It's not Epcot anymore.. (wand demo pics)

[flynnibus]

Whoa there... The wand in the position that it is in will not come down in one piece simply by cutting it at the bottom and lowering it to the ground.

Nearly any weight can be moved and repositioned. Its all about the tools.

That idea might work in a fairy tale land of a disney movie. But in the real world if you were to take it apart as one piece there are other concerns.

#1. Every weld on the structure must be able to support the weight of the structure underneath it. Without the earth pushing back on the wand...that's a lot of weight pulling down.

What? Did you even take physics? The balance of forces (through the ground) only prevent ACCELERATION... not create additional force.

Your concern would be would the structure be able to support itself if laid down. You have to worry about the structure taking loads from new directions when the orientation of the structure is changed. But since its a HUGE SAIL built in hurricane areas it must be massively strong to tolerate the wind loads it was built for. Plus, its a massive steel structure. I highly doubt it would not be able to sustain perpendicular loads when its orientation was changed purely based on the torsional and perpendicular loads it was designed for to be hurricane safe.

#2. You have to lift from the fulcrum of the structure. If you lifted from even a little bit to one side, the structure will tilt once removed and possible....BAM....into SSE.

Uhh.. no lift goes on FROM ONE POINT. That would be moronic. You lift from multiple points to stabilize the load and the orientation of the load is critical to not overload your individual lines (transferring more of the mass to one line then its rated for). Your lines are varying lengths to force the load to stay in the rotation you want.

#3. Imagine you get steps 1 and 2 covered just fine and you get the wand lifted into the air. Then a gust of wind comes through. That outer covering is going to act like a kite and who knows where that wand will sway to. Again, possibly into SSE.

Wind is something every crane operator deals with EVERY DAY. Much larger loads with MUCH greater precision are handled daily throughout the world. Entire sections of buildings, ships, etc are placed with MILLIMETERS of tolerance. Wind is not something unique to the wand, nor is it dramatically significant in the scheme of the business.

Thousands of TONS? You know how big of a crane you'd need to lift that much? You also have to remember that whatever it lifts has to be cantilevered...the crane may be able to lift a lot of weight, but it can't lift more than its own weight.

The point was to counter 'its too heavy'. No its not, just size the crane for the job.

My guess is they are removing all the non-load bearing pieces because they pose a positioning risk, can't support additional weights on them, and complicate movement of the structure.

Plus.. they limited themselves based on how much ground clearance they want to eat up next to SSE.

The real issue is egress to the site. There is no wide path to backstage or the parking lot from the current location. The entrance plaza blocks access to the lots.. The monorail and the winding path to backstage behind UOE block open access to the east. the area is wooded and does not even have a path for an oversized load to make its way out. Without wiping out all the trees and dealing with the monorail.. they are most likely limiting themselves on the size of components they are hauling out.

It's the site limitations, not the load or materials that are liking binding them to this course of action

 

[UltimtMickeyFan]

So, where or what route are they able to use to take these pieces out each night? They are so huge it would seems, that they cannot get any kind of tractor trailer in the area of SSE to be able to truck them out etc.... Any ideas?

 

[PLTram]

When will this subject die?

 

[goofyfan13]

When will this subject die?

Never.

 

[hauntdmansion79]

You want sad, look at the destruction of Horizons - a travesty inside the park, and fully visible in the latter weeks from all over property. Somethings by their very nature are too big to remove unseen.

They should have had 2 things at Epcot while this was happening.

1.) A warning sing at the entrance to the park stating:

WARNING
Horizons demolition ahead
What you are about to see may be disturbing to Disney fans
Please be advised of graphic content
If you feel faint please look away and sit down imediately
​

2.) They should have played "Taps" on loud speakers out front of Horizons at all times out of respect.​

:wave:​

 

[goofntink]

To update everyone,just got back from MK. E and P are only letters left. Would have got pictures if my batteries weren't dead!

 

[TestTrack]

Nearly any weight can be moved and repositioned. Its all about the tools.



What? Did you even take physics? The balance of forces (through the ground) only prevent ACCELERATION... not create additional force.

Once you lift the structure off the ground the lifting points have to be able to support the weight of the wand. This is NOT the case when its sitting on the ground. If you are the weld at almost the top of the wand...how much weight are you supporting? Now lets say we lift by the top, how much weight is that same weld supporting now?

Don't try to take this to an insult of intelligence

Wind is something every crane operator deals with EVERY DAY. Much larger loads with MUCH greater precision are handled daily throughout the world. Entire sections of buildings, ships, etc are placed with MILLIMETERS of tolerance. Wind is not something unique to the wand, nor is it dramatically significant in the scheme of the business.

I have yet to see a crane the size disney is using lift a structure the size you want them to all at once. Especially when the structure is shaped the way the wand is. A few I-beams? Sure, I don't think that would be so hard to avoid wind force...a giant structure covered in some type of material...I think that's a big issue.


But anyway, you obviously know better than the contractors that are removing the structure. You should go do it.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I love all these brilliant people here telling how they would remove it. This is Disney. They will do this the safest, most cost-effective way possible (meaning as quickly as they can do it safely). Perhaps some of you brilliant people can take it down with your bare hands, since you've clearly already put your Ph.D.s in architecture to use by calculating every point we would need a person to be holding the wand to ensure we can safely carry it across the park and deposit it in World Showcase Lagoon.

 

[flynnibus]

Once you lift the structure off the ground the lifting points have to be able to support the weight of the wand. This is NOT the case when its sitting on the ground.

That's why you can't attach anywhere and why you don't lift from one point. If the support columns can support the weight of the wand on the ground.. they can support it in the air. Mass doesn't change because you moved it. What changes is direction of force, and yes, you wouldn't try to pick the thing up from the tip of the wand, its not designed for the load. But the entire thing is tubular steel box frame. It's a freakin tank.

But anyway, you obviously know better than the contractors that are removing the structure. You should go do it.

No - the point is to stop errant ideas on why something may be that way. Worrying about it swinging into SSE, or 'lack of ground pushing back', or worrying about a gust of wind are not it.

 

[flynnibus]

I have yet to see a crane the size disney is using lift a structure the size you want them to all at once. Especially when the structure is shaped the way the wand is. A few I-beams? Sure, I don't think that would be so hard to avoid wind force...a giant structure covered in some type of material...I think that's a big issue.

Now you are using the choice of crane to invalidate what other cranes can do? ('a crane the size disney is using'). Scientific method is obviously not your forte.

that's like showing up to the work site with a pick axe and saying 'sorry guys, we can't dig the tunnel.. this axe just can't do it'.

What this crane could or could not do, doesn't dictate the possibilities. Disney is constrained by the egress to the site, that's my analysis.

 

[cmatt]

I love all these brilliant people here telling how they would remove it. This is Disney. They will do this the safest, most cost-effective way possible (meaning as quickly as they can do it safely). Perhaps some of you brilliant people can take it down with your bare hands, since you've clearly already put your Ph.D.s in architecture to use by calculating every point we would need a person to be holding the wand to ensure we can safely carry it across the park and deposit it in World Showcase Lagoon.

if the us is like the uk there will be A TON of health and safety constraints also :wave:

 

[flynnibus]

I love all these brilliant people here telling how they would remove it. This is Disney. They will do this the safest, most cost-effective way possible (meaning as quickly as they can do it safely).

Since when is 'cost efficent' the quickest? What dictates that is which is your expensive components and how long can you justify having them. A crane in the big picture is not that expensive. They are probably paying more in engineering fees and man power then they are for the crane rental itself. (remember you are paying for off-hours work!)

 

[ToTBellHop]

if the us is like the uk there will be A TON of health and safety constraints also :wave:

and another constraint...if something went wrong and Disney had to close Epcot for a day, they lose big money. It's just not worth it to Disney. So some kids will call it "E" for a day...who cares? It'd be worse (read: better) when the only finger left is Mickey's middle finger...have a think about that for awhile...

 

[jmvd20]

Since when is 'cost efficent' the quickest? What dictates that is which is your expensive components and how long can you justify having them. A crane in the big picture is not that expensive. They are probably paying more in engineering fees and man power then they are for the crane rental itself. (remember you are paying for off-hours work!)

The wand is being removed in the safest, most cost effective manner due to the position that it is in. While the worlds largest cranes (such as PTC III) may be able to lift huge objects what damage would bringing a behemoth such as that into Epcot cause? How many trees, planters, and buildings would need to be moved?

You are sorely mistaken thinking that the wand can very simply and cheaply be taken down in one piece...

What gives me the ability to say that - I run projects like this for a living...

 

[jmvd20]

I love all these brilliant people here telling how they would remove it. This is Disney. They will do this the safest, most cost-effective way possible (meaning as quickly as they can do it safely).

I offer up suggestions on how I would remove it because that is what I do everyday. I'm not an expert on the current internal affairs of WDI and have no insiders at WDW... therefore when something comes along that I am knowledgeable in I get excited and like to post in those topics.

I posted in one of the several hundred wand threads how it would be taken down and so far that is how they are doing it.

You are 100% correct that the methods they have used thus far are indeed the safest, and most cost effective way possible. The thought of taking that structure down in one piece leads me to images of ambulances and body bags.

 

[jmvd20]

if the us is like the uk there will be A TON of health and safety constraints also :wave:

You bet there are, due to the area where this work is going on I would bet OSHA is not far away.

Everything from safety, to money, and time play major roles in deciding how a project like this is taken on.

 

[WDWFigment]

Umm... You all seem to be overlooking the possibility of bringing the XCT W2Q Spaceship in, positioning it next to the SSE, attaching a large (model SQUEE45 not the inferior SQUA35) cable to the wand, and having the rocket "blast off" (scientific term, lay people wouldn't understand), thus removing the wand.

Really, why are some of you arguing over this? Disney is removing the crane the most cost ef--the way Disney has determined they want to remove the wand. Unless you have some influx within the company, insulting others (flynnibus) is not going to accomplish a whole lot. You may be right about the physics and general possibility for quicker remove, but how is that relevant if Disney is going to do it their own way? All your posts are likely to do is make you come across as a condescending person.

 

[ToTBellHop]

does it really matter if complete strangers think you are condescending though? I wear mouse ears at WDW but not at home because I don't care what complete strangers think of me, but if I can't get a date at home because golden mouse ears are a turn-off, I'm not happy.

Can't we all just be happy that the wand is coming down? Why the rush? You guys have been waiting 8 years for this moment. Savor it. As Remy the rat would say, "don't just hork it down!!!"

Too late.

 

[jmvd20]

does it really matter if complete strangers think you are condescending though? I wear mouse ears at WDW but not at home because I don't care what complete strangers think of me, but if I can't get a date at home because golden mouse ears are a turn-off, I'm not happy.

:ROFLOL:

That MUST be my problem!!! I thought all women felt those ears were sexy!

 

[flynnibus]

The thought of taking that structure down in one piece leads me to images of ambulances and body bags.

The thing is only 50 tons by internet references. that is not a massive load!

Edit: it seems that number is of contention..as this site lists it as 350 tons