Is WDI capable of making a dark right like Universal?

[disneysroyal411]

What are you talking about? I said that in my first post in this thread. Some of you act like someone slapped your girlfriend when anyone criticizes disney in any way.

Well I didn't see this first post, and no I have criticized Disney. I wasn't trying to scold/yell at you in that post. I was saying it in a like "why didn't you say this in the first place" type of way, which apparently you did I just didn't see.

 

[disneysroyal411]

Finally, I am not upset you have a poor opinion of of Disney that is your prerogative. What I get upset about is when people say things that are patently untrue and then continue to defend their falsehoods with poor rhetoric, deny facts, attempt to misdirect the argument, and just repeat the same lame points over and over.

And when all else fails they personally attack people.

Hehe, I think a lot of people do that on this sight and especially so far in this thread. I know I've done it now. :ROFLOL:

 

[Kamikaze]

While it may be overrated, theres no denying that Spiderman is, to this day, more impressive than everything WDW has offered since its debut.

Spiderman doesn't impress me at all. Its very akin to Dinosaur, only with 3D instead of live action. Both are extremely overrated.

 

[marni1971]

Spiderman is a dark ride with little effort put into it. The walls are on rolling screens and you can see the rollers and everything from the ride. Theres no special effects, and from what I remember, you get squirted with water once I believe. Other then that wheres the themeing?

You been on the same Spiderman everyone else has? The show scene walls are static, physical 3D sets. The only `rolling` is during the ascent sequence - and they are stacked (very cleverly), not rolled. There are many physical effects from water to flame to smoke. It has the cleverest, most immersive Polarising 3D projection system for a moving ride. Several times. And a ride vehicle so clever it may only be eclipsed by a Kuka. It leaves the EMV way behind (sadly).

 

[Tigerace81]

You been on the same Spiderman everyone else has? The show scene walls are static, physical 3D sets. The only `rolling` is during the ascent sequence - and they are stacked (very cleverly), not rolled. There are many physical effects from water to flame to smoke. It has the cleverest, most immersive Polarising 3D projection system for a moving ride. Several times. And a ride vehicle so clever it may only be eclipsed by a Kuka. It leaves the EMV way behind (sadly).

It was a hardly thrilling ride and yes during the ascent. If you look you will see what im talking about. The ride has nothing going for it other then the queue.

 

[misterID]

You brought up the point on who built the coasters.

I answered this already. Not repeating myself again.

The debate was about Disney innovation and just because you don't understand what an innovation is doesn't mean it isn't innovative. Disney was the first to put a soundtrack on a roller coaster. Doing it first is the very definition of innovation. Now it is standard practice.

This discussion was not about Disney being innovative. I actually had it in my post before taking it out that they accomplished this "innovation" lol with SM, but I didn't want to continue such a ridiculous argument.

But if you want to just deny the facts and decide that attendance is down I suppose there is no way to convince you otherwise.

From what I know Disney does not reveal official attendance figures for individual parks, which got me in trouble yesterday! But I'm very glad that the 1% +/- estimates that I've read about in the last 2 days is all the three other parks get. There is a vast difference in attendance between the parks.

I never said any of these things were better than Spiderman. That was never my contention. I have never been to Universal, as I said, so I have no basis for comparison.

So, maybe this is the WHOLE PROBLEM, since this was the topic that was being discussed.

What I am refuting is the idea that Disney is sitting on their laurels and not adding anything new or innovative to the parks.

And we were discussing their innovative attractions compared to UNI. Not if Disney is/isn't innovative, which they most certainly are. But some of you get your panties in a bunch whenever someone says anything about another park having something better than Disney and it obviously causes you not to read what is actually being discussed.

I have cited several examples that prove how they are innovating. They might not be designing and building things you like but they are building popular rides that change the game.

Finally, I am not upset you have a poor opinion of of Disney that is your prerogative. What I get upset about is when people say things that are patently untrue and then continue to defend their falsehoods with poor rhetoric, deny facts, attempt to misdirect the argument, and just repeat the same lame points over and over.

Get over yourself. You were adding your opinion, as was I. Not fact. I do think that DISNEY IS INNOVATIVE. I don't agree with some of the attractions. But that wasn't the topic I was discussing. You were just angry I didn't agree with you. Sorry.

And I don't have a poor opinion of Disney. Again, it helps to read. I have a big problem with TDO. That's it.

And when all else fails they personally attack people.

Cry me a river. That was far from a personal attack.

 

[stlbobby]

I answered this already. Not repeating myself again.



This discussion was not about Disney being innovative. I actually had it in my post before taking it out that they accomplished this "innovation" lol with SM, but I didn't want to continue such a ridiculous argument.



From what I know Disney does not reveal official attendance figures for individual parks, which got me in trouble yesterday! But I'm very glad that the 1% +/- estimates that I've read about in the last 2 days is all the three other parks get. There is a vast difference in attendance between the parks.




So, maybe this is the WHOLE PROBLEM, since this was the topic that was being discussed.



And we were discussing their innovative attractions compared to UNI. Not if Disney is/isn't innovative, which they most certainly are. But some of you get your panties in a bunch whenever someone says anything about another park having something better than Disney and it obviously causes you not to read what is actually being discussed.



Get over yourself. You were adding your opinion, as was I. Not fact. I do think that DISNEY IS INNOVATIVE. I don't agree with some of the attractions. But that wasn't the topic I was discussing. You were just angry I didn't agree with you. Sorry.

And I don't have a poor opinion of Disney. Again, it helps to read. I have a big problem with TDO. That's it.



Cry me a river. That was far from a personal attack.

You need to go back and read this thread all the way through. Because The post I was responding to was strictly about Disney relying on their reputation and doing nothing innovative, it was not a comparison of what Disney is doing versus what Universal is doing. That was the argument. I clearly stated that several times. You still don't get it.

I also find it amazing that you know what I am feeling and why, without ever talking to me or apparently even reading what I am writing. Again I am not upset or angry at you or anyone else because they dislike Disney or they don't agree with me. What I was doing is setting the record straight. The original post I responded to, and several of your subsequent posts, were erroneous. I am not going to stand idly by while people throw out falsehoods as if they were facts to make their points.

You need to:

1. Read more carefully.

2. Learn the difference between fact and opinion.

3. Understand when you are personally attacking people, because you did it in the very post where you defend yourself against it.

Also my comment about personal attacks did not apply to just you, and wasn't even originally about you. Several other people attacked another poster personally and that did irritate me, especially when those making the attacks were completely wrong. Again stating their opinions as facts and trying to crush someone in the process.

 

[lazyboy97o]

TSMM took the concept of playing a game on a ride, which Disney introduced with Buzz, and took it to another level. The queue alone, with Mr. Potato Head talking to guests, is an innovation. If the gaming on a ride idea wasn't an innovation how come no one had it before Disney and now everybody does?

Toy Story Midway Mania! still lacks a bigger wow factor. It is video games on a track, the whole experience could have probably been done for cheaper without the track system. Men in Black: Alien attack took the Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin concept to the next level, with fully immersive, physical environments.

The concept of Soarin' is not new, but adding the smells and tilting the gliders were. Aren't those things by definition innovations?

Smells were done on Horizons.

The speakers on and lighting effects on R'n'R ushered in a new era of coaster design. If adding sound to the coaster experience wasn't innovative then why is everyone doing it?

Space Mountain: De la Terre à la Lune would be the innovation. Space Mountain at Disneyland also had its soundtrack added before Rock 'n' Rollercoaster opened.

 

[Rob562]

You been on the same Spiderman everyone else has? The show scene walls are static, physical 3D sets. The only `rolling` is during the ascent sequence - and they are stacked (very cleverly), not rolled. There are many physical effects from water to flame to smoke. It has the cleverest, most immersive Polarising 3D projection system for a moving ride. Several times. And a ride vehicle so clever it may only be eclipsed by a Kuka. It leaves the EMV way behind (sadly).

You left out the "squenching", varying perspective of the projections that takes the motion of the vehicle into account when the projected images were rendered so that the perspective of the projections matched the physical sets...

And also some effects that bridge both the physical and the projected images, like the fire escape ladder in the first scene. The ladder is mostly a physical prop on the set, that goes right up to the egde of the screen. The very end of the ladder is a projected image. Now, not only is the projection part of that ladder changing perspective as the car moves, the projection and physical ladder both dip down together as SPiderman jumps on the end of the ladder and spring-boards onto the hood of your vehicle...

Here's a behind-the-scenes video about the development of Spidey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PcLmfBUemI

And I'll agree with the others, Spiderman (not going to include Potter, as I haven't ridden it) is the best attraction in Central Florida, perhaps the U.S.

-Rob

 

[disneysroyal411]

Toy Story Midway Mania! still lacks a bigger wow factor. It is video games on a track, the whole experience could have probably been done for cheaper without the track system. Men in Black: Alien attack took the Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin concept to the next level, with fully immersive, physical environments.


Smells were done on Horizons.


Space Mountain: De la Terre à la Lune would be the innovation. Space Mountain at Disneyland also had its soundtrack added before Rock 'n' Rollercoaster opened.

Not every ride needs to have a wow factor to bring everyone back. I bet more then half the country would take either one a wow or a fun one. You can't beat TSM, it's just to fun. Plus, all they have to do is go back and make a new video and what not and then put it in. Also, MIB may have been the first or what not to use physical sets that came out or whatever but they didn't reimagine the idea really. Disney usually just does it better, but gets cuts because they do it to often or do to much. I think Disney has spoiled us a little bit by giving us something to look forward to every year and so when another park that has patiently waited for it's moment, we have to argue that that parks better. Please don't argue this harshly I'm just trying to state a fact, if you're gonna quote, just critique. I don't feel like being scolded virtually.

 

[Tom Morrow]

How is EE and Midway Mania not even close to Spiderman? They are at least a ride. Spiderman is a dark ride with little effort put into it. The walls are on rolling screens and you can see the rollers and everything from the ride. Theres no special effects, and from what I remember, you get squirted with water once I believe. Other then that wheres the themeing? Its in the queue.

EE is not only a state of the art roller coaster that changes direction twice, its also the first and only coaster that has a quiet lift hill. Plus with all the complex effects you should expect problems since things like this have never been done before. Midway Mania is better then Spiderman because hey at least you have something to do instead of watching boring effects and a poorly made ride.

In addition to being COMPLETELY wrong about Spiderman, like to the point that you should be ridiculed to no end...

Coasters such as Millennium Force at Cedar Point did the quiet lift hill several years before Everest. Also you can attribute Everest's quiet lift to Vekoma, not Disney - Vekoma built the Everest coaster, Disney built a fake mountain around it with a few special effects. Oh and complex special effects such as a bird on a stick, sound effects, and a video projection of the Yeti have never been done before huh?

And Toy Story Mania is absolutely in no way at all even CLOSE to the same league as Spiderman.

Honestly I would assume you are trolling, but this board is full of thick headed opinions such as yours.

 

[JT3000]

EE is the first roller coaster to go backwards and forwards over different tracks. It is a concept that developers have wanted to do for decades, but EE was the first to accomplish it. Isn't building something no one else has been able to do an innovation?

Imhotep would like to have a word with you. He's not a happy camper after reading this.

And to the guy bashing Spider-Man.... No offense, but you're certifiably insane. Are you taking any medications? If not, maybe you should.

 

[marni1971]

It was a hardly thrilling ride and yes during the ascent. If you look you will see what im talking about. The ride has nothing going for it other then the queue.

I`ll never agree with that.

 

[Tigerace81]

Coasters such as Millennium Force at Cedar Point did the quiet lift hill several years before Everest. Also you can attribute Everest's quiet lift to Vekoma, not Disney - Vekoma built the Everest coaster, Disney built a fake mountain around it with a few special effects. Oh and complex special effects such as a bird on a stick, sound effects, and a video projection of the Yeti have never been done before huh?.

Apparently you have no idea about roller coasters. MF uses a cable lift. The car comes down, attaches to the train and is lifted up the hill. Everest is the first roller coaster with a chain lift hill that doesnt make the click noise whent he train is moved up and over the anti-rollbacks. The ones on Everest were the first of their kind on a chain lift hill. Vekoma designed them so that if the train was to rollback the anti-rollbacks would raise up and catch the train.

And the yeti is the first of its kind in AA's.

 

[marni1971]

And the yeti is the first of its kind in AA's.

Broken? Nah. That`s happened before.

 

[Thrill Seeker]

Disney's thrill rides just don't compare to Universal's. The main reason is because Universal is willing to spend a fortune on the latest and greatest thrill ride technology while Disney would rather focus on family oriented interactive experiences. Let's compare the Top 6 (at least in my opinion) most inventive thrill rides at Disney with Universal.

Disney:
Tower of Terror
Rockin' Roller Coaster
Test Track
Mission: SPACE
Expedition: Everest
Dinosaur

Universal:
Spider-Man
Revenge of the Mummy
Forbidden Journey
Hollywood Rip, Ride Rockit
The Simpsons Ride
Dr. Doom's Fearfall

Now we compare each one to it's closest counterpart...

ToT vs Dr. Doom
RNRC vs HRRR
E:E vs Mummy
M:S vs Simpsons
Dinosaur vs Spider-Man
This last one isn't a fair comparison, but it's what I have left...
TT vs HPatFJ

Ok, so let's start from the top...

Tower of Terror is a highly immersive and advanced drop tower ride with extremely impressive theming and effects as well as a great storyline and a random drop sequence (at least normally). Dr. Doom's Fearfall is a generic drop tower ride with a comic book story told in the queue.

Result: No comparison needed, Tower of Terror wins by a landslide.

Rockin' Roller Coaster is a high speed coaster indoors featuring a 0 to 60 launch, a kickin' Aerosmith soundtrack, 2 loops and a corkscrew.

The Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit is an outdoor coaster featuring a huge incline, several interesting and unique maneuvers such as a non-inverted loop and the ability to select your own soundtrack and watch yourself ride it.

Result: I haven't ridden the Rockit yet (now that I am an annual passholder at Universal, you can bet I will next time I can), but from what I've seen it's actually nothing special. The music and recording aspects are cool, but RNRC is a better ride.

Expedition: Everest is a roller coaster with show scenes that includes a backwards sequence in the dark, some high speed drops and an encounter with the Yeti (when he's working)...

Revenge of the Mummy is a combination roller coaster dark ride that features a launch, lots of advanced special effects including a roof catching on fire, anamatronic figures, projection technology and much more.

Everest is a fun ride, but Mummy hands down wins this fight because of it's use of special effects and immersion factor. That and it's a better ride overall...

Mission: SPACE is a highly advanced simulator ride that sends guests into space using centrifuge technology to create G-Forces and turbulence.

The Simpsons Ride is a wacky, zany simulator ride where you join the cartoon family on their quest to escape Crustyland.

Result: Very different styles of simulator, very different techniques, but Mission: SPACE wins due to technology and theming...

Dinosaur is a rough time travel adventure where you'll encounter huge dinosaur anamatronics and lots of high speed bumps and turns along the way.

The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man is a turbulent fusion simulator dark ride using advanced 3-D projection technology as well as simulator movement to make guests feel like they's swinging with their favorite super hero.

Spider-Man is one of the best theme park rides ever built, so it wins pretty handily over Dinosaur, which is fun, but not nearly as amazing.

I can't really compare Test Track with Harry Potter because they are nothing like each other. That's the other thing, they are both unique rides because there isn't anything else really like them.

So there you have it. When Universal wins, they win because of building rides with new tech and combining two different ride concepts into one. Disney wins based on theming and because Universal's closest counterpart isn't anything special...

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

Disney's thrill rides just don't compare to Universal's. The main reason is because Universal is willing to spend a fortune on the latest and greatest thrill ride technology while Disney would rather focus on family oriented interactive experiences. Let's compare the Top 6 (at least in my opinion) most inventive thrill rides at Disney with Universal.

Disney:
Tower of Terror
Rockin' Roller Coaster
Test Track
Mission: SPACE
Expedition: Everest
Dinosaur

Universal:
Spider-Man
Revenge of the Mummy
Forbidden Journey
Hollywood Rip, Ride Rockit
The Simpsons Ride
Dr. Doom's Fearfall

Now we compare each one to it's closest counterpart...

ToT vs Dr. Doom
RNRC vs HRRR
E:E vs Mummy
M:S vs Simpsons
Dinosaur vs Spider-Man
This last one isn't a fair comparison, but it's what I have left...
TT vs HPatFJ

Ok, so let's start from the top...

Tower of Terror is a highly immersive and advanced drop tower ride with extremely impressive theming and effects as well as a great storyline and a random drop sequence (at least normally). Dr. Doom's Fearfall is a generic drop tower ride with a comic book story told in the queue.

Result: No comparison needed, Tower of Terror wins by a landslide.

Rockin' Roller Coaster is a high speed coaster indoors featuring a 0 to 60 launch, a kickin' Aerosmith soundtrack, 2 loops and a corkscrew.

The Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit is an outdoor coaster featuring a huge incline, several interesting and unique maneuvers such as a non-inverted loop and the ability to select your own soundtrack and watch yourself ride it.

Result: I haven't ridden the Rockit yet (now that I am an annual passholder at Universal, you can bet I will next time I can), but from what I've seen it's actually nothing special. The music and recording aspects are cool, but RNRC is a better ride.

Expedition: Everest is a roller coaster with show scenes that includes a backwards sequence in the dark, some high speed drops and an encounter with the Yeti (when he's working)...

Revenge of the Mummy is a combination roller coaster dark ride that features a launch, lots of advanced special effects including a roof catching on fire, anamatronic figures, projection technology and much more.

Everest is a fun ride, but Mummy hands down wins this fight because of it's use of special effects and immersion factor. That and it's a better ride overall...

Mission: SPACE is a highly advanced simulator ride that sends guests into space using centrifuge technology to create G-Forces and turbulence.

The Simpsons Ride is a wacky, zany simulator ride where you join the cartoon family on their quest to escape Crustyland.

Result: Very different styles of simulator, very different techniques, but Mission: SPACE wins due to technology and theming...

Dinosaur is a rough time travel adventure where you'll encounter huge dinosaur anamatronics and lots of high speed bumps and turns along the way.

The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man is a turbulent fusion simulator dark ride using advanced 3-D projection technology as well as simulator movement to make guests feel like they's swinging with their favorite super hero.

Spider-Man is one of the best theme park rides ever built, so it wins pretty handily over Dinosaur, which is fun, but not nearly as amazing.

I can't really compare Test Track with Harry Potter because they are nothing like each other. That's the other thing, they are both unique rides because there isn't anything else really like them.

So there you have it. When Universal wins, they win because of building rides with new tech and combining two different ride concepts into one. Disney wins based on theming and because Universal's closest counterpart isn't anything special...

If there was a "like" button for post, I would like yours a 1,000,000,000,000,000.

Your post made so much sense and you didn't let your "I'm a huge disney fan and every other park sucks" mind takeover. Let's face it Universal makes better thrill rides than Disney. They combine both with great thrill and great theming while disney relys heavily on the theming. Disney should focus on more rides that the public is wanting in these generations, THRILL RIDES. Not princes meet and greets, but THRILL RIDES. All that money going into FL could be used for a really needed thrill ride in any of the parks.

The girls need a ride in MK, fine build AUA, but a whole new million dollar section with a second dumbo and a bunch of meet and greets? Really?

 

[JT3000]

Tower of Terror is a highly immersive and advanced drop tower ride with extremely impressive theming and effects as well as a great storyline and a random drop sequence (at least normally). Dr. Doom's Fearfall is a generic drop tower ride with a comic book story told in the queue.

Result: No comparison needed, Tower of Terror wins by a landslide.

If Fear Fall is just a "generic drop tower" (it's actually a space shot), then why are you listing it as one of Universal's most "inventive" rides? So you can make an easy comparison that isn't entirely accurate? Fear Fall isn't even meant to be an E-ticket. You might as well compare Men in Black and Buzz Lightyear while you're at it.

Rockin' Roller Coaster is a high speed coaster indoors featuring a 0 to 60 launch, a kickin' Aerosmith soundtrack, 2 loops and a corkscrew.

The Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit is an outdoor coaster featuring a huge incline, several interesting and unique maneuvers such as a non-inverted loop and the ability to select your own soundtrack and watch yourself ride it.

Result: I haven't ridden the Rockit yet (now that I am an annual passholder at Universal, you can bet I will next time I can), but from what I've seen it's actually nothing special. The music and recording aspects are cool, but RNRC is a better ride.

lulz fail

Mission: SPACE is a highly advanced simulator ride that sends guests into space using centrifuge technology to create G-Forces and turbulence.

The Simpsons Ride is a wacky, zany simulator ride where you join the cartoon family on their quest to escape Crustyland.

Result: Very different styles of simulator, very different techniques, but Mission: SPACE wins due to technology and theming...

These rides have nothing in common. It would make a lot more sense to wait and compare Simpsons to Star Tours 2.

 

[Oddysey]

You need to go back and read this thread all the way through. Because The post I was responding to was strictly about Disney relying on their reputation and doing nothing innovative, it was not a comparison of what Disney is doing versus what Universal is doing. That was the argument. I clearly stated that several times. You still don't get it.

I also find it amazing that you know what I am feeling and why, without ever talking to me or apparently even reading what I am writing. Again I am not upset or angry at you or anyone else because they dislike Disney or they don't agree with me. What I was doing is setting the record straight. The original post I responded to, and several of your subsequent posts, were erroneous. I am not going to stand idly by while people throw out falsehoods as if they were facts to make their points.

You need to:

1. Read more carefully.

2. Learn the difference between fact and opinion.

3. Understand when you are personally attacking people, because you did it in the very post where you defend yourself against it.

Also my comment about personal attacks did not apply to just you, and wasn't even originally about you. Several other people attacked another poster personally and that did irritate me, especially when those making the attacks were completely wrong. Again stating their opinions as facts and trying to crush someone in the process.

What is most interesting to me is that you indicate that this poster lacks reading comprehension, but you are guilty of misinterpreting the original post that you had issue with.

I never said that Disney was no longer innovative, and you spend the entire thread arguing that they are. Of course they are still innovative. My original point was that the newer experiences specifically to Epcot are less ambitious in scale, less original and more focused on cost efficiency.

See JIYI that reduced the originals track and ride duration by 50%. See Horizons, a 15 minute experience that was reduced to rubble and replaced with a 5 minute experience in a building 1/4 of its original size. Both are examples of less ambition and cost efficiency.

See The Seas with Nemo in Friends as compared to the original sea base alpha. See El River De Tiempo which was a journey through the history and culture of Mexico, and was replaced with a wild goose chase to find an American animated character known as Donald Duck. Which I might add is the same wild goose chase we are on when trying to find Nemo. This is a lack of originality, and a cop out using characters instead of making a stand alone attraction that thrives on telling its own story. I could continue to make examples in other parks of lack of originality, but I digress.

Yes...Disney is still innovative, but in my opinion are less ambitious, focused more on cost efficiency, and lack the originality their experiences once encompassed.

 

[Testtrack321]

See El River De Tiempo which was a journey through the history and culture of Mexico...

We've hit the Twilight Zone here kids if we're starting to pull out El Rio as some sort of fantastic Epcot attraction.