Is this really a service dog?

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't blame the people so much as the government, well, and the people -overall- for supporting it, and the ADA bill from the early 1990s. It did a lot of damage.

Before businesses actually did have handicap spaces and they gauged them to the handicap people visiting their business. Now we have large portions of a parking lot, which we all still pay for through increased prices, so that virtually no one parks there. Further, consider the handicap person rolling up to a Walmart or Mall or whatever.. It feels good for the rest of us to have them park close but what do you think is happening as soon as they enter those doors?? They're traversing the same huge mall/big store the rest of us are!

I could say the same thing about service animals before the ADA. You'd see the odd person with a service animal and, the majority of the time, people understood. Now? You can get your pet snake to be a service animal just because you're afraid to answer the phone (no.. I'm not kidding).

Government screwed this up with a "feel-good" law instead of just letting people/individuals work it out for themselves.

Consider all of the sidewalks that have to be sloped on the corners for wheelchairs that you never see using them. The last I heard those sloped corners were about $10K/pop.

Consider the harm it does to someone who is handicap but can't get a job because they could, even if they weren't going to - the risk is still there, require the business to pay $100Ks for special equipment.

Also consider all of the motels/hotels a few years back who were mandated to put in $20K lifts at the side of ever pool and hot tub just in case.

Look - I don't want these folks to have a bad time and, at the same time, I think it could be handled without legislation and if you got rid of government as the middle man then suddenly Disney is able to make reasonable choices about what is a legitimate service animal and what isn't. At the same time, you'll probably have a lot less people bucking the system just because they can.
so that virtually no one parks there.
Consider all of the sidewalks that have to be sloped on the corners for wheelchairs that you never see using them. The last I heard those sloped corners were about $10K/pop.
At the same time, you'll probably have a lot less people bucking the system just because they can.


I don't know where you live or shop, but as a handicapped person in NJ, I usually have to drive around several times to locate a handicapped parking space. As to your assertion that people park close to a store/mall and then walk for distance while in there, some people, like myself, can't walk long distances, so if a person could only walk a finite distance, why waste that distance 1/4 mile away when they can save their energy for use where it's needed.

As far as the curbing goes, that not only helps the handicapped, but the blind as well...those red & blue bumpy mats on the slope? That's an awesome invention to alert vision impaired pedestrians that they're about to step into the street...(it also alerts the stupid with their faces buried in their smart phones that they're about to do the same thing). I've never heard the cost as 10K per sidewalk...per intersection? That would sound reasonable. They are not there JUST for people in wheelchairs.

I will say this...you have some very interesting insights...I only hope that you're never in a position to have to avail yourself (or a family member) of the ramps/ spaces
 

Shouldigo12

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't blame the people so much as the government, well, and the people -overall- for supporting it, and the ADA bill from the early 1990s. It did a lot of damage.

Before businesses actually did have handicap spaces and they gauged them to the handicap people visiting their business. Now we have large portions of a parking lot, which we all still pay for through increased prices, so that virtually no one parks there. Further, consider the handicap person rolling up to a Walmart or Mall or whatever.. It feels good for the rest of us to have them park close but what do you think is happening as soon as they enter those doors?? They're traversing the same huge mall/big store the rest of us are!

I could say the same thing about service animals before the ADA. You'd see the odd person with a service animal and, the majority of the time, people understood. Now? You can get your pet snake to be a service animal just because you're afraid to answer the phone (no.. I'm not kidding).

Government screwed this up with a "feel-good" law instead of just letting people/individuals work it out for themselves.

Consider all of the sidewalks that have to be sloped on the corners for wheelchairs that you never see using them. The last I heard those sloped corners were about $10K/pop.

Consider the harm it does to someone who is handicap but can't get a job because they could, even if they weren't going to - the risk is still there, require the business to pay $100Ks for special equipment.

Also consider all of the motels/hotels a few years back who were mandated to put in $20K lifts at the side of ever pool and hot tub just in case.

Look - I don't want these folks to have a bad time and, at the same time, I think it could be handled without legislation and if you got rid of government as the middle man then suddenly Disney is able to make reasonable choices about what is a legitimate service animal and what isn't. At the same time, you'll probably have a lot less people bucking the system just because they can.
I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing. Are you saying we shouldn't provide handicapped parking spaces, sloped sidewalks, and other things like that?
 

NelleBelle

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't blame the people so much as the government, well, and the people -overall- for supporting it, and the ADA bill from the early 1990s. It did a lot of damage.

Before businesses actually did have handicap spaces and they gauged them to the handicap people visiting their business. Now we have large portions of a parking lot, which we all still pay for through increased prices, so that virtually no one parks there. Further, consider the handicap person rolling up to a Walmart or Mall or whatever.. It feels good for the rest of us to have them park close but what do you think is happening as soon as they enter those doors?? They're traversing the same huge mall/big store the rest of us are!

I could say the same thing about service animals before the ADA. You'd see the odd person with a service animal and, the majority of the time, people understood. Now? You can get your pet snake to be a service animal just because you're afraid to answer the phone (no.. I'm not kidding).

Government screwed this up with a "feel-good" law instead of just letting people/individuals work it out for themselves.

Consider all of the sidewalks that have to be sloped on the corners for wheelchairs that you never see using them. The last I heard those sloped corners were about $10K/pop.

Consider the harm it does to someone who is handicap but can't get a job because they could, even if they weren't going to - the risk is still there, require the business to pay $100Ks for special equipment.

Also consider all of the motels/hotels a few years back who were mandated to put in $20K lifts at the side of ever pool and hot tub just in case.

Look - I don't want these folks to have a bad time and, at the same time, I think it could be handled without legislation and if you got rid of government as the middle man then suddenly Disney is able to make reasonable choices about what is a legitimate service animal and what isn't. At the same time, you'll probably have a lot less people bucking the system just because they can.

I can somewhat see the point you are trying to get across re. "service" animals and agree with you that people are definitely abusing the definition of what a true service dog is. However, as an occupational therapist, I really take offense at your other comments regarding the ADA, handicap spaces, curb cuts, etc. Just because you may not benefit personally from these adaptations (and hopefully, may you never), these things are critical for individuals who are dependent on mobility devices (as @Smiley/OCD mentioned, may not always just be wheelchair uses, but individuals using walkers/canes, knee scooters, etc). Many of the laws enacted by the ADA enable those with disabilities to lead as independent a lifestyle as possible.
 
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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Government screwed this up with a "feel-good" law instead of just letting people/individuals work it out for themselves.

Can you please enlighten us as to how someone in a wheelchair is supposed to “work out” how to climb a pavement that has no slope?

These measures aren’t just “feel-good”; they offer real, practical benefits to those that need them. Count yourself lucky that you don’t.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I thought that might stir the pot.

Let's start off with this: Someone being handicap doesn't make their argument any better or worse nor does someone hoping I never have to deal with tending to a handicap person make any sort of difference in the argument. At the same time simply because I disagree with said law, or any law for that matter, doesn't mean I wish ill on anyone. That is typically how these arguments are frame when you get into them:
1) I'm handicap (whatever could be fat, black, white, etc.) and thus that alone gives credence to my argument.
2) (usually suggested, as in this case) You want these people (doesn't matter who) to suffer / you hate these people
3) (putting oneself on a pedestal because they want to be morally right) I hope you never have to deal with X!

The argument is this: The ADA was a "feel good" law which had numerous negative consequences but will never be repealed because of the arguments here. It put a gun to people's head to force them to comply through taxation, legislation, and litigation (Your sink is 1/4" too high - time to head to court to settle for $1M).

Before it came along people managed to get up and down curbs. I never saw a blind man stuck on a curb before the ADA because he couldn't step down a step. I did see the odd wheelchair bound person make it up a curb - still it was rare.

The ADA enacted all sort of feel-good measures, all well-intended, may of the pointlessly costly to businesses and governments (federal, state, and local). It sets up a situation where it actually inhibits a handicap person from being employed because the person making the employment decision, and they're not going to say this out loud, will have to be accommodating to their potential employee, and that could literally mean $thousands going out the door AND they have to make an even bigger case to fire this person (and they're still out all of that money). That's a bad bet. We all want it to be a good bet because pretending it's a good bet makes us feel good but it's a bad bet.

Let's say you own a small business.. First the most expensive part of a small business is just getting things up and running. You have to have all sorts of permits and pay all sorts of fees and have people come out and "certify" you, your building, your door, your toilet, whatever. That is a HUGE burden to bear when all you want to do is hang your shingle out. If you're already an established company you can, depending on your size and how well you're doing, absorb some of those costs and it makes the point of entry that much tougher for your potential future competition.

Let's say you have a business but you're still trying to get it up and running but there's another new regulation that you have to comply with such as the lifts for pools. You've never seen a handicap person at your place but now you have pay $10K for this lift and another $5-10K for it to be installed.. and sit dormant.

The thing people forget is that people aren't as crappy as you'd think and you don't need the full force of government to put a gun to their heads to "be good". I'd argue (and it's actually my argument) that using the force of government, instead of the force of the marketplace, is counter-productive to making things better. Left to their own freedom, people will generally, granted not always, try to do right by their customers. If they feel the need for handicap parking spots, which existed before the ADA forced them, then they'll put them in. There's all sorts of evidence that you didn't need the ADA to make any of this happen and people were already moving in that direction.

Ultimately: You don't need the force of government to solve all of your problems. The market is REALLY good at this and you can just be nice to people and explain your situation and eventually it'll spread.

Just think about it and try to wrap your head around it before automatically coming back with: "Well, Brad hates all handicap people everywhere and wants them all to die! I sure hope he's not in charge of how well handicap people live in the future!" (I know none of you actually said that but that's typically where the argument heads)

Think of it one more way: If the ADA were repealed today do you think:
- There would be no handicap spaces in front of Walmart? They'd likely be reduced to a more manageable level. It's extremely unlikely that they'd go away
- That people would build toilets 1/4" higher just to tick off the handicap?

Also consider that I'm not against the measures where they make sense but in the idea of forcing it on people. If you're a small town and no one is handicap, why do you need expensive sloped corners? It doesn't matter, you're forced to have them.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I thought that might stir the pot.

Let's start off with this: Someone being handicap doesn't make their argument any better or worse nor does someone hoping I never have to deal with tending to a handicap person make any sort of difference in the argument. At the same time simply because I disagree with said law, or any law for that matter, doesn't mean I wish ill on anyone. That is typically how these arguments are frame when you get into them:
1) I'm handicap (whatever could be fat, black, white, etc.) and thus that alone gives credence to my argument.
2) (usually suggested, as in this case) You want these people (doesn't matter who) to suffer / you hate these people
3) (putting oneself on a pedestal because they want to be morally right) I hope you never have to deal with X!

The argument is this: The ADA was a "feel good" law which had numerous negative consequences but will never be repealed because of the arguments here. It put a gun to people's head to force them to comply through taxation, legislation, and litigation (Your sink is 1/4" too high - time to head to court to settle for $1M).

Before it came along people managed to get up and down curbs. I never saw a blind man stuck on a curb before the ADA because he couldn't step down a step. I did see the odd wheelchair bound person make it up a curb - still it was rare.

The ADA enacted all sort of feel-good measures, all well-intended, may of the pointlessly costly to businesses and governments (federal, state, and local). It sets up a situation where it actually inhibits a handicap person from being employed because the person making the employment decision, and they're not going to say this out loud, will have to be accommodating to their potential employee, and that could literally mean $thousands going out the door AND they have to make an even bigger case to fire this person (and they're still out all of that money). That's a bad bet. We all want it to be a good bet because pretending it's a good bet makes us feel good but it's a bad bet.

Let's say you own a small business.. First the most expensive part of a small business is just getting things up and running. You have to have all sorts of permits and pay all sorts of fees and have people come out and "certify" you, your building, your door, your toilet, whatever. That is a HUGE burden to bear when all you want to do is hang your shingle out. If you're already an established company you can, depending on your size and how well you're doing, absorb some of those costs and it makes the point of entry that much tougher for your potential future competition.

Let's say you have a business but you're still trying to get it up and running but there's another new regulation that you have to comply with such as the lifts for pools. You've never seen a handicap person at your place but now you have pay $10K for this lift and another $5-10K for it to be installed.. and sit dormant.

The thing people forget is that people aren't as crappy as you'd think and you don't need the full force of government to put a gun to their heads to "be good". I'd argue (and it's actually my argument) that using the force of government, instead of the force of the marketplace, is counter-productive to making things better. Left to their own freedom, people will generally, granted not always, try to do right by their customers. If they feel the need for handicap parking spots, which existed before the ADA forced them, then they'll put them in. There's all sorts of evidence that you didn't need the ADA to make any of this happen and people were already moving in that direction.

Ultimately: You don't need the force of government to solve all of your problems. The market is REALLY good at this and you can just be nice to people and explain your situation and eventually it'll spread.

Just think about it and try to wrap your head around it before automatically coming back with: "Well, Brad hates all handicap people everywhere and wants them all to die! I sure hope he's not in charge of how well handicap people live in the future!" (I know none of you actually said that but that's typically where the argument heads)

Think of it one more way: If the ADA were repealed today do you think:
- There would be no handicap spaces in front of Walmart? They'd likely be reduced to a more manageable level. It's extremely unlikely that they'd go away
- That people would build toilets 1/4" higher just to tick off the handicap?

Also consider that I'm not against the measures where they make sense but in the idea of forcing it on people. If you're a small town and no one is handicap, why do you need expensive sloped corners? It doesn't matter, you're forced to have them.
People are "handicapped," not "handicap," and the word is outdated, regardless. Also, it's one of the least objectionable things in that post.
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
I thought that might stir the pot.

Let's start off with this: Someone being handicap doesn't make their argument any better or worse nor does someone hoping I never have to deal with tending to a handicap person make any sort of difference in the argument. At the same time simply because I disagree with said law, or any law for that matter, doesn't mean I wish ill on anyone. That is typically how these arguments are frame when you get into them:
1) I'm handicap (whatever could be fat, black, white, etc.) and thus that alone gives credence to my argument.
2) (usually suggested, as in this case) You want these people (doesn't matter who) to suffer / you hate these people
3) (putting oneself on a pedestal because they want to be morally right) I hope you never have to deal with X!

The argument is this: The ADA was a "feel good" law which had numerous negative consequences but will never be repealed because of the arguments here. It put a gun to people's head to force them to comply through taxation, legislation, and litigation (Your sink is 1/4" too high - time to head to court to settle for $1M).

Before it came along people managed to get up and down curbs. I never saw a blind man stuck on a curb before the ADA because he couldn't step down a step. I did see the odd wheelchair bound person make it up a curb - still it was rare.

The ADA enacted all sort of feel-good measures, all well-intended, may of the pointlessly costly to businesses and governments (federal, state, and local). It sets up a situation where it actually inhibits a handicap person from being employed because the person making the employment decision, and they're not going to say this out loud, will have to be accommodating to their potential employee, and that could literally mean $thousands going out the door AND they have to make an even bigger case to fire this person (and they're still out all of that money). That's a bad bet. We all want it to be a good bet because pretending it's a good bet makes us feel good but it's a bad bet.

Let's say you own a small business.. First the most expensive part of a small business is just getting things up and running. You have to have all sorts of permits and pay all sorts of fees and have people come out and "certify" you, your building, your door, your toilet, whatever. That is a HUGE burden to bear when all you want to do is hang your shingle out. If you're already an established company you can, depending on your size and how well you're doing, absorb some of those costs and it makes the point of entry that much tougher for your potential future competition.

Let's say you have a business but you're still trying to get it up and running but there's another new regulation that you have to comply with such as the lifts for pools. You've never seen a handicap person at your place but now you have pay $10K for this lift and another $5-10K for it to be installed.. and sit dormant.

The thing people forget is that people aren't as crappy as you'd think and you don't need the full force of government to put a gun to their heads to "be good". I'd argue (and it's actually my argument) that using the force of government, instead of the force of the marketplace, is counter-productive to making things better. Left to their own freedom, people will generally, granted not always, try to do right by their customers. If they feel the need for handicap parking spots, which existed before the ADA forced them, then they'll put them in. There's all sorts of evidence that you didn't need the ADA to make any of this happen and people were already moving in that direction.

Ultimately: You don't need the force of government to solve all of your problems. The market is REALLY good at this and you can just be nice to people and explain your situation and eventually it'll spread.

Just think about it and try to wrap your head around it before automatically coming back with: "Well, Brad hates all handicap people everywhere and wants them all to die! I sure hope he's not in charge of how well handicap people live in the future!" (I know none of you actually said that but that's typically where the argument heads)

Think of it one more way: If the ADA were repealed today do you think:
- There would be no handicap spaces in front of Walmart? They'd likely be reduced to a more manageable level. It's extremely unlikely that they'd go away
- That people would build toilets 1/4" higher just to tick off the handicap?

Also consider that I'm not against the measures where they make sense but in the idea of forcing it on people. If you're a small town and no one is handicap, why do you need expensive sloped corners? It doesn't matter, you're forced to have them.
If you're a small town and no one is handicap, why do you need expensive sloped corners? It doesn't matter, you're forced to have them.

So, you're the mayor of a small town and there are no (AND IT'S HANDICAPPED) people in the town, why do you need them? Someone moves into town that IS handicapped...A perfectly healthy 30 year old has a congenital defect that causes him or her to have a stroke and now can't walk...STOP THE PRESSES!!! They now are forced to move out of the town they grew up in because YOU don't want your tax dollars to go towards complying with the ADA?

I used to own a small business and know EXACTLY what costs and laws come into play with the ADA...and I'm gonna let you in on a little secret...Those people that you had to accommodate ALSO spend money, well maybe not at your business...I would think Mayberry would willingly comply with the ADA so Otis wouldn't fall off a curb...

I know sarcasm reigns supreme on these threads (and I'm just as guilty as the next guy), but if these are your true beliefs, YOU get the award for the MOST insensitive person I have EVER had the pleasure (there's the sarcasm) to converse with.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Left to their own freedom, people will generally, granted not always, try to do right by their customers.

"Generally" and "try to" just aren't good enough, especially when we throw "not always" into the mix.

The market is REALLY good at this and you can just be nice to people and explain your situation and eventually it'll spread.

And "eventually" doesn't cut it, either (plus why should disabled people have to plead their case in order to bring about change?).
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
The argument is this: The ADA was a "feel good" law which had numerous negative consequences but will never be repealed because of the arguments here. It put a gun to people's head to force them to comply through taxation, legislation, and litigation (Your sink is 1/4" too high - time to head to court to settle for $1M).

Before it came along people managed to get up and down curbs. I never saw a blind man stuck on a curb before the ADA because he couldn't step down a step. I did see the odd wheelchair bound person make it up a curb - still it was rare.

The ADA enacted all sort of feel-good measures, all well-intended, may of the pointlessly costly to businesses and governments (federal, state, and local). It sets up a situation where it actually inhibits a handicap person from being employed because the person making the employment decision, and they're not going to say this out loud, will have to be accommodating to their potential employee, and that could literally mean $thousands going out the door AND they have to make an even bigger case to fire this person (and they're still out all of that money). That's a bad bet. We all want it to be a good bet because pretending it's a good bet makes us feel good but it's a bad bet.

Let's say you own a small business.. First the most expensive part of a small business is just getting things up and running. You have to have all sorts of permits and pay all sorts of fees and have people come out and "certify" you, your building, your door, your toilet, whatever. That is a HUGE burden to bear when all you want to do is hang your shingle out. If you're already an established company you can, depending on your size and how well you're doing, absorb some of those costs and it makes the point of entry that much tougher for your potential future competition.

Let's say you have a business but you're still trying to get it up and running but there's another new regulation that you have to comply with such as the lifts for pools. You've never seen a handicap person at your place but now you have pay $10K for this lift and another $5-10K for it to be installed.. and sit dormant.

The thing people forget is that people aren't as crappy as you'd think and you don't need the full force of government to put a gun to their heads to "be good". I'd argue (and it's actually my argument) that using the force of government, instead of the force of the marketplace, is counter-productive to making things better. Left to their own freedom, people will generally, granted not always, try to do right by their customers. If they feel the need for handicap parking spots, which existed before the ADA forced them, then they'll put them in. There's all sorts of evidence that you didn't need the ADA to make any of this happen and people were already moving in that direction.

Ultimately: You don't need the force of government to solve all of your problems. The market is REALLY good at this and you can just be nice to people and explain your situation and eventually it'll spread.

Just think about it and try to wrap your head around it before automatically coming back with: "Well, Brad hates all handicap people everywhere and wants them all to die! I sure hope he's not in charge of how well handicap people live in the future!" (I know none of you actually said that but that's typically where the argument heads)

Think of it one more way: If the ADA were repealed today do you think:
- There would be no handicap spaces in front of Walmart? They'd likely be reduced to a more manageable level. It's extremely unlikely that they'd go away
- That people would build toilets 1/4" higher just to tick off the handicap?

Also consider that I'm not against the measures where they make sense but in the idea of forcing it on people. If you're a small town and no one is handicap, why do you need expensive sloped corners? It doesn't matter, you're forced to have them.

Yes before the ADA laws came along, disabled people did exist and they did find ways to get along. But life was much more difficult for them and they were discriminated against. The ADA wasnt a feel good law. It was a civil rights law enacted to help people with a variety of disabilities to live, work, travel, exist in their communities without the fear of being discriminated against. Times change and it was time people with disabilities were treated fairly... just as the civil rights movement in the 60s saw that laws were enacted so people who once were discriminated by color would be treated fairly. Despite the market being good and people being good... there are many who arent and laws do need to be in place and enforced for those who will not do the right thing.
Yes the cost to start up any business is expensive and the accommodations needed to comply with the ADA adds to that cost. But there are many other codes cities/town require to start up a business that adds to the cost. Anyone starting up a business finds out those costs and figures it into the startup cost. As far as disabled access...There are disabled access credits, barrier removal tax deductions, and federal tax credits for businesses to remove barriers to make their businesses accessible. Other tax credits are available by the govt.
so business start ups are given help they need to comply.
I doubt you could show me one community in the USA that doesnt have a disabled person living in its area but disabled people travel and vacation so even if a community ever did exist without any disabled persons, they would have to accommodate those with disabilities who might travel there to work, vacation or visit. Many of the ADA laws also assist the elderly with their travel issues and there are no towns/ cities that exist without the elderly.
 

Lensman

Well-Known Member
I'm generally a free-market proponent, but there are certain concerns that a market will have trouble addressing, and for those concerns, I think that it is generally accepted that laws and regulation provide a better solution than depending on goodwill. For instance, laws against the dumping of toxic waste are helpful because it helps individuals and companies to avoid the tragedy of the commons.

This effect isn't necessarily directly related to the benefits to society of the ADA, but I think provides an economic underpinning for the economic benefit of ensuring that individuals and businesses don't benefit from actions that are detrimental to society as a whole.

The ADA itself is more akin to an Equal Opportunity Act for persons with disabilities.

Plus an unintended consequence is that most of us will benefit from it as we age.
 

dgauthier

Cajun Transplant
Yeah, I know, I'm gonna catch H**L for adding to this thread after ALL this time, but I couldn't resist...everyone see Sully, the late President George HW Bush's service dog...lying at the President's casket? THAT'S A SERVICE DOG!!!
There is a lot of good points in this thread, I am a type 1 fragile diabetic with a fully trained service animal (certified by a trainer and doctor required) that can detect thru scent a change in my blood glucose. She has helped me avoid extreme lows from happening which in turn reduces the risk of stoking out or other not so nice effects. Looking at me you would never know unless you would see all the appliances I have to wear just to function. I fully agree that people are abusing the system, where the law fails us all is it never set up a certification requirement. That in it's self would fix the problem of abusing the system. My service animal when on duty will not react to people coming up or yelling or noises that would effect normal animals. She will hold her business for extended times not just going when she wants. She will go into an eating establishment get under the table and so her job of protecting my health sh will not even take a snack while on duty
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
There is a lot of good points in this thread, I am a type 1 fragile diabetic with a fully trained service animal (certified by a trainer and doctor required) that can detect thru scent a change in my blood glucose. She has helped me avoid extreme lows from happening which in turn reduces the risk of stoking out or other not so nice effects. Looking at me you would never know unless you would see all the appliances I have to wear just to function. I fully agree that people are abusing the system, where the law fails us all is it never set up a certification requirement. That in it's self would fix the problem of abusing the system. My service animal when on duty will not react to people coming up or yelling or noises that would effect normal animals. She will hold her business for extended times not just going when she wants. She will go into an eating establishment get under the table and so her job of protecting my health sh will not even take a snack while on duty
What breed?
 

dgauthier

Cajun Transplant
You should post a photo...
You should post a photo...

profilepic15978_1[1].jpg
 

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