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Rumor Is the End of Innoventions Near?

TwilightZone

Well-Known Member
There's no worry for SSE at the moment since marni has said that it will be revamped.
Or something along those lines.
Now he didn't say anything about characters or IPs, but I'm sure disney will try their best to keep SSE mostly IP free.
But I'm an optimist.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I find myself slowly developing a similar opinion. I think the boring Nemo dark ride and lackluster Three Caballeros/Frozen rides demonstrate how the answer is not necessarily IP. Epcot shouldn’t be the Magic Kingdom Part II.

But as it exists now, Epcot is mostly outdated. In the 80s, small-minded people complained EPCOT Center was boring, but plenty of guests loved it. Today, it’s little more than a massive (overpriced) food court with remnants of the 80s and 90s, laced with a few really good attractions and a whole lot of mediocrity.
All of those attractions you mentioned were retrofits with low budgets. That rarely works, we know this.

IPs can work in Epcot if given the proper funding and story. Epcot needs a cohesive theme and whether or not the includes IPs or original concepts is largely irrelevant. It has been rudderless since 1997 and I'm not seeing any sign of that changing. It's survived on the backs of halfway decent attractions and festivals, but it's less than a year away from having the worst attraction lineup of any Disney park in the country.

I have a handful of ideas and I'm a nobody. There are too many intelligent and creative people in Imagineering to allow this to continue, yet it seems that it is. Until proven otherwise, I am anticipating Epcot to be another version of the Magic Kingdom, but somehow more disjointed.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Yes, it is.

Fun fact. You’ll be glad to know today’s crowds are not exceptional and are nowhere near pushing the infrastructure.

I’m happy to clear up this little misunderstanding.

happy new year.
Today's crowds are absolutely pushing the newly created Next Gen infrastructure. That's undeniable. However, I highly doubt that's what you're referring to.

I think attraction wise, they're pushing the THPC for every park. The new builds can't come soon enough but each park will need more ride capacity as soon as possible.
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
All of those attractions you mentioned were retrofits with low budgets. That rarely works, we know this.

IPs can work in Epcot if given the proper funding and story. Epcot needs a cohesive theme and whether or not the includes IPs or original concepts is largely irrelevant. It has been rudderless since 1997 and I'm not seeing any sign of that changing. It's survived on the backs of halfway decent attractions and festivals, but it's less than a year away from having the worst attraction lineup of any Disney park in the country.

I have a handful of ideas and I'm a nobody. There are too many intelligent and creative people in Imagineering to allow this to continue, yet it seems that it is. Until proven otherwise, I am anticipating Epcot to be another version of the Magic Kingdom, but somehow more disjointed.
What type of budget does EPCOT need to have a theme park worthy of the Disney name?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
“Discovery” cannot be a theme park, but there are plenty of Discovery Centers around the world. They cost under $40 admission and $100 family yearly membership. I bought a membership when my kid was 5 years old. My kid already outgrew it after a year so we didn’t renew. There’s no point of duplicating the Discovery concept in a theme park, just like duplicating a Zoo at Animal Kingdom. They’re rightfully returning to theme parks especially since theme parks are more lucrative and can charge higher admissions. Zoos cost $40 at most to enter, but Animal Kingdom costs well over $100 and more people attend.
I think Discovery absolutely works as a Future World re-theme.

Call it Discovery Expo and bring back the World's fair mentality. A few things that would help either individually or all together as a means of unifying the front half of Epcot

  • Reconsider the post show/queue concept. Post Shows in EPCOT Center extended our time in Pavilions, now longer queues extend our time in pavilion. Revisit the Dumbo, Fallon, Fast and Furious approach where you can (I'm looking at you Test Track) and allow guests to actually enjoy the Pavilion experience again.
  • Horizons can return, but not in the form we know. Look back at Brava Centauri, Mesa Verde and Sea Castle Resort and use those future city concepts as inspirations for new/repurposed attractions at The Land, The Seas and Mission: SPACE pavilions
  • Celebrate discovery as opposed to the future. Original EPCOT attractions looked at the history of a particular topic, not necessarily the future. Discovery is more timeless than a "Future World"
  • Come up with a SEA equivalent (or use SEA itself) to celebrate the Discoverers. This can include characters like Dreamfinder or even Peter Quill. I'd also consider pavilion specific characters again like The Land Keeper or other variants.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Wakanda would work in FW far better than Zootopia.

Wall-E also a good choice. IMO.

WiR, Incredibles. Many possibilities.
Apart from Wall-E (kinda), a biggggg no to all of the above.
Wakanda is a city inside Africa. They wear African style clothing with wild animals roaming around. It doesn’t fit an urban Future World.

Wall-E represents a destroyed future. Future Dystopian World.

Incredibles and Big Hero 6 would be the best choices. Just IP. No commentary.
Eureka, I got it!

The fictional country of Wakanda with a presence in World Showcase, that also features a Marvel IP with a presence in Future World. All one pavilion.

Would fit perfectly on the Imagination pad. Plenty of land available. Access from either part of Epcot.

Oh yeah. This would work perfectly.

We will work to be an example of how we as brothers and sisters on this Earth should treat each other. Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.

The quote above is taken from the end credit's scene of Black Panther in a speech to the UN. That SCREAMS EPCOT Center to me. There is absolutely a story treatment for a technologically superior country or super element. EPCOT Center was not always grounded in reality. It was pseudo science at best and there are elements of Wakanda that would certainly work in Epcot.

Part of why Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon is that it went against our previous interpretation of African cultures and traditions being rooted in poor tribal beliefs. The movie emphasizes the cultural beliefs but also the technological superiority of the Wakandan people. It's a work of fiction that prays on the assumption (and a touch of racism) that such a technological superiority could not be combined with such a primitive culture/belief system.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see movies used sparingly in Epcot, but if they're going to be used I think Black Panther actually does work better than any movie currently represented in the park (or Ratatouille or Guardians).
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
We will work to be an example of how we as brothers and sisters on this Earth should treat each other. Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.

The quote above is taken from the end credit's scene of Black Panther in a speech to the UN. That SCREAMS EPCOT Center to me. There is absolutely a story treatment for a technologically superior country or super element. EPCOT Center was not always grounded in reality. It was pseudo science at best and there are elements of Wakanda that would certainly work in Epcot.

Part of why Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon is that it went against our previous interpretation of African cultures and traditions being rooted in poor tribal beliefs. The movie emphasizes the cultural beliefs but also the technological superiority of the Wakandan people. It's a work of fiction that prays on the assumption (and a touch of racism) that such a technological superiority could not be combined with such a primitive culture/belief system.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see movies used sparingly in Epcot, but if they're going to be used I think Black Panther actually does work better than any movie currently represented in the park (or Ratatouille or Guardians).

Someone mentioned that it couldn't work in FW because FW is in Florida. Then I realized Soarin' is sitting right there.

I also think it would free Imagineering up to create some non-IP content around WS that could then become films. The PotC is a good example that proves it's possible.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
They could probably fix the whole park with the Guardians budget. But that would be with minimal effort. I say give them half a billion and bam, whole park can be refreshed, new attractions built, spirit of Epcot restored.

1 to 2 billion over the next 12 years if they are planning a 5th gate.

3 to 4 if they are not.

Ballpark. Purely a guess.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
3 Billion built the whole park up from wetlands. No way dude

Adjust that for inflation and spread over 12 years. A 5th gate would cost at least that much.

It really all depends how much of a transition they intend. My number includes the rumored hotel and probably necessary transportation and infrastructure upgrades. They could easily spend that much.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, I want to see movies used sparingly in Epcot, but if they're going to be used I think Black Panther actually does work better than any movie currently represented in the park (or Ratatouille or Guardians).

BUT - are you ok with Wakanda in World Showplace? Because from a story treatment side that's where it would be built.

Whereas a Stark Expo-type sponsorship would fall in FW.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
BUT - are you ok with Wakanda in World Showplace? Because from a story treatment side that's where it would be built.

Whereas a Stark Expo-type sponsorship would fall in FW.
I don't think Wakanda belongs in World Showcase/place.

I think that to the extent Disney can use the Marvel properties, they will go in Epcot and most likely Future World.
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
I don't think Wakanda belongs in World Showcase/place.

I think that to the extent Disney can use the Marvel properties, they will go in Epcot and most likely Future World.
Any other implementation of Wakanda at Epcot, other than what you've suggested, would be laughable and a disgrace to the parks. So naturally I'm inclined to believe World SHowcase is exactly where it will end up being.
 

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