Is WDI capable of making a dark right like Universal?

[Oddysey]

We've hit the Twilight Zone here kids if we're starting to pull out El Rio as some sort of fantastic Epcot attraction.

I never said it was a fantastic Epcot attraction. I said that the update with Donald was not very original. I brought the ride up exclusivley with regards to originallity.

 

[mp2bill]

What is a 'dark' ride?

In Las Vegas, dark means there is no show that day.

If it means a scary ride, then Tower of Terror, the Haunted Mansion, Dinosaour, and even Snow White's Scary Adventures would qualify.

Tks.

Ditto. I know ToT works largely off projections and peppers ghosts, but that's a great dark ride.

 

[misterID]

You need to go back and read this thread all the way through. Because The post I was responding to was strictly about Disney relying on their reputation and doing nothing innovative, it was not a comparison of what Disney is doing versus what Universal is doing. That was the argument. I clearly stated that several times. You still don't get it.

I also find it amazing that you know what I am feeling and why, without ever talking to me or apparently even reading what I am writing. Again I am not upset or angry at you or anyone else because they dislike Disney or they don't agree with me. What I was doing is setting the record straight. The original post I responded to, and several of your subsequent posts, were erroneous. I am not going to stand idly by while people throw out falsehoods as if they were facts to make their points.

You need to:

1. Read more carefully.

2. Learn the difference between fact and opinion.

3. Understand when you are personally attacking people, because you did it in the very post where you defend yourself against it.

Also my comment about personal attacks did not apply to just you, and wasn't even originally about you. Several other people attacked another poster personally and that did irritate me, especially when those making the attacks were completely wrong. Again stating their opinions as facts and trying to crush someone in the process.

Oddysey said nothing close to justify what you're going on about. He gave his opinion of what Disney was and what it is. You're the one who overreacted. And even at the end of his post he stated it was all his opinion. And he stated it in very polite and intelligent way.

No one disputed that Disney is innovative. I just disagreed with some, not even all, of your examples.

I went back in this thread and I saw nothing close to what you're describing. I have no idea who was being personally attacked.

Almost every word of your post is pure hypocrisy. I tried to answer you like a normal human being, but that didn't work, so, sorry, its not worth even trying anymore.

Re-read your 3 points and try to apply them to yourself, because you broke every one of them... Except the third, but you obviously don't know the difference. Have a nice day.

:wave:

 

[Rob562]

Apparently you have no idea about roller coasters. MF uses a cable lift. The car comes down, attaches to the train and is lifted up the hill. Everest is the first roller coaster with a chain lift hill that doesnt make the click noise whent he train is moved up and over the anti-rollbacks. The ones on Everest were the first of their kind on a chain lift hill. Vekoma designed them so that if the train was to rollback the anti-rollbacks would raise up and catch the train.

And the yeti is the first of its kind in AA's.

If you're going to try and call someone out on their lack of knowledge about coasters, you might want to make sure your own facts are true.

MF still has anti-rollbacks, only the lift method is different. The anti-rollbacks are Intamin's silent version. Even before MF, the other chain-lift Intamin hypercoasters had silent anti-rollbacks, including the three Superman Ride of Steel coasters.

But if you want to go even further back from there, Vekoma (manufacturer of Everest) developed their silent chainlift for their SLC (Suspended Looping Coaster), many of which have been operating since the mid-90's. Vekoma then used that technology for the lifts on Everest.

So while you *might* be able to get away with saying that Everest is the first Vekoma-built non-inverted silent lifthill (I'd have to double-check that one, though), it's certainly not the first silent lifthill, standard or inverted, chain-driven or otherwise.
Oh, and the switch tracks on Everest have their basis in the design from the switchtrack Vekoma uses to move trains on their SLCs to and from the storage track...

-Rob

 

[JWG]

To answer the thread title's question:

Yes, they are very CAPABLE, WDI does a fabulous job with blue sky ideas.
No, they won't green light such a project in the near term.

To be fair, this is the first change to Island's of Adventure in 10 years. And the recent Simpson's update replaced a ride that was nearly 20 years old.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Why should Disney top Universal? Why should Disney build state-of-the-art rides or immersive theming?


There's more money to be made from photo opportunities with celebrity princesses. :shrug:

 

[CDavid]

Disney should focus on more rides that the public is wanting in these generations, THRILL RIDES. Not princes meet and greets, but THRILL RIDES.

Consider the audience. While you or people you know may want more thrill rides, that doesn't mean everyone wants such attractions. Disney attracts more families - including children too young for height requirements and adults and seniors who are far less interested in riding something that flips you upside down or spins you around until you puke (if, indeed, they are not recommended to pass on thrill experiences for health reasons alone). Granted, teens and young adults may flock to 'thrill rides', but these are the same people who will probably be returning to Walt Disney World in 5-10 years with children of their own - and suddenly far more interested in that princess meet and greet than splitting up the family for attractions their children (and other family members) can't experience.

Disney excels when it creates attractions which are designed for all age groups (Spaceship Earth, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Haunted Mansion, The Little Mermaid, etc.). The extreme 'thrill ride' market should best be primarily left to Universal. This in no way excludes the occasional Disney thrill experience, such as the Tower of Terror, but in recent years many "big ticket" additions have been thrill rides (EE, Soarin', Mission:Space, etc.) at the expense of family experiences. That's a problem if a large portion of your audience either doesn't want them, or else would be just as happy with a more sedate ride experience.

 

[disneysroyal411]

I'm sorry but I'm just gonna pitch in as a non disney and non universal fan that Disney doesn't do super high thrill rides because they are not a Thrill park and don't plan on becoming it, so don't expect a new thrill ride over a new super themed ride often. Universal on the other hand is a thrill ride. Sure they put some aspects of theme into some of the rides, but the thrill mainly goes towards the main parts of the rides. You can disagree and I could be a little off, I'm not perfect and neither is anyone or anything really, but I got somewhat of truth in there.

 

[Thrill Seeker]

Consider the audience. While you or people you know may want more thrill rides, that doesn't mean everyone wants such attractions. Disney attracts more families - including children too young for height requirements and adults and seniors who are far less interested in riding something that flips you upside down or spins you around until you puke (if, indeed, they are not recommended to pass on thrill experiences for health reasons alone). Granted, teens and young adults may flock to 'thrill rides', but these are the same people who will probably be returning to Walt Disney World in 5-10 years with children of their own - and suddenly far more interested in that princess meet and greet than splitting up the family for attractions their children (and other family members) can't experience.

Disney excels when it creates attractions which are designed for all age groups (Spaceship Earth, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Haunted Mansion, The Little Mermaid, etc.). The extreme 'thrill ride' market should best be primarily left to Universal. This in no way excludes the occasional Disney thrill experience, such as the Tower of Terror, but in recent years many "big ticket" additions have been thrill rides (EE, Soarin', Mission:Space, etc.) at the expense of family experiences. That's a problem if a large portion of your audience either doesn't want them, or else would be just as happy with a more sedate ride experience.

Since when is Soarin' considered a thrill ride? There isn't really anything particularly thrilling about it. It's a simulator where you dangle and look at a cool panoramic view of California. It's very smooth, very calm, very relaxing. It only has a height requirement because of it''s ride system.

 

[Testtrack321]

Since when is Soarin' considered a thrill ride? There isn't really anything particularly thrilling about it. It's a simulator where you dangle and look at a cool panoramic view of California. It's very smooth, very calm, very relaxing. It only has a height requirement because of it''s ride system.

Believe it or not, some people consider it the non thrill seeker's thrill ride. Go figure.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Apparently you have no idea about roller coasters. MF uses a cable lift. The car comes down, attaches to the train and is lifted up the hill. Everest is the first roller coaster with a chain lift hill that doesnt make the click noise whent he train is moved up and over the anti-rollbacks. The ones on Everest were the first of their kind on a chain lift hill. Vekoma designed them so that if the train was to rollback the anti-rollbacks would raise up and catch the train.

And the yeti is the first of its kind in AA's.

Edit: what Rob562 said.

 

[LoriMistress]

 

[The Empress Lilly]

What a fantastic special effect. Makes for some great placemaking and immersive environment.


I take it the picture was taken at Universal instead of Disney then?

 

[Tigerace81]

If you're going to try and call someone out on their lack of knowledge about coasters, you might want to make sure your own facts are true.

MF still has anti-rollbacks, only the lift method is different. The anti-rollbacks are Intamin's silent version. Even before MF, the other chain-lift Intamin hypercoasters had silent anti-rollbacks, including the three Superman Ride of Steel coasters.

But if you want to go even further back from there, Vekoma (manufacturer of Everest) developed their silent chainlift for their SLC (Suspended Looping Coaster), many of which have been operating since the mid-90's. Vekoma then used that technology for the lifts on Everest.

So while you *might* be able to get away with saying that Everest is the first Vekoma-built non-inverted silent lifthill (I'd have to double-check that one, though), it's certainly not the first silent lifthill, standard or inverted, chain-driven or otherwise.
Oh, and the switch tracks on Everest have their basis in the design from the switchtrack Vekoma uses to move trains on their SLCs to and from the storage track...

-Rob

A sit down cable lift, and a Invert are completely different types and need their own types of technology. But I didnt know Everest was a Giga coaster? Maybe I missed that 300 ft drop somewhere?

 

[SMRT-1]

i think the real question here is if we have the technology to fix the title of this thread.

 

[Jerriko]

I know it is not a dark ride but Star Tours 2.0 looks to be the next big theme park ride.

 

[Rob562]

A sit down cable lift, and a Invert are completely different types and need their own types of technology. But I didnt know Everest was a Giga coaster? Maybe I missed that 300 ft drop somewhere?

*facepalm* That's not what I said, and you apparently don't know how these things work. "Hypercoaster" and "gigacoaster" were used simply to refer to Intamin's design. At no point did I say that EE was either of those. Plus, those are just Inatmin's buzz-words. A lifthill is a lifthill, regardless of what kind of coaster it is. It needs a means of propulsion, and a means of keeping the car from rolling backwards.

Guess I'm going to have to get more technical...

The physical means of pulling a coaster car up the hill, on both Intamin and Vekoma coasters (and pretty much any coaster for that matter, except perhaps pinch-wheel-motor lifts), are *separate* from the anti-rollback devices. They have nothing to do with each other. The cable or chain moves the train up the lift. That's all it does.

A traditional anti-rollback (the "clakety-clakety" kind) have what is essentially a short arm (called a "dog") hanging down under the cars. As it rolls up the hill, this arm drags along teeth in between the rails. It bounces along, making the distinctive noise. If the chain were to stop or break, the car would start to roll backwards, and this arm would then get jammed into the teeth, preventing further motion backwards.

Now, on silent lifthills, there is an added mechanism to the anti-rollback dogs (and it varies depending on application/manufacturer) that keeps the rollback dog lifted up out of the way while the car is in forward motion, at its designed lifthill speed. Most use some sort of magnetic flywheel to keep the dog up above the "teeth" in the track. But as soon as the train stops rolling forward, or starts rolling backward, that magnetic field goes away (because it was the motion of the train creating it in the first place) and the dog drops down, engaging the teeth.
The only time you get a clackety-clack is at the bottom and/or top of the lift where the speed of the train isn't constant. Between that and the slope changes of the track, the rollback dogs come in contact with the teeth.

Intamin used their silent lifthill technology on their CHAIN-DRIVEN, non-inverted lifthills dating back at least to 1999 with the opening of Superman at Darien Lake. In 2000 they opened Superman at Six Flags New England. There was one season early on in New England where the lifthill motor was running significantly slower than originally designed, and the rollback dogs weren't being held up high enough, making the loudest anti-rollback clacking noise you've ever heard. (Luckily it was fixed after a couple months)

A silent lifthill is not new, it's not groundbreaking. It's just that there aren't many of them out there.

-Rob

 

[Tigerace81]

For the love of god, I had one at my own home park, T2, and it wasnt designed the same way as EE's. Disney specifically asked for a new lift design.

 

[terp79]

Well I'm glad that someone realizes that WDI and the parks over use projections and screens. I keep telling my friend that Epcot should be called screencot. I think in the 80s and early 90s it was the latest craze, but anymore its a let down. I can watch a screen in my own house, why do I want to come to the parks to do it as well?!?! The hole intent was to take what we saw on screens at home and bring it to life....I guess sometimes you have to step backwards in order to move forwards. Makes since, we'd of never got world of color if not.

WDI can do soooo much better and they will. I think they just need to learn how to effectively work with a budget and really convince the money holders that their ideas are golden. Recently I caught a video of an imagineer talking about an upcoming project and I was shocked to see how monotone and unenthused they were. I was like really? Shouldn't you be hyping up the audience, getting us excited? I guess they can't be bothered.

I mean really how was WDI gonna compete with Harry Potter. Disney doesn't even have one franchise that is close to the selling power as Harry Potter. With the books, the films, and the fans....it was no brainer that Potter was going to outshine Disney and it did.

I just wonder what Disney has (property wise) that would create us fans to generate lines as seen on opening day of WWoHP? I can't think of anything. Disney's top property is the princesses....so yeah fantasyland forest is a no brainer but it's not gonna have lines forming around the 7 seas lagoon.

Possibly the suits will learn something from this summer and something about theme parks and the people who go to them!

 

[lazyboy97o]

For the love of god, I had one at my own home park, T2, and it wasnt designed the same way as EE's. Disney specifically asked for a new lift design.

This makes no sense. Why would Imagineering spend money designing or paying for the design of an entirely new silent anti-rollback system when the existing ones already work? It makes more sense that, like with the track, Expedition Everest was the first in-park implementation of new technology Vekoma had already developed and Disney purchased.

If Disney really did have a new system created it a perfect example of the waste within Imagineering that makes their projects so much more expensive than those of others in the themed entertainment business. This type of waste should not be applauded by fans, as that was resources used to duplicate technology already available elsewhere. It is this type of waste that makes the accountants and managers look at a project and question if the expense is justifiable and ultimately decide for something less ambitious, knowing the budget will probably be exceeded.