Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[celluloid]

Don't disagree but why is it when Disney has specials it's they're desperate but when universal does it's they're wavy?

Many variables.
Let's break this down to the biggest one:
Did Universal just open two E Tickets in the last two summers?

Or are they getting people to the second to last shoulder season with many limitations and ancillary opportunities before their biggest project since IOA and Citywalk?

 

[Jrb1979]

The most shocking thing is how locals are opting for SeaWorld and Busch Gardens instead of Disney. It's definitely not a good sign when locals are going away.

 

[hopemax]

Don't disagree but why is it when Disney has specials it's they're desperate but when universal does it's they're wavy?

If you can't see the difference between where the two companies are in their business cycles, I can't help you. Disney is trying to crack the streaming market, so specials for Disney+ wouldn't necessary read as "desperate," as it is actively working on increasing market share. However, their theme park business is a different kettle of fish. As has been pointed out, there is a thriving vacation economy out there and the leader in that line of business for almost 70 years is experiencing declines. The other is trying to transform itself from a day trip / short visit, to a legitimate week long vacation opportunity.

 

[Andrew25]

Just want to make it known, Disney (and Universal now) don't really pay attention to what SeaWorld is doing. SeaWorld is always running promotions (check the website each week, there's a different holiday or theme they choose, but it's the same promo).

SWO/BGT have always let their parks get run down unfortunately (especially in the last year or so), so I can't imagine what it'll be like next year. SeaWorld already haves staffing issues and they have yet to see the impact from Epic's hiring spree next year.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Just want to make it known, Disney (and Universal now) don't really pay attention to what SeaWorld is doing. SeaWorld is always running promotions (check the website each week, there's a different holiday or theme they choose, but it's the same promo).

SWO/BGT have always let their parks get run down unfortunately (especially in the last year or so), so I can't imagine what it'll be like next year. SeaWorld already haves staffing issues and they have yet to see the impact from Epic's hiring spree next year.

that is true...but SeaWorld does keep adding coasters.. in fact they have more than Disney or Universal. If only they'd learn to be more efficient with load/unload. It was so painful the last time I was there how long that took...which keeps the lines moving slow

 

[Disstevefan1]

that is true...but SeaWorld does keep adding coasters.. in fact they have more than Disney or Universal. If only they'd learn to be more efficient with load/unload. It was so painful the last time I was there how long that took...which keeps the lines moving slow

SeaWorld added three coasters in about three years!

It took over 5 years for Disney to destroy Future World in EPCOT.

 

[Andrew25]

that is true...but SeaWorld does keep adding coasters.. in fact they have more than Disney or Universal. If only they'd learn to be more efficient with load/unload. It was so painful the last time I was there how long that took...which keeps the lines moving slow

True, but taking 5-8 minute to load and dispatch each train make you cringe at how slow they run the rides. If it were a Disney/Universal ops crew, every ride would be a walk-on. (and management is to blame, not front line employees)

 

[monothingie]

After reading through the last few pages, I wanted to make the point that WDW appears to have really driven away locals. Earlier in the thread, I mentioned how when I went to SeaWorld earlier in the month to preview Penguin Trek, the park was incredibly crowded when compared to what I've been seeing with Disney and Universal this summer.

I just got back from Tampa after previewing the new coaster at Busch and again, pretty crowded for a Thursday, but checking wait times at Disney, it's pretty dead. I even made a detour through Disney property because I4 was so backed up and I passed by the MK parking lot which was remarkably empty.

Not only is travel from tourists down for WDW significantly, but it appears that SeaWorld is scooping up a lot of locals that no longer find Disney interesting either. From my observation, Universal seems to have seen a general attendance slump this summer as well, but I think that's because there's usually so much crossover with tourists visiting both resorts. It'll be interesting to see just how much Epic changes the equation for a lot of people.

The shill's response to this is: Good, Disney doesn't want locals anyway because they don't spend any money and just clog up the parks.

The local's response is: Good, they don't respect and want me as a guest, they're too expensive, and don't have anything interesting to see anymore.

The post-pandemic limiting of AP's under the various guises of capacity control and the continued use of park pass and hopping limitations, along with the massive price increases destroyed the relationship a lot of the most loyal and repeat guests had with Disney. The locals/AP holders were kicked to the curb in favor of the higher margin guests because the brain trust believed and maybe continues to believe that the unprecedented demand is here forever and all that matters for success is the higher margin guest.

This is the result of a company being run by people who are calling the shots by only looking at spreadsheets and who have no idea how their parks actually work.

 

[Disstevefan1]

True, but taking 5-8 minute to load and dispatch each train make you cringe at how slow they run the rides. If it were a Disney/Universal ops crew, every ride would be a walk-on. (and management is to blame, not front line employees)

SeaWorld is building and opening new attractions faster than they can train the staff I guess.

Not the worst problem to have I guess...

 

[Disstevefan1]

The shill's response to this is: Good, Disney doesn't want locals anyway because they don't spend any money and just clog up the parks.

The local's response is: Good, they don't respect and want me as a guest, they're too expensive, and don't have anything interesting to see anymore.

The post-pandemic limiting of AP's under the various guises of capacity control and the continued use of park pass and hopping limitations, along with the massive price increases destroyed the relationship a lot of the most loyal and repeat guests had with Disney. The locals/AP holders were kicked to the curb in favor of the higher margin guests because the brain trust believed and maybe continues to believe that the unprecedented demand is here forever and all that matters for success is the higher margin guest.

This is the result of a company being run by people who are calling the shots by only looking at spreadsheets and who have no idea how their parks actually work.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The shill's response to this is: Good, Disney doesn't want locals anyway because they don't spend any money and just clog up the parks.

The local's response is: Good, they don't respect and want me as a guest, they're too expensive, and don't have anything interesting to see anymore.

The post-pandemic limiting of AP's under the various guises of capacity control and the continued use of park pass and hopping limitations, along with the massive price increases destroyed the relationship a lot of the most loyal and repeat guests had with Disney. The locals/AP holders were kicked to the curb in favor of the higher margin guests because the brain trust believed and maybe continues to believe that the unprecedented demand is here forever and all that matters for success is the higher margin guest.

This is the result of a company being run by people who are calling the shots by only looking at spreadsheets and who have no idea how their parks actually work.

Those people calling the shots are also across the entire US on the west coast. They just want their Florida parks to make them money to pay for all their bad decisions elsewhere. They don’t care about the guests or the experience anymore sadly

 

[ZachPL]

Just want to make it known, Disney (and Universal now) don't really pay attention to what SeaWorld is doing. SeaWorld is always running promotions (check the website each week, there's a different holiday or theme they choose, but it's the same promo).

SWO/BGT have always let their parks get run down unfortunately (especially in the last year or so), so I can't imagine what it'll be like next year. SeaWorld already haves staffing issues and they have yet to see the impact from Epic's hiring spree next year.

For what seaworld gives in promotions they are making up for the absolutely insane price of food and hidden charges. Not to mention how awful all the food is outside of festivals. Makes disney look good

 

[monothingie]

Those people calling the shots are also across the entire US on the west coast. They just want their Florida parks to make them money to pay for all their bad decisions elsewhere. They don’t care about the guests or the experience anymore sadly

My gut feeling is that they also have varying levels of disdain and contempt for their theme park guests.

They’ve perceived themselves to have been on top for so long, that they don’t have to always put their best in, especially for the more mundane things. (Generic hotel renovations for example)

 

[Disstevefan1]

For what seaworld gives in promotions they are making up for the absolutely insane price of food and hidden charges. Not to mention how awful all the food is outside of festivals. Makes disney look good

I never really liked the food at SeaWorld but at one time they had a pizza buffet IT WAS GREAT!! It was the only place we ate when we went. Its gone now

 

[Saskdw]

Universal is struggling significantly as well and is projected to be through next Spring.

What begs to be seen is if they are causing pricing damage; by giving away unlimited IOA/USF access for 199 and then trying to push a three day ticket for 499-549 next year.

I honestly don’t think it’s something they are doing globally wrong, but people are purposefully putting off Universal visits this year.

The general sentiment among the Youtubers I follow is that Universal is reasonably busy and not struggling to the degree some of you are trying to indicate. In fact one of them actually references people on forums trying to indicate that and that it isn't true.

Offering a deal to locals doesn't necessarily mean they are desperate. They know people are waiting for Epic and just being proactive instead of reactive.

I'm not on the ground there, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting information.

 

[LSLS]

The general sentiment among the Youtubers I follow is that Universal is reasonably busy and not struggling to the degree some of you are trying to indicate. In fact one of them actually references people on forums trying to indicate that and that it isn't true.

Offering a deal to locals doesn't necessarily mean they are desperate. They know people are waiting for Epic and just being proactive instead of reactive.

I'm not on the ground there, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting information.

Their quarterly reports indicate Revenue was DOWN in Orlando last year, not even just attendance, so I highly doubt Universal doing significantly better than Disney at this point.

 

[HauntedPirate]

My gut feeling is that they also have varying levels of disdain and contempt for their theme park guests.

They’ve perceived themselves to have been on top for so long, that they don’t have to always put their best in, especially for the more mundane things. (Generic hotel renovations for example)

The only thing unprecedented under Iger has been their hubris. And their complete disdain for the unwashed masses, who they think are stupid and will continue to give them money hand over fist regardless of how much they charge.

 

[Lilofan]

I never really liked the food at SeaWorld but at one time they had a pizza buffet IT WAS GREAT!! It was the only place we ate when we went. Its gone now

The Ann. Busch pavilion where they had free samples of beer which we spent many afternoons drinking many samples with conch fritters we purchased is what I missed back in the day at Sea World Orlando.

 

[John park hopper]

Disney stock 96.02

 

[Jrb1979]

For what seaworld gives in promotions they are making up for the absolutely insane price of food and hidden charges. Not to mention how awful all the food is outside of festivals. Makes disney look good

IMO the problem I see many have with SeaWorld is expectations. You're looking for a Disney level park when it's more like a regional park.

As expensive as the food can be, buy the all day dining plan. It's $42 a person.