Chi84
Premium Member
Either find something to complain about or get out! What's wrong with you?
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Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
- Start date
Parks and Experiences are not managed today for their own profit and loss numbers. They are managed specifically to bring in MAXIMUM...possible...profit so that it can be REMOVED "away" from the parks to prop up the other failing areas of the company.
I don't know if Disney has ever needed to lean this hard on parks to survive in the past 30 years. Movies, merchandise, cable, linear TV and ad-sales were BOOMING STRONG in the 1990's - 2020. Every Disney division was bringing in it's own fair share of excellent profit.
Today, it's NOT like that.
Disney Plus = 15+ billion paid. (First dollar profit this year. Now they have to recover that 15 billion lost over time)
Fox purchase = 72 billion paid. (Worth it? Many don't think so. Some say Bob Iger over-payed 30 billion)
HULU purchase = 9+ billion paid. (Disney was forced to.)
Pandemic survival loans = ? Billion
Burbank as a lot of debt to service every day....and what did Bob Iger get for all of that spending and debt?
Parks and experiences ARE the largest and best "cash register" the company has today...BY FAR. (Only if they keep park operational spending low and prices high)
Nelson Peltz DID say early this year that Burbank was over-harvesting Park profits and leaning on the Parks and Experiences WAY too hard. I think he is right.
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
If only the Disney Parks and Resorts didn’t have to fund all the other company failures….and Bob’s yachts
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Look,...in 2025, I think this problem is going to get worse. What are we hearing now?
The Monorail track and trains are being safety inspected and there is talk that SIGNIFICANT cost "could" be necessary to get the old trains and track up to speed. This is all a RUMOR folks...but, there is "chatter" that Burbank is discussing the viability of even having the monorail anymore. How necessary is it vs how much will it cost to revamp?
Supposedly, they are weighing out the pros and cons of spending all that maintenance money needed. Think about it! (Again folks, this is money they DON'T want to spend and money they want to move to other company areas)
Hey Burbank, I have some other suggestions for you:
If the Monorail was gone, would the parks "lose" ANY ACTUAL "profit" because of that? If the monorail cost 1 billion to renovate but the parks only lost $500 million in revenue over time by "not" having it?...Burbank SAVES $500 million.
See?
The Monorail track and trains are being safety inspected and there is talk that SIGNIFICANT cost "could" be necessary to get the old trains and track up to speed. This is all a RUMOR folks...but, there is "chatter" that Burbank is discussing the viability of even having the monorail anymore. How necessary is it vs how much will it cost to revamp?
Supposedly, they are weighing out the pros and cons of spending all that maintenance money needed. Think about it! (Again folks, this is money they DON'T want to spend and money they want to move to other company areas)
- Does the Monorail bring in a "quantifiable" profit value number? (nope, it's all guesswork?)
- Does the daily operational cost justify having it? (depends on the cost amount?)
- Will Lagoon hotels thrive without it? (I think the monorail is required for that loop?)
- Can the Epcot loop be shut down to save HUGE cost? (Possibly, yes but that would anger me!)
- Can Burbank charge each monorail ride on the app to cover costs? (Sure, $10 per person per ride?)
Hey Burbank, I have some other suggestions for you:
- Busses are free today. Maybe you could charge $10 per person, per ride on the Disney app-pay
- The Ferry is free. Do the same $10 Disney app-pay to ride. (create a walk path to MK from TTC for non-payers)
- Parking trams are free. Charge $10 per ride on the Disney app-pay too? (Just walk to the TTC if you don't want to pay)
If the Monorail was gone, would the parks "lose" ANY ACTUAL "profit" because of that? If the monorail cost 1 billion to renovate but the parks only lost $500 million in revenue over time by "not" having it?...Burbank SAVES $500 million.
See?
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…I’ve long said that it’s days are numbered
They will NEVER pay to replace that system and it would be necessary…no machine/stucture last forever
I have a big family trip coming up to the swamps in less than a month. I think after this though my next trips will be to Japan until TDO turns things around.
Maybe I’ll talk to @Sirwalterraleigh and he will recommend a good cruise.
The amount of money I’m spending for what I’m getting just doesn’t add up anymore.
Maybe I’ll talk to @Sirwalterraleigh and he will recommend a good cruise.
The amount of money I’m spending for what I’m getting just doesn’t add up anymore.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
It’s just the trajectory they’ve pursued…
Declining value with incessant price increases
Rep and nostalgia only take you so far
I think learning to speak Japanese in my free time will be fun anyways. So it’s not all bad.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
They’ve kind of boxed themselves in from an operational/infrastructural standpoint, no? Unless they build a massive parking structure elsewhere adjacent to the MK?
That doesn’t even touch on the issue of how it would affect the propped up values of the Monorail resorts.
Yeah. Poly, Contemporary and Floridian "need" that monorail. Will Disney make those people walk to the parks? The Ferry boats have been beefed-up in the past two years with the new docks and I'm guessing that those boats could be the primary way to get all TTC folks into MK and back.
We know that Burbank is scrounging for every penny in daily cost savings and revenue generation,...so what if:
1.) Burbank cuts the TTC trains to MK and forces all guests to ride the ferry. (free,... for now)
2.) Keep only the resort loop running.
3.) Remove the entire Epcot line forever.
This will drastically cut down the number of trains needed to be revamped and maintained. Track maintenance and daily staffing will be hugely reduced. Basically, the only people that will ever ride the monorail again would be those hotel guests.
This "would" allow the iconic "Disney Monorail" to exist "visually" for WDW guests and it can still be used for marketing. However, maybe the daily operational cost could be 25% of what would be needed for an entire system revamp??
Not joking on this too: "Free" bus rides and parking tram rides could also end as well. Charging for every Buss and tram ride on the app is a legitimate way that Burbank can recover transportation spending costs and even make a bit of profit too. I don't like it...but $10 per person per ride seems to be a plausible "Disney charge" amount.
Burbank can't afford to put dollars every day into services without seeing any "specific" dollars returning back from each investment. I think that we can all expect that those days are gone and they are not returning again.
The Disney app has proven itself to be a superb "cash register" for Disney and "one touch spending" is keeping is everything now.
P&L = Profit and loss - Spend the least possible money on daily park upkeep and labor to increase profit margins.
ARPU = Average revenue per user - Squeeze every single penny possible from guests to increase proft margins.
We can all debate the reasons why we got here today. Doesn't matter anymore. This is where we are now.
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tpoly88
Well-Known Member
I like the more serious you! was just there yesterday and Epcot was pretty full, above normal but ive seen worse. We were going to go the Merry Christmas party at MK but at $210 a person, made me pause and do something else but guess what? it was sold out anyway without me, so people are paying for it. One thing to know is people are willing to pay for a premium experience, whether it be for a sporting event, airline seats or a vacation. I see it in places i used to go often but not anymore as they have priced me out. Little Palm Island is an example, great place but not worth $2500-$4000 a night but people are paying it. Disney realized they can do the same with less, offer premium experiences and higher food prices and if the attendance is down its better for them. Unfortunately for Disney, a lot of the people that are not there are at universal or other vacations (Europe, carribean , etc.) but when you lose these customers, hard to get them back and they realize there is another option...
Quick example of the parties over- Napa Valley Ca, was just there in October for harvest, one of their busiest times and the hotels were not full, nor the wineries. Inventories are not going down and they are just selling juice and grapes for below mkt to get rid of it. What happened? Napa priced themselves out as a bottle of cab is avg $100 or more and they are charging $150-$600 a tasting in some places and all the younger generation do not want to spend that money on wine and would rather drink spirits or go to other wine regions that are cheaper. Napa didnt see the change coming and got way over their skiis, Disney is starting to do the same.
No,...no,..no. I like the fun, irreverent, snarky, sarcastic "me" better. I have more fun with those posts than I do when I get serious. My serious posts are a downer....like this one.
I find this thing to very odd:
Many people started saying that Disney had lost touch with it's customers years ago and was beginning to go downhill.
Soooo many Disney fans accused these people of being Disney "haters" and "liars" that had "no clue" of what they were talking about. To large portions of Disney fans, everything was fine and Disney was in a SOLID market position. Burbank started to warn investors (for legal reasons, they need to be truthful) and wrote this in the official SEC filings to investors:
Disney told investors that the company's revenues and profits "are adversely impacted when our entertainment offerings and products, as well as our methods to make our offerings and products available to consumers, do not achieve sufficient consumer acceptance.
Burbank was admitting their critics WERE correct! For multiple quarters, Burbank openly ADMITTED that parks attendance was slowing. They publically said this over and over again. Meanwhile, many, MANY fans said: "Nope, the parks attendance is perfectly FINE and anybody that says otherwise is a horrible, Disney-hating liar" People even said: "Parks are not slowing,..I was just there and it was PACKED, I saw it with my own two eyes,..so it's ALL just crazy un-true hater-talk"
Burbank has made this fact painfully clear that parks attendance is slowing down AND have even made predictions warning investors...in advance,..that their parks will be down in 2025. And yet again,...people will continue to refute this concept with every fiber of their soul. Do these fans really think that Burbank would lie to the world about this? Really? Why do so many Disney fans deny this concept: The parks ARE slowing down. This a 100% fact and it's OK for fans to finally accept this as a hard truth.
Parks attendance decline is an aggregated number based on weeks and months and quarters of calculations. It's also based on month numbers across different years. Example How did Oct 2024 compare to Oct 2023 or Oct 2022 or Oct 2021...etc. Nobody can go for a day or week and "see" those numbers from "their" individual trip. Nobody can "see" these numbers with their eyes in the parks that Disney collects
This is what I think: Burbank has been rotten for 5 years. (The downfall began before that,..right about when Fox was purchased) It's being run by people who do NOT love this company. They have made DOZENS of horrifically bad business decisions in the parks and in the studios. (Lucasfilm, Pixar and Marvel) They have WAY OVER-spent on Disney+....maybe 5 times more than they should have. They wrongfully expected it to be a giant money-maker and the exact OPPOSITE has happened. Burbank has taken the BEST money-maker they have,...the parks,..and CRIPPLED their ability to help the company in the future. They destroyed EPCOT first and now they are destroying Magic Kingdom next. (River of America and more) They have (supposed) "big turbo-charge" plans for the parks "tomorrow"...but no money yet for daily operations and proper maintenance of these parks TODAY.
Seriously Burbank?...if you have to SEVERLY over-charge slumping numbers of guests for everything and slash park maintenance?.... just to balance your books and keep profits FLAT?....how are you going to get the money to build all these billions in new park ideas in the future? Burbank needs to be CLEANED out. Put in new people that actually love the company and won't blow billions and billions on B.S. things that don't really help the company brand!!!
Uggg,...no more serious posts. I'm going back to the irreverent, snarky, sarcastic, fun "me".
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GhostHost1000
Premium Member
The day Disney begins charging for bus transportation to/from parks and resorts is the day they might as well put up the going out of business sign
It very well could be necessary. Who knows?
Maybe I'm being too hard on the fine folks in Burbank. These folks in Burbank seem to be very intelligent, ivy League-educated market experts. These are the BEST of the best on paper.
If so,...maybe that could take some of the financial pressure off our parks...right?
Let's all cheer together: "Gooooooooo Studiooooos!!!!!"
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twilight mitsuk
Well-Known Member
or a resort fee
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
They could just yank them and bus.
“No…they couldn’t!!
”Dare them…because they continually sell sand to Saudis…metaphorically speaking
My condolences on Nutting
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
They already have about a $200 one of those built in…
But yes…there will be a standalone
You're right. I got a bit too passionate last night. Just took all the red color and most of the bold out.
I'm 55 years old and I have been a super loyal warrior for the brand ever since I was 10 years old. So yeah, that's 45 years of deeply loving and caring about this brand and spending a ton of my hard-earned money on it.
Sometimes that "caring" feeling suddenly roars back in me.
The process of stopping and letting all that go isn't easy....
As a "legacy fan", it's times like these where a Disney movie quote jumps out at me.
It's probably is truthful concept...especially when referring to the business model modernization of the parks today.
Out with the "old" ways to make room for the "new" ways of operating the company and the parks.
Burbank knows what they are doing and I guess "change" is always a good thing...