Its been good Disney World

[Animaniac93-98]

And GM was the largest and most profitable company in the World.

And McDonald's was the fast food leader.

And Sears was the premier department store.

And ...

...Kodak, Eatons etc. Even long established brands can fall apart over time.

 

[MickeyMomV]

I applaud you for putting your feelings out there and standing up for what you believe in. Like others have said, I sure we will see you back at some point. As Disney fans, its in our blood and I don't think anybody can just turn it off.

Just a couple of things on your points of discussion. When I was younger we would go camping to this one particular campground. I remember the place being huge! It is on Lake Michigan and I used to love playing on the sand dunes. The playground was awesome and I would spend hours there. Fast forward 15 years and I returned there with my family. The campground, after an expansion, is smaller than I remember, the beach is not near as fun, and the playground is kind of lame (they did update the playground last year so it is better now). My point being is that the campground has been kept up and is about the same as when I was younger but as time goes on my memories of it get better and better and I put them on this pedestal only to have reality bring them down. I still take my family there because as a family we love the experience and my son "loves" going there. Now, I believe long term Disney goers have done the same thing. Going in our childhood or early adulthood created memories that we put on the pedestal and everything now fails in comparison. Personally, we have only been going to Disney for just under 15 years and I can honestly say I don't see where things have gotten worse. Have things changed? Sure they have, they need to. If they didn't make changes and add new things then people would not have a reason to go back. Do we hate it when they take away some classic rides? Yes, but its life. People were irate when Maelstrom closed, I had been to Disney 8 times and had never ridden it. I rode it just before they closed it and left the ride saying "I can see why they are closing that". Sometimes you just have to let go.

As for hiring "foreigners", I think Disney has a responsibility to hire people from the countries that the guests are visiting from. A large percentage of the visitors are not from the states and Disney needs to accommodate all of their guests. On the same line, Disney's study abroad program is huge both here and around the world and if Disney didn't recruit from elsewhere they would not have enough employees for the parks to run. The work ethic of vast percentage of Americans leaves a little to be desired but that is a topic for a different thread.

 

[POLY LOVER]

Well said. I totally agree, except with one thing, that "this is the world we live in now". That is what they would want you to believe. But it is not the world you live in. It is the America you live in.

Sorry to get all serious here, and dramatic!, but then, we are allowed a few adult threads now and then. In a rather staggering scientific finding by the 2015 economics Nobel laureate that is quickly getting famous, it emerges that (white) middle class Americans have a fast rising mortality rate, and that the cause is not obesity rates, or any epidemic disease, but...the attack on their social and economic stability. And it is not a rise of merely academic interest. No, half a million deaths are attributed to it. There is nothing like it anywhere else in the developed world, where, as one would expect, mortality rates keep dropping at a steady pace.

Remember how the mortality rate of Russians skyrocketed when the Soviet Union collapsed? Same thing. America's middle class really is under siege, really is being destroyed, to the point where the world could ask if this is not a humanitarian disaster. It's killed as many people as the aids epidemic.

Americans are taught that economic stability is a purely personal matter, with personal causes. But it is not. Millions of American families are under attack, their jobs being taken from them, their husbands succumbing to alcohol abuse, the wives falling prey to depression. Half a million have died, leaving countless broken families. Many more suffer from health and mental health problems. Maybe Americans should take a stand and telll their corporations where to stuff it.

http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...ed-white-americans-due-epidemic-drugs-alcohol

And remember this is being done by good old flag waving American companys usually due to greed. They make great profits but just want more. How much is enough?

 

[Andrew C]

I sure am glad I picked the right company to work for!

To the OP though...hopefully one day you will be able to return.

 

[danyoung56]

I still found WDW to be thoroughly enjoyable, and we have every intention of going back again and again. To each his own, I suppose.

This type of discussion reminds me of a situation years ago, back in the USENET days. I was getting ready to visit DL after a long absence, and Al Lutz was going on and on about how terrible everything was these days at DL. Trash was everywhere, maintenance was horrible, the park looked like a total dump, etc. I was a little nervous about all of this, but when I walked under the train tracks you know what I found? DL was just as amazing as it ever was. If I looked hard I could find the problems Al was talking about, but they just didn't rise to the level of overwhelming my enjoyment of the place.

And I see the same thing here. If someone is so down on WDW and the Disney company that they want to boycott the place, more power to 'em. But I'll still enjoy my visits, and my plan of retiring in Orlando and driving boats for Disney is still right on track!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

This type of discussion reminds me of a situation years ago, back in the USENET days. I was getting ready to visit DL after a long absence, and Al Lutz was going on and on about how terrible everything was these days at DL. Trash was everywhere, maintenance was horrible, the park looked like a total dump, etc. I was a little nervous about all of this, but when I walked under the train tracks you know what I found? DL was just as amazing as it ever was. If I looked hard I could find the problems Al was talking about, but they just didn't rise to the level of overwhelming my enjoyment of the place.

You do realize that park leadership at the time was resposible for guests getting injured (and in one case killed), right?

""Our own analysis found that the accident was caused by incorrectly performed maintenance tasks required by Disneyland policy and procedures that resulted in a mechanical failure," park spokesperson Leslie Goodman told the L.A. Times."

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=1389

Things WERE terrible, regardless of what you or other Disney fans thought at the time. There is a reason why after this incident (and a string of unsuccessful new offerings) management and practices were changed.

 

[Raineman]

As someone who has only visited WDW twice in my 42 years on this planet, the concept of visiting WDW so many times that the negative aspects are going to prevent you from visiting again is staggering. If you are someone who will probably only experience WDW a handful of times in your lifetime, you tend to remember only the positives about each visit, and the negatives do not hinder your enjoyment or taint your memories. The first time I visited The Mouse was in 1990, the second time was last year. Alot of change at WDW in that time-was some of it change for the worse? Definitely, but I didn't notice most of them, mainly because all of my memories were older, positive memories. In a way, I'm almost glad that I have never been in a position to be a regular at WDW, so that the novelty (or pixie dust) has never and will never wear off.

 

[Ben_since_1971]

As an IT person myself I appreciate your stance. I will say something however, that WDW is the last company on earth to do this. Everyone their size and many sizes smaller has already done the outsourcing and to levels greater than WDW did. You would stop doing business with every other corporation by now if you honored this across the board. All the household names and lesser ones all have outsourced IT.

This is why I recently switched careers. Outsourcing was killing opportunities for the consulting company I worked for. Now I am a BSA working for a company that recently went through an outsourcing. It is nothing new. I don't like it, but it is how it is.

That said - I can understand the OP's feelings. We all have our breaking points. While I am not crazy about some of the decisions (business and park wise) they have made over the past several years, I still cannot think of another place I would rather spend my big vacation at. I just hope I never get to that point.

 

[rob0519]

We've visited WDW 24-30 times in the last 20 years. In my opinion I have seen the decline in the quality and offerings of the parks, the food, the resorts and the merchandise while watching prices rise dramatically more than the cost of living. I've watched the crowds go from horrible in the summer, to horrible all year round. More and more resorts and DVCs are being built, while the Disney marketing machine works it magic on domestic, but lately more and more foreign visitors. Until management can find a way to physically almost double the size of the MK or provide a park to draw significant numbers away, the overcrowding will never change.

There is still no other resort like WDW on this planet. The problem is the rest of the planet has figured that out. Needing to book rooms 12-16 months in advance, fight for dining reservations 180 days in advance and finally fight for attraction ride times 60 days in advance has taken most of the magic, relaxation and fun out of the experience for me. This is my opinion. I'm not trying to speak for anyone else.

After our last trip in July, I really thought that would be it for us for a while. My family, however , does not share my sentiments and we will be back later this month for a short 3 night stay at Saratoga Springs. So be careful if you want to say you are done with WDW. If you are a regular visitor the place gets in your blood and no matter how hard to try to get out, they somehow manage to pull you back in.

 

[danyoung56]

You do realize that park leadership at the time was resposible for guests getting injured (and in one case killed), right?

It's interesting to me that you talk about "park leadership at the time", when I didn't give a time at all. The incidents you referred to (I assume you're talking about the guy killed at the Mark Twain docking) happened much later than the time I was talking about, which was probably mid-80's.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

Your own very mature responses lead me to believe you are less than worldly wise and know little to nothing of how the grown up people world works my dear.



Hey copcarguy - those are some VERY interesting observations...Kudos!

meanwhile - I think I smell TROLL !!

 

[ParentsOf4]

It's interesting to me that you talk about "park leadership at the time", when I didn't give a time at all. The incidents you referred to (I assume you're talking about the guy killed at the Mark Twain docking) happened much later than the time I was talking about, which was probably mid-80's.

Up through the early 1990s, WDW and DLR quality was topnotch; certainly the industry's best and head-and-shoulders above the rest.

That began to change in the early 1990s as Michael Eisner and Frank Wells began to seriously pressure Parks & Resorts leadership to improve operating margin. Still, Disney theme parks remained best-in-class throughout the decade.

Insiders generally view the turning point to be when Paul Pressler was first placed in charge of DLR and then, later, all of Parks & Resorts at the turn of the century. That's when the segment's management philosophy changed from "best-in-class" to "good enough".

The problem with a "good enough" philosophy is that, every year, "good enough" is just a fraction worse than last year's "good enough".

Most corporations decline by degree until there's a relatively sudden realization by the customer that the value is just not there anymore. In business, it's perhaps the most difficult line to define. Most companies trip over it. In hindsight the line seems obvious. However, before that, it's "business as usual" for most executives.

Unfortunately, once that tipping point is reached, once a company's reputation is poisoned in the eyes of the consumer, it's extremely difficult to recover.

Disney has overstepped in the past; it will overstep in the future. It's a question of when.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's interesting to me that you talk about "park leadership at the time", when I didn't give a time at all. The incidents you referred to (I assume you're talking about the guy killed at the Mark Twain docking) happened much later than the time I was talking about, which was probably mid-80's.

Was Al Lutz really posting online articles in the 80s? You mentioned his name and criticism of Disney which became synonymous during the Paul Pressler/Cynthia Harris years, which is what I assumed you were talking about. The article I quoted was about the death on BTMRR, another harmful accident that happed on their watch.

 

[danyoung56]

I can't give you exact dates, but this was back in the USENET days in a forum called REC.ARTS.DISNEY.PARKS. I'm pretty sure it was sometime in the 80's, while the incidents you were mentioning happened in the 90's, I believe. I do recall that maintenance at the time was under a guy named T. Irby, who was notorious for his deep cutbacks of hours and budgets to keep things running. He was pretty much directly responsible for the Mark Twain incident, as his cutbacks in maintenance caused the wood rot which eventually led to a mooring cleat ripping off and smacking a guy in the head, killing him.

 

[DManRightHere]

As for someone who has had high hopes for Disney World and amazing memories, a Disney regular been a member of WDWmagic and other Disney forums for nearly 6 years, complaining and posting about past attractions and ones that have left as long ago as the 90's but still return every year for the nostalgia that has completely changed my life I'm sad to say that I am no longer returning to Disney World. I took my last sad bittersweet walk thru the parks for one last goodbye.
The reason for this is not only the jacked up prices of the parks and lowering the quality of them... Its the micro managing, treatment of workers and nothing against foreigners but the fact they hired foreigners to save money and let go the existing workers who have been here their whole lives. This is not Walt Disney's dream and I can't support or put my money into a place that I have no moral respect for. That's just a few things on my list. You can lock or delete this thread, It was great talking Disney Parks with all of you and I wish you all many great trips and memories to Disney World. Ill always be down for the classic attraction threads and watching martins vids. Unfortunately I'm going to stand up for what I believe in and I will not set foot in a Disney Park until things change.

Did anyone see the PBS special on Walt Disney? I only saw the first part, but he was not about fairness to all employees.

Regarding to the OP. I like you're taking a stand. The more people unhappy with WDW and taking money elsewhere, the more WDW will notice. I do believe things are changing and should be pretty great in 5-8 years and that is IF a new major attraction is added/replaced to Epcot. I do like where things are going, but we'll have to see if it's as great as WDW says.

 

[Tom P.]

Was Al Lutz really posting online articles in the 80s?

I can't speak to the actual posts, but @danyoung56 referred to the conversations taking place on USENET. USENET's heyday actually was during the 80's. By the early 90's, commercial services such as AOL and CompuServe were really more dominant and by the late 90's, the Web had really taken hold.

 

[copcarguyp71]

I see via the post above from @Pixie VaVoom that I am unable to see anywhere or quote from that little miss @MinnieWaffles has chosen to block me for sharing the truth just like the immature person that my post on page one with some of her many child like responses clearly exposed. I am so glad she showed her true colors and while she may be the 21 years old that she claims her maturity level is certainly well below that...probably from living in denial her whole life. The only troll here sweetie is you because instead of intelligent discussion you resort to infantile name calling immediately. Look back over my posts over the past 7+ years and 3200 posts and I do not think you will see me calling anyone names or disrespecting others opinions simply because they do not agree with my own.

Oh well. back to the discussion at the adult table...

 

[GVentola]

My thoughts on this: I think why some people write angry replies is they are made to feel guilty, like because you gave up Disney that they, too, are obligated to quit something they love very much, but they're not gonna do it, so they lash out at you. It's like when I was in high school, and I refused to watch an R rated movie in class. Other students were mad at me, but I didn't demand they join me in not watching. I didn't mind at all if they watched. I was ashamed of Disney when I first heard the news about the fired IT workers. It is horrible; there's no getting around that. But I get a regular e-mail called MouseMail, and it gives news about all the non-profit and charity work Disney and its employees are doing. Mind you, I don't agree with all of the causes, but it's still good to hear that the good and the bad of Disney balances out.
If you really want Disney to notice your personal boycott, may I suggest you also write Disney Guest Relations and tell them you're not coming anymore and why. They should take notice then. I once wrote a letter complaining about a bad evening I had at Disney-MGM Studios (as it was called back then), and they wrote back saying they were sorry.

 

[wendysue]

As for someone who has had high hopes for Disney World and amazing memories, a Disney regular been a member of WDWmagic and other Disney forums for nearly 6 years, complaining and posting about past attractions and ones that have left as long ago as the 90's but still return every year for the nostalgia that has completely changed my life I'm sad to say that I am no longer returning to Disney World. I took my last sad bittersweet walk thru the parks for one last goodbye.
The reason for this is not only the jacked up prices of the parks and lowering the quality of them... Its the micro managing, treatment of workers and nothing against foreigners but the fact they hired foreigners to save money and let go the existing workers who have been here their whole lives. This is not Walt Disney's dream and I can't support or put my money into a place that I have no moral respect for. That's just a few things on my list. You can lock or delete this thread, It was great talking Disney Parks with all of you and I wish you all many great trips and memories to Disney World. Ill always be down for the classic attraction threads and watching martins vids. Unfortunately I'm going to stand up for what I believe in and I will not set foot in a Disney Park until things change.

Awesome, good for you. We just had our last trip 3 weeks ago. They already sent us another pin code for Jan. through June 7, which I promptly deleted and I am ok now with not going back. I agree with all that you said along with a few more things I won't get into. I still enjoy checking the magic site occasionally, but have no desire to go back to Disney. It's not just us, but 7 other family members and our neighbors that used to go with us, so that is quite a tidy sum of money that will go elsewhere.

 

[disney4life2008]

While i do not agree with many of the changes. I see no shortage of people staying on property, spending money, and using their hard earned money at the world. Kudos for standing up.