Is WDI capable of making a dark right like Universal?

[RiversideBunny]

What is a 'dark' ride?

In Las Vegas, dark means there is no show that day.

If it means a scary ride, then Tower of Terror, the Haunted Mansion, Dinosaour, and even Snow White's Scary Adventures would qualify.

Tks.

 

[PurpleDragon]

I think the big issue here is Uni makes rides for teens and adults, while Disney makes rides for kids and families. So given the themes and characters rides are based on, Disney will never have rides on the same lines as Uni, simply because Uni rides are not meant for the whole family. Disney refuses to make attractions that are not kid friendly, and when they do they close them down *cough*cough* AE *cough*cough*, which sux.

 

[disneysroyal411]

I think the big issue here is Uni makes rides for teens and adults, while Disney makes rides for kids and families. So given the themes and characters rides are based on, Disney will never have rides on the same lines as Uni, simply because Uni rides are not meant for the whole family. Disney refuses to make attractions that are not kid friendly, and when they do they close them down *cough*cough* AE *cough*cough*, which sux.

HAH! That was meant for the brave of heart versus everyone IMHO!

 

[misterID]

I am not arguing the merits of these rides, especially compared to the Universal rides, because I've never done Universal.

I was responding to a previous post that stated Disney was only relying on it's reputation and not innovating. Whether you like the rides I mentioned or not, they are innovative. Disney reportedly spent $100 million dollars on M:S, and it does things no other rides does. Soarin' is an old idea, but with many new twists. The R'n'R pioneered the idea of putting a soundtrack on a roller coaster. EE takes the rider forward and backward and before his problems the Yeti was an awesome effect. TSMM is a massive leap forward in combining a ride with a game.

You may not like these rides, but you cannot say, as the post I was responding to did, that Disney is just sitting back and no longer innovating.

Maybe I'm being nitpicky here, but I don't think putting a music soundtrack on a ride as really revolutionary in themepark attractions. M:S is okay and I'm not saying the centrifuge isn't a cool idea, even the idea for the ride, I'm just not impressed with it. That's up to the rider, though. And TSM... Seriously, I don't get how this is such a huge "leap" in attractions or gaming. Its a fun ride, but c'mon. And Soarin... Yeah, cool ride, nowhere near innovative.

And yeah, I do think TDO is riding their past accomplishments as an excuse not to create innovative attractions. But WDI is planning innovative things all the time. Their ideas justa aren't getting used. :/

 

[Tigerace81]

How is EE and Midway Mania not even close to Spiderman? They are at least a ride. Spiderman is a dark ride with little effort put into it. The walls are on rolling screens and you can see the rollers and everything from the ride. Theres no special effects, and from what I remember, you get squirted with water once I believe. Other then that wheres the themeing? Its in the queue.

EE is not only a state of the art roller coaster that changes direction twice, its also the first and only coaster that has a quiet lift hill. Plus with all the complex effects you should expect problems since things like this have never been done before. Midway Mania is better then Spiderman because hey at least you have something to do instead of watching boring effects and a poorly made ride.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I think the big issue here is Uni makes rides for teens and adults, while Disney makes rides for kids and families. So given the themes and characters rides are based on, Disney will never have rides on the same lines as Uni, simply because Uni rides are not meant for the whole family. Disney refuses to make attractions that are not kid friendly, and when they do they close them down *cough*cough* AE *cough*cough*, which sux.

TOTAL rubbish.

Again... See Pooh's Hunny Hunt in TDL. That's amazing, and built for children of all ages.

WDI could do it, if they had the money. That's it, end of story.

Well... Technically, that's not the end of the story. Because then they'd have to MAINTAIN it. Which we all know WDW has issues with. A huge part of what makes Pooh so great is that every single little effect that WDI came up with and designed and built into the ride WORKS. Daily.

TDL is the best maintained Disney park on the planet, and it shows.

 

[PurpleDragon]

TOTAL rubbish.

Again... See Pooh's Hunny Hunt in TDL. That's amazing, and built for children of all ages.

WDI could do it, if they had the money. That's it, end of story.

Well... Technically, that's not the end of the story. Because then they'd have to MAINTAIN it. Which we all know WDW has issues with. A huge part of what makes Pooh so great is that every single little effect that WDI came up with and designed and built into the ride WORKS. Daily.

TDL is the best maintained Disney park on the planet, and it shows.

Lemme add the caveat, "...in their American parks". Tastes in Japan differ from America, in the sense that parents here tend to baby their kids a heck of a lot more than anywhere else.

 

[stlbobby]

Maybe I'm being nitpicky here, but I don't think putting a music soundtrack on a ride as really revolutionary in themepark attractions. M:S is okay and I'm not saying the centrifuge isn't a cool idea, even the idea for the ride, I'm just not impressed with it. That's up to the rider, though. And TSM... Seriously, I don't get how this is such a huge "leap" in attractions or gaming. Its a fun ride, but c'mon. And Soarin... Yeah, cool ride, nowhere near innovative.

And yeah, I do think TDO is riding their past accomplishments as an excuse not to create innovative attractions. But WDI is planning innovative things all the time. Their ideas justa aren't getting used. :/

Of course you can belittle the accomplishments and make them sound smaller than they are but all of the things I cited are innovations in that they provide something new to the experience or are an entirely new experience.

TSMM took the concept of playing a game on a ride, which Disney introduced with Buzz, and took it to another level. The queue alone, with Mr. Potato Head talking to guests, is an innovation. If the gaming on a ride idea wasn't an innovation how come no one had it before Disney and now everybody does?

The concept of Soarin' is not new, but adding the smells and tilting the gliders were. Aren't those things by definition innovations?

EE is the first roller coaster to go backwards and forwards over different tracks. It is a concept that developers have wanted to do for decades, but EE was the first to accomplish it. Isn't building something no one else has been able to do an innovation?

The speakers on and lighting effects on R'n'R ushered in a new era of coaster design. If adding sound to the coaster experience wasn't innovative then why is everyone doing it?

You even admit M:S is something new.

Again just because you don't like these rides does not mean they aren't innovative. Disney is pushing the envelope and in the process pleasing their customers--the parks are booming and all the attractions I cited are constantly packed.

Again it is ridiculous to say Disney is just trading on their reputation when they have added so many new technologies and ideas in the past decade.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Mainly because this is boring but at the end of the day the Disney rides have many flaws many more severe that the criticisms levelled at Universal, but at the risk of sounding like a 74 mouthpiece, stick on the Disney logo and all of a sudden pixie dust prevails and flaws are ignored in an out pouring of brand loyalty.

But I expect the usual crap to be spouted by experts who have never set a foot in Universal or went in 19oatcake and were traumatised. I like both parks but as I have no family under 10 I dont know what Disney are doing to maintain my loyalty while Universal have upped their game now they have a more stable ownership.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Lemme add the caveat, "...in their American parks". Tastes in Japan differ from America, in the sense that parents here tend to baby their kids a heck of a lot more than anywhere else.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Pooh's Hunny Hunt isn't a violent, jarring thrill ride, by any means. Thrill wise, I'd put it on equal ground with the Barnstormer, or the Tea Cups at MOST. Actually, the Tea Cups are worse. Much worse.

 

[misterID]

Of course you can belittle the accomplishments and make them sound smaller than they are but all of the things I cited are innovations in that they provide something new to the experience or are an entirely new experience.

TSMM took the concept of playing a game on a ride, which Disney introduced with Buzz, and took it to another level. The queue alone, with Mr. Potato Head talking to guests, is an innovation. If the gaming on a ride idea wasn't an innovation how come no one had it before Disney and now everybody does?

The concept of Soarin' is not new, but adding the smells and tilting the gliders were. Aren't those things by definition innovations?

EE is the first roller coaster to go backwards and forwards over different tracks. It is a concept that developers have wanted to do for decades, but EE was the first to accomplish it. Isn't building something no one else has been able to do an innovation?

The speakers on and lighting effects on R'n'R ushered in a new era of coaster design. If adding sound to the coaster experience wasn't innovative then why is everyone doing it?

You even admit M:S is something new.

Again just because you don't like these rides does not mean they aren't innovative. Disney is pushing the envelope and in the process pleasing their customers--the parks are booming and all the attractions I cited are constantly packed.

Again it is ridiculous to say Disney is just trading on their reputation when they have added so many new technologies and ideas in the past decade.

I didn't belittle anything. I said they just weren't really that impressive, compared to what UNI was doing. And you keep bringing up EE going forwards and backwards as if Disney invented this, when coasters have been doing this since the 70's. I don't really get what you're saying here. But the YETI is awesome and disney AA's have always been fantastic... When they use them

I might be wrong, but I don't think Disney even built Rn'R. It is themed very, very well, though. But if you think differently about it being innovative, by all means, continue.

Soarin - Smells have been used in attratcions for a long time, so again, I'm not following you here. But, again, Soarin is a cool ride. Just nothing that I'd say was really pushing the boundries. But I think its a cool ride.

And MK is booming. The other parks aren't. That can change very quickly, though, if they let WDI do their jobs.

 

[Tigerace81]

I didn't belittle anything. I said they just weren't really that impressive, compared to what UNI was doing. And you keep bringing up EE going forwards and backwards as if Disney invented this, when coasters have been doing this since the 70's. I don't really get what you're saying here. But the YETI is awesome and disney AA's have always been fantastic... When they use them

I might be wrong, but I don't think Disney even built Rn'R. It is themed very, very well, though. But if you think differently about it being innovative, by all means, continue.

Actually, what coaster has changed directions twice other then Everest? No coaster has ever been built by Disney actually. Not even the Matterhorn.

Edit: I stand corrected, slightly. Disney designed all the BTM's at every park but were not built by Disney. So far the only Disney built coaster's is the Space mountain in DL, but it has since been rebuilt by Vekoma, and WDW's Space Mountain. The rest they designed the ride but nothing else.

 

[stlbobby]

I didn't belittle anything. I said they just weren't really that impressive, compared to what UNI was doing. And you keep bringing up EE going forwards and backwards as if Disney invented this, when coasters have been doing this since the 70's. I don't really get what you're saying here. But the YETI is awesome and disney AA's have always been fantastic... When they use them

I might be wrong, but I don't think Disney even built Rn'R. It is themed very, very well, though. But if you think differently about it being innovative, by all means, continue.

Soarin - Smells have been used in attratcions for a long time, so again, I'm not following you here. But, again, Soarin is a cool ride. Just nothing that I'd say was really pushing the boundries. But I think its a cool ride.

And MK is booming. The other parks aren't. That can change very quickly, though, if they let WDI do their jobs.

Coasters have gone back and forth on the same tracks for a while, but not forward and backward on different tracks.

Smells have been used on a few rides but not to to the extent the were on Soarin'. It definitely takes the wrap around theater experience to another level.

As far as R'n'R I'm not sure what you are even saying. All rides in all parks are built by contractors and subcontractors.

I will say this again. You are confusing impressive with innovative. You may not be impressed by what Disney is doing, but they are absolutely innovating. The first is an opinion the second is a fact. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it isn't new technology and ideas.

To your second point that only MK is growing, this website contradicts your assertion:

http://www.teaconnect.org/etea/2009report.pdf

It also shows that while all of the Disney Orlando parks experienced a bump in attendance Universal dropped precipitously. So Disney must be doing something right.

 

[imagineer boy]

Disney very much has the ability to even leave WWoHP in the dust, but like others have said, the imagineers havn't been allowed to.

 

[disneysroyal411]

I didn't belittle anything. I said they just weren't really that impressive, compared to what UNI was doing. And you keep bringing up EE going forwards and backwards as if Disney invented this, when coasters have been doing this since the 70's. I don't really get what you're saying here. But the YETI is awesome and disney AA's have always been fantastic... When they use them

I might be wrong, but I don't think Disney even built Rn'R. It is themed very, very well, though. But if you think differently about it being innovative, by all means, continue.

Soarin - Smells have been used in attratcions for a long time, so again, I'm not following you here. But, again, Soarin is a cool ride. Just nothing that I'd say was really pushing the boundries. But I think its a cool ride.

And MK is booming. The other parks aren't. That can change very quickly, though, if they let WDI do their jobs.

We could have avoided this whole fight if you just would have said this.

 

[Tigerace81]

To clear all issues I'll post the links to RCDB's pages on the coasters:

WDW:

AK:

Everest: http://rcdb.com/2389.htm

Primeval Whirl: http://rcdb.com/1566.htm

Primeval Whirl: http://rcdb.com/1868.htm

DHS:

RNR: http://rcdb.com/560.htm

MK:

Barnstormer: http://rcdb.com/274.htm

BTMR: http://rcdb.com/274.htm

SM: http://rcdb.com/274.htm

DLR:

Disneyland:

BTMR: http://rcdb.com/202.htm

Gadgets Go Coaster: http://rcdb.com/295.htm

Matterhorn: http://rcdb.com/200.htm

SM (Original): http://rcdb.com/201.htm

SM (New): http://rcdb.com/2491.htm

DCA:

California Screamin': http://rcdb.com/731.htm

Mulholland Madness: http://rcdb.com/732.htm

DLPR:

DLP:

BTMR: http://rcdb.com/956.htm

Casey Jr.: http://rcdb.com/1835.htm

Indiana Jones: http://rcdb.com/957.htm

SM: http://rcdb.com/959.htm

DLP - Studios:

Crush's Coaster: http://rcdb.com/3306.htm

RC Racer: http://rcdb.com/1170.htm

RNR: http://rcdb.com/1444.htm


You see the theme.

 

[stlbobby]

I totally forgot about MILF and TT. These are totally innovative. The ability to have animated characters interact in real time with an audience is brand new technology.

This is an innovation.

Everyone will now say how lame they think these attractions are, but the technology behind them is amazing and cutting edge.

 

[misterID]

For Godsakes...

Who cares about who built the rollercoasters? Seriously... They are all well themed. How many times have I said that? I thought that people were saying R'n'R was disney being innovated and I don't see it in the slightest. Because a soundtrack on a coaster is not being innovative, I only assumed you were talking about the coaster itself.

I'm not downloading that file, so I have no idea what its about or who its by. There was a debate about attendance yesterday and we had the figures and DHS, EPCOT and AK are nowhere near MK. And are actually down in attendance.

MILF is innovative. And yes, it's still lame. TT ride system is cool. But they are nowhere near Spider Man. That is my opinion. I even stated about M:S that I just don't like the ride and I'm not impressed with it.

We could have avoided this whole fight if you just would have said this.

What are you talking about? I said that in my first post in this thread. Some of you act like someone slapped your girlfriend when anyone criticizes disney in any way.

 

[stlbobby]

For Godsakes...

Who cares about who built the rollercoasters? Seriously... They are all well themed. How many times have I said that? I thought that people were saying R'n'R was disney being innovated and I don't see it in the slightest. Because a soundtrack on a coaster is not being innovative, I only assumed you were talking about the coaster itself.

I'm not downloading that file, so I have no idea what its about or who its by. There was a debate about attendance yesterday and we had the figures and DHS, EPCOT and AK are nowhere near MK. And are actually down in attendance.

MILF is innovative. And yes, it's still lame. TT ride system is cool. But they are nowhere near Spider Man. That is my opinion. I even stated about M:S that I just don't like the ride and I'm not impressed with it.



What are you talking about? I said that in my first post in this thread. Some of you act like someone slapped your girlfriend when anyone criticizes disney in any way.

You brought up the point on who built the coasters.

The debate was about Disney innovation and just because you don't understand what an innovation is doesn't mean it isn't innovative. Disney was the first to put a soundtrack on a roller coaster. Doing it first is the very definition of innovation. Now it is standard practice.

The file comes from the non-profit organization Themed Entertainment Associates. They are an impartial industry association. Where their figures come from is all laid out in the report and it is discussed here on this thread:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=576729

On page 6 of the thread are some other attendance figures. These and every other site I have seen show all the WDW parks are up while the industry as a whole is faltering.

The raw number of people attending MK is way higher than the other parks, but your original point was that attendance was falling at DHS, EPCOT, and AK and all these sources show that is not the case.

But if you want to just deny the facts and decide that attendance is down I suppose there is no way to convince you otherwise.

I never said any of these things were better than Spiderman. That was never my contention. I have never been to Universal, as I said, so I have no basis for comparison.

What I am refuting is the idea that Disney is sitting on their laurels and not adding anything new or innovative to the parks.

I have cited several examples that prove how they are innovating. They might not be designing and building things you like but they are building popular rides that change the game.

Finally, I am not upset you have a poor opinion of of Disney that is your prerogative. What I get upset about is when people say things that are patently untrue and then continue to defend their falsehoods with poor rhetoric, deny facts, attempt to misdirect the argument, and just repeat the same lame points over and over.

And when all else fails they personally attack people.

 

[yensid67]

I believe Disney can, but they just dont seem to be in the business of doing that anymore. It seems most things in recent years lack the ambition and originallity that made Disney Theme Parks such an outstanding brand. When I think of Epcot's origninal ambitions and elaborate attractions, and compare it with the new experiences on the very same property, I notice a disturbing trend.

Instead of ambition to create the most emersive experience, I see more cost efficient watered down experiences that pale in comparison to the scale that once exsisted. Disney Theme Parks have become a strong enough brand that they no longer have to focus on 'wowing' there customers. Instead Disney seems to rely on its historic reputation and less on continuing to build on it. Of course this is only my opinion.

I wonder what Walt would think of the Disney Operation of present-day compared to when he was alive and in control? I wonder what he would have done if he would have lived to be 100 years old and what changes he would have made to make Disney the top notch destination that it use to be!
I truly love Disney and the brand, but I have seen over the years, since 1999, how the imagination and fantasy and dreams have been ignored for a cheaper route to do things! If Universal can do a dark ride or new approaches to "WOW" guests, then it should be no competition for Disney!
Disney invented the modern day theme park, its shameful and in total disrespect of the Disney name that the executives have left the magic end over the years!
I will always have a love for Disney no matter what direction the imaginations go, but I will have a void in my heart of how it use to be when I worked at the MK and Epcot in 1998-1999. That year totally changed my life and how i look at life itself!

And now a note to the imagineers:

"LISTEN TO YOUR GUESTS AND WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE AND THEN USE THE INFORMATION TO MAKE US BELIEVE AGAIN THAT DREAMS REALLY DO COME TRUE. WHEN YOU WISH UPON A STAR YOU REMEMBER THE MAGIC
FANTASY AND IMAGINATION THAT LIES WITHIN ALL OF US!"