak of. Grizz is refering to the Disney in the days before Eisner took over cared about what changes the guests wanted and not what changes would bring in the most revenue. shure Disney has to be profitable but It seems that changes are made for the money rather than keeping things fresh for the whole family. I can't answer for time keeper since I havent been there since the attraction opened but I didn't like the fact that they replaced Circlevision 360 for this attraction that is only now opened seasonally. As far as CoP the old guard would have refurbished it in someway to keep it fresh or they would have said that it was not living up to the original ideals and would have closed it and replaced it long ago, and not give it the "draging a dead horse out for parades" like Eisner is doing to it now. Shure Walt did replace old attractions , like the Indian circle and the Mule train at DL but when it came to an attraction in a building he usually either tore it down right away or updated the original But they were usually for "ALL" the family and not one demographic with the most disposible cash. So in conclusion what Grizz and I are saying is that we don't like the way Eisner is changing things at Disney and going against the ideals that were the reason DL and WDW were built. it hase nothing to do with being negative, Just that we have pasion for the way Walt would have done it..

GRIZZ if I spoke out of turn on your comment let me know but this is what I belive you may have meant.

 

[General Grizz]

Wow! You're really good at analyzing!

To answer your question, in Timekeeper, HG Wells at the end saw Nine Eye (a time traveling robot) as impossible. (This was in the late 1800s). Jules Verne said that it was improbable, but not impossible.

This was the philosophy that Walt Disney told his Imagineers. "If we can dream it, there really is some way it can be done!" He stressed this idea to the end - and even displays it in the Carousel of Progress "...he follows his dream with mind and heart..."...and the Shermans in Imagination: "A dream can be a dream come true - with just that spark in me and you."

Here is some good information about my kind of change:

AMERICAN JOURNEYS TO TIMEKEEPER
*The same type of showcase is preserved
*The soundtrack and film is broader
*It travels through the past, and also into the future
*It is a comedy show somewhat
*It uses high-tech Animatronics and other effects for great storytelling
****NUMBER 1: IT DISPLAYS AN IMPORTANT THEME********
We have a winner! But this was..almost ten years ago.

Also, Alien Encounter, though not as family-friendly, advanced the technology and story of planets and traveling and even added a cute preshow with Animatronics.

But what happened in Future World...this is neglect to philosophy.

Jmarc - excellent post.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Ok everyone simmer down. First of all, I think everyone has to understand that the ride isn't the most popular because of how fun it is but rather because of its location. It is the first thing people see and the first thing people ride. You could have a merry-go-round in that building and it would be the most "popular" ride in Walt Disney World. Another thing that people should know, disney fans might have a ball on it but the general public thinks it is boring, outdated, and not impressive at all. I know you guys hate to admit it but the sphere is what everyone loves, NOT the ride. I worked in Spaceship Earth when I was down there for the college program and very rarely would people come off the ride looking happy. The ride is squeeky and bumpy, the animitronics are old, the soundtrack is HORRIBLE, the seats are as hard as stone, and the theme is a snore fest. And believe it or not, after all that, I truly love the ride. Not because it is impressive but because of nostalga and memories from when it used to be impressive. Grizzly you have it wrong. Walt wouldn't have a heart attack at the thought of a new technologically advanced ride! He would have a heart attack once he saw how boring and dated a park devoted to the future had become!

Andy I don't agree that SE is only popular because of it's location, If guests thought it was dull and boring then they wouldn't ride on there return visits and unless you know the people then how do you know that SE is the reason they look unhappy comming off the Attraction. Did you ask every guests the exited "Did SE make you unhappy?" I just don't for a minuite belive that.

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Grizzly you have it wrong. Walt wouldn't have a heart attack at the thought of a new technologically advanced ride! He would have a heart attack once he saw how boring and dated a park devoted to the future had become!

That is totally untrue. If you belive that then how do you explain attractions like The Tiki Room, Great Moments with Mr Linclon, Hall of presidents which were the first concepts for AA's or AA's in general. Walt wanted to do TTR , GMwML and HoP since the 50's but couldnt get it right with the technology that was available at that time, They would have looked like robots instead of standins for a human.so he waited for the cutting edge technology that the Military had to use for them. It took till the 60's for the technology to become available and at that time it is when walt finished developement on the first AA's. I could give you more but it would go more off topic then this.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
Wow! You're really good at analyzing!

To answer your question, in Timekeeper, HG Wells at the end saw Nine Eye (a time traveling robot) as impossible. (This was in the late 1800s). Jules Verne said that it was improbable, but not impossible.

This was the philosophy that Walt Disney told his Imagineers. "If we can dream it, there really is some way it can be done!" He stressed this idea to the end - and even displays it in the Carousel of Progress "...he follows his dream with mind and heart..."...and the Shermans in Imagination: "A dream can be a dream come true - with just that spark in me and you."

Here is some good information about my kind of change:

AMERICAN JOURNEYS TO TIMEKEEPER
*The same type of showcase is preserved
*The soundtrack and film is broader
*It travels through the past, and also into the future
*It is a comedy show somewhat
*It uses high-tech Animatronics and other effects for great storytelling
****NUMBER 1: IT DISPLAYS AN IMPORTANT THEME********
We have a winner! But this was..almost ten years ago.

Also, Alien Encounter, though not as family-friendly, advanced the technology and story of planets and traveling and even added a cute preshow with Animatronics.

But what happened in Future World...this is neglect to philosophy.

Jmarc - excellent post.

Thank You Grizz-

I did forget to mention Alien Encounter which as we all know was the original location for flight to the moon, then soon updated to Mission to Mars after we had already been to the moon several times by the time WDW opened.

I am so passionate about Walts philosophy that some of Eisners Decisions make me literaly sick. I don't enjoy Rollorcoaster type rides due to a medical condition I have so DL and WDW are the only theme parks that I can get my moneys worth, so when I was a kid in the early years I went on everything except SM and BTMRR, so I may not be able to enjoy M:S when it opens, But I love the concept. It's not wouth it for me to go to the local Six flaggs since it's all thrill and not much else.

 

[Horizons1]

My god :dazzle: Please dont tell me Disney would be willing to sink that low please.If they Destroy SE well,well,i dunno but i wont be happy about it.Just be a rumor please please

 

[mickeyfanatics]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Don't take this the wrong way Grizzly. No matter how much you would like to think so, the world of Disney does not revolve around you and I really don't think you or anyone else should say what "Walt would approve of." The truth is, Walt Disney existed in a VERY different time so what he would approve of now might be something completely different from what he approved of back then. Disney World isn't there to please you Grizzly, it is here to please the general public. The general public would rather Test Track over World of Motion any day. Also, your use of Family Friendly baffles me! There truly is no such thing. I think what you mean to say is senior citizen friendly. Teenagers ARE part of the family you know and they would certainly not have fun on what you call family rides. The truth is there will never be a ride to please everyone so please stop complaining about changes made to Walt Disney World that will make everyone happy but you and other hardcore IMPOSSIBLE to please fanatics.

No offense in my comments, but your comments scare me and only confirm a truth that is laid out in the American Adventure:

"We now face the dangers that in the past have been the most destructive to the humans; success, plenty, comfort, and ever increasing leasure. No Dynamic People have ever survived these dangers."


Your comments also show that the American public is stupid, nieve, and does not care about learning or becoming smarter.....Gee, no wonder we are so far behind the Japs. That quote above from Mark Twain's AA of John Steinbeck is so true in our country. It is the main reason why one of my coworkers said to me, "America is not falling apart from without, we are falling apart from within!"


BTW, Grizz, I agree with you that WDW and DL were built for the same ideas, "So basically Disneyland came about from a daddy who wanted a place to go with his two daughters and they could have fun together" (Walt Disney). "A Magic Kingdom where the young at heart of all ages can laugh and play and learn together" (Roy O Disney).

 

[mickey04]

Originally posted by jmarc63
Andy you do need to understand one thing here, Grizz is talking about the Disney when Disney cared about the guest and the original philosphy that walt had about having attractions that all family members could enjoy together, Not ok kids you go on that ride and well wait for you or no mom and dad that ride is for old people. you were'nt even born untill the Eisner era began, so you have no idea about the experiences of which we speak of. Grizz is refering to the Disney in the days before Eisner took over cared about what changes the guests wanted and not what changes would bring in the most revenue. shure Disney has to be profitable but It seems that changes are made for the money rather than keeping things fresh for the whole family. I can't answer for time keeper since I havent been there since the attraction opened but I didn't like the fact that they replaced Circlevision 360 for this attraction that is only now opened seasonally. As far as CoP the old guard would have refurbished it in someway to keep it fresh or they would have said that it was not living up to the original ideals and would have closed it and replaced it long ago, and not give it the "draging a dead horse out for parades" like Eisner is doing to it now. Shure Walt did replace old attractions , like the Indian circle and the Mule train at DL but when it came to an attraction in a building he usually either tore it down right away or updated the original But they were usually for "ALL" the family and not one demographic with the most disposible cash. So in conclusion what Grizz and I are saying is that we don't like the way Eisner is changing things at Disney and going against the ideals that were the reason DL and WDW were built. it hase nothing to do with being negative, Just that we have pasion for the way Walt would have done it..

GRIZZ if I spoke out of turn on your comment let me know but this is what I belive you may have meant.

That isn't exactly a fair statement in my opinion. Now, being from the "Eisner era" myself, perhaps I too am incapable of understanding the wonderful company that Disney used to be as opposed to the decaying thing it is now.

While I understand where you are coming from- believe me I've read entire books on Walt Disney and his philosophy-- and I agree with it. But to say that Disney, under Eisner has ignored its guests, etc. is unfair. Perhaps lately cost-cutting has one overboard, but that's a very short amount of time in the 15+ years Eisner has been in charge, and a lot of great things have happened.

Anyway, there have been a lot of great rides, movies, shows since Eisner took over, and Disney certainly wouldn't be as successful as it is if they ignored their public and the happiness of families. To dismiss over a decade of Disney as uncaring is unfair. Yes, I did grow up during it- and I still love Disney for the same reasons you do. And although it may not be the company it was when Walt ran it, it isn't a bad company now. it still brings joy to millions.

As far as SE is concerned, I love it. I honestly hope it's not replaced. But don't forget it wasn't even built or even envisoned by Walt. Perhaps 20 years from now, "Mission: Space" will be a classic to the children of today who will grow up with it- or Dinosaur- or Tower of Terror. We don't know what Time Racers will be, but perhaps it will be something great. We'll just have to wait and see.