Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[GhostHost1000]

But to each their own! For me, a cruise is like if someone asked: "What if we took a typical eat-and-lay-around resort vacation, made the rooms tiny, trapped everyone on-site, removed any traces of real culture, but still kept it exploitative of cheap labor?"

If people are replacing their typical Disney vacations with other things, it seems like it would eventually create some pressure on Disney to make changes. But it really hasn't seemed to yet, and a lot of this talk about attendance being down seems more like wishful thinking on the part of those who want to see prices come down, crowds thin, and improvements at the parks.

Like many of our box office discussions here, I think a lot of people are really hoping for the tipping point on things that will make Disney revert back to whatever worked in the good old days. But I don't think that's going to happen because the world is different now.

Attendance and future bookings being down are definitely not wishful thinking, it’s reality

 

[TheIceBaron]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I think Disney is probably going to attempt something similar to airline elite status company wide. While there are perks Disney has for this and that like APs and DVCs, there is not an overarching program for encouraging additional spending.

For example I will earn status on Delta airlines this year in large part from booking a Delta vacation through them (with a delta branded cc). Every dollar spent on all Delta or partner products contributes to miles and status. Status is very valuable especially in the upper tiers.

The same could be on the horizon with Disney where earning Disney status could lead to things like early entry in the parks or complimentary genie+ and so forth. Or special access to new product offerings. This would encourage Disney fans to see a Disney movie in theaters that would normally bomb just to chase coveted status. All they care about is boosting guest spending and I don’t see that mentality changing so this could be the next logical step. For better or for worse.

 

[monothingie]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I think Disney is probably going to attempt something similar to airline elite status company wide. While there are perks Disney has for this and that like APs and DVCs, there is not an overarching program for encouraging additional spending.

For example I will earn status on Delta airlines this year in large part from booking a Delta vacation through them (with a delta branded cc). Every dollar spent on all Delta or partner products contributes to miles and status. Status is very valuable especially in the upper tiers.

The same could be on the horizon with Disney where earning Disney status could lead to things like early entry in the parks or complimentary genie+ and so forth. Or special access to new product offerings. This would encourage Disney fans to see a Disney movie in theaters that would normally bomb just to chase coveted status. All they care about is boosting guest spending and I don’t see that mentality changing so this could be the next logical step. For better or for worse.

If there were 4 other competitors that they needed to compete against to attract your business then you may be on to something. But in their minds they have no competition. In fact they have actively tried to push away their most loyal customers (AP holders) which are The closest thing they have to the frequent flier analogy.

Of course we all know that the family from Denver has many more choices than a Disney park or nowhere.

 

[_caleb]

Attendance and future bookings being down are definitely not wishful thinking, it’s reality

Oops. I meant a lot of the conversation around attendance being down. I believe it is down, but I think some here are hoping that it's going to mean changes at the parks, but it really hasn't seemed to yet.

 

[TheIceBaron]

If there were 4 other competitors that they needed to compete against to attract your business then you may be on to something. But in their minds they have no competition. In fact they have actively tried to push away their most loyal customers (AP holders) which are The closest thing they have to the frequent flier analogy.

Of course we all know that the family from Denver has many more choices than a Disney park or nowhere.

I’d argue with the recent box office performance that they do actually have lots of competitors and this program would facilitate additional spending on that end but for benefits elsewhere. Plus such a loyalty program being tied directly to the individual guest spending would not be the same type of arrangement as an annual pass.

 

[Tha Realest]

"What if we took a typical eat-and-lay-around resort vacation, made the rooms tiny, trapped everyone on-site, removed any traces of real culture, but still kept it exploitative of cheap labor?"

This thread it about WDW attendance. Why are you discussing Club-level accomodations?

 

[GhostHost1000]

Oops. I meant a lot of the conversation around attendance being down. I believe it is down, but I think some here are hoping that it's going to mean changes at the parks, but it really hasn't seemed to yet.

That’s because Disney isn’t as bothered about lower attendance if they can keep charging more for those coming and make more $ with less people (and less staff)

Probably why we still have park reservations for AP holders (cause they don’t spend as much as the family there for a week going all out) and lots of after hours events now (for double gate $ days)

 

[Kman]

Historically, can anyone comment on how busy the parks are doing the marathon weekend? We are arriving the weekend before for 10 nights. Any help?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

But to each their own! For me, a cruise is like if someone asked: "What if we took a typical eat-and-lay-around resort vacation, made the rooms tiny, trapped everyone on-site, removed any traces of real culture, but still kept it exploitative of cheap labor?"

We did a Norwegian Fjords cruise last year and it felt like real culture to me, we saw Unesco world heritage Fjords, visited windmills, walked the waterfront, and took a river cruise in Rotterdam, hiked all over Norway, and then spent a couple weeks in London, Paris, and Oslo.

I agree cruising isn’t for everyone but they are far more than eating and drinking and laying by the pool, although we love that aspect too, we’ve visited places in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Europe we’d likely never have seen otherwise, we have an Alaskan cruise and a Panama Canal cruise in the works and I can’t wait, it’s a great way to see the world without having to pack and unpack every couple days.

 

[Doberge]

I was going to save this story for another time, but this seems relevant.

Last Sunday I was doing a VIP tour with my extended family. Everyone but the old people (my mom) and the delicate people (me and my sister Chrissy) go on Guardians. Mom, Chrissy, and I go to Connections Cafe to wait in chairs, with A/C.

As we're waiting to order, the two families in front of us start talking. The first family is telling the second how great DAS is - they've been on 7 rides by lunch, no waiting, they've already got stuff lined up for the afternoon, etc.

The dad in the second family says "It sounds great but I don't think we qualify."

The first dad says (and I'm paraphrasing) "No no no no no - they can't check. You just say something about autism and how your kids can't wait in line. And it's FREE! We're saving so much money!" HE CONTINUES to explain the DAS process, including the minimum you need to say, and urges the second family to go sign up right after eating.

I look at Chrissy (she's done the DAS counting). Chrissy looks at me. We exchange the "people suck" look and continue to wait for our sodas.

Yeah that's frustrating. My son is on the spectrum and we buy Genie+ for him (and by extension, our family of four) because, in our opinion, he doesn't qualify and we're not going to lie about it. Over time we've paid hundreds of dollars, likely over one grand.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is how I feel about people that like cruises.

You'd have to pay me a lot of money to get me to willingly agree to a cruise (except maybe a European river cruise, but that's almost a fundamentally different thing). It's like a worse version of an all-inclusive resort, and those are bad enough.

Cruise lines have raised their game significantly over the last 20 years

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oops. I meant a lot of the conversation around attendance being down. I believe it is down, but I think some here are hoping that it's going to mean changes at the parks, but it really hasn't seemed to yet.

The only viable path to more park investment is regime change

 

[Bastet]

Question for DAS users - if it is a replacement for you to wait outisde of a standby queue, why are you allowed to hold a DAS pass and q for another ride? Anyone else waiting in a standby line cant do this unless they are using genie+! No wonder usage has increased!!!

I was going to save this story for another time, but this seems relevant.

Last Sunday I was doing a VIP tour with my extended family. Everyone but the old people (my mom) and the delicate people (me and my sister Chrissy) go on Guardians. Mom, Chrissy, and I go to Connections Cafe to wait in chairs, with A/C.

As we're waiting to order, the two families in front of us start talking. The first family is telling the second how great DAS is - they've been on 7 rides by lunch, no waiting, they've already got stuff lined up for the afternoon, etc.

The dad in the second family says "It sounds great but I don't think we qualify."

The first dad says (and I'm paraphrasing) "No no no no no - they can't check. You just say something about autism and how your kids can't wait in line. And it's FREE! We're saving so much money!" HE CONTINUES to explain the DAS process, including the minimum you need to say, and urges the second family to go sign up right after eating.

I look at Chrissy (she's done the DAS counting). Chrissy looks at me. We exchange the "people suck" look and continue to wait for our sodas.

Says it all. I would still like to know why using DAS puts people in a better position than not using it. I didnt think it was supposed to do that! Not to mention being able to pre book if you apply before visit!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was going to save this story for another time, but this seems relevant.

Last Sunday I was doing a VIP tour with my extended family. Everyone but the old people (my mom) and the delicate people (me and my sister Chrissy) go on Guardians. Mom, Chrissy, and I go to Connections Cafe to wait in chairs, with A/C.

As we're waiting to order, the two families in front of us start talking. The first family is telling the second how great DAS is - they've been on 7 rides by lunch, no waiting, they've already got stuff lined up for the afternoon, etc.

The dad in the second family says "It sounds great but I don't think we qualify."

The first dad says (and I'm paraphrasing) "No no no no no - they can't check. You just say something about autism and how your kids can't wait in line. And it's FREE! We're saving so much money!" HE CONTINUES to explain the DAS process, including the minimum you need to say, and urges the second family to go sign up right after eating.

I look at Chrissy (she's done the DAS counting). Chrissy looks at me. We exchange the "people suck" look and continue to wait for our sodas.

I’ve heard quite a few tales of abuse of late…usually followed up with the “why shouldn’t I?” Guilty look

 

[John park hopper]

No different than support animal abuse, every good program low life people will abuse

 

[Andrew25]

Historically, can anyone comment on how busy the parks are doing the marathon weekend? We are arriving the weekend before for 10 nights. Any help?

Very Busy

 

[HauntedPirate]

But to each their own! For me, a cruise is like if someone asked: "What if we took a typical eat-and-lay-around resort vacation, made the rooms tiny, trapped everyone on-site, removed any traces of real culture, but still kept it exploitative of cheap labor?"

If people are replacing their typical Disney vacations with other things, it seems like it would eventually create some pressure on Disney to make changes. But it really hasn't seemed to yet, and a lot of this talk about around attendance being down seems more like wishful thinking on the part of those who want to see prices come down, crowds thin, and improvements at the parks.

Like many of our box office discussions here, I think a lot of people are really hoping for the tipping point on things that will make Disney revert back to whatever worked in the good old days. But I don't think that's going to happen because the world is different now.

Genuine question - How many cruises have you been on?

I guess thinking Disney could "revert to the good old days" when they made a couple of original rides now and then that lasted decades because they were timeless is an outlandish idea. That would require an executive layer that values creativity, originality, and retains the talent with those qualities instead of viewing them as expendable.

 

[JD80]

It sounds like there is some momentum internally to re-incentivize onsite bookings with additional inclusions.

Without specifics, I wouldn't be surprised if some form of DME and maybe, just maybe, "free" Genie+ with certain tiers of hotel package stays were in play. It's one of the few levers they have available that could take effect prior to EU's opening.

That will get people to look but I don't think it'll have a major impact.

DME saves you maybe $100 in uber/bus costs per family? Free G+ at deluxe books when rack rate is way too expensive for "average" guests? Even then, a family of 4 you're maybe saving $100 per park day? That's basically in the same realm as a rack rate discount you'd get. In same cases a 30% rack rate discount may be a better deal.

They won't have a significant impact in bookings unless they start offering ticket discounts/deals.

Just for an extreme example (family of 4), the cost of 4 park tickets today is around the same cost (adjusted for inflation) as a package of 10 in 2019. Today, going from 3 to 4 tickets is roughly +$600. In 2019 it was +$440 (overall cost $2300 vs $1900).

Going from 4 to 5? 2024: +$300 | 2019: $50

Anyway, the biggest cost driver in a WDW vacation is park tickets, at least for families. Value/Mods prices aren't awful.

 

[Andrew25]

Anyway, the biggest cost driver in a WDW vacation is park tickets, at least for families. Value/Mods prices aren't awful.

Hotel pricing has definitely dropped off the highs back in 2022, parks are filled with lots of FL residents now taking advantage of 2-3 day $200 ticket deals.

I am very interested in seeing what happens when people start planning trips for Epic Universe and are met with a ~$300 3-day Universal ticket and a ~$600 WDW 4-day ticket (and that's without park hoppers and picking an average priced day).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That will get people to look but I don't think it'll have a major impact.

DME saves you maybe $100 in uber/bus costs per family? Free G+ at deluxe books when rack rate is way too expensive for "average" guests? Even then, a family of 4 you're maybe saving $100 per park day? That's basically in the same realm as a rack rate discount you'd get. In same cases a 30% rack rate discount may be a better deal.

They won't have a significant impact in bookings unless they start offering ticket discounts/deals.

Just for an extreme example (family of 4), the cost of 4 park tickets today is around the same cost (adjusted for inflation) as a package of 10 in 2019. Today, going from 3 to 4 tickets is roughly +$600. In 2019 it was +$440 (overall cost $2300 vs $1900).

Going from 4 to 5? 2024: +$300 | 2019: $50

Anyway, the biggest cost driver in a WDW vacation is park tickets, at least for families. Value/Mods prices aren't awful.

Those kinda hooks used to work. It wouldn’t take much to have people say “let’s just stay in wdw and make it simple…”

What changed?

Genie. Plain and simple. The stories of its complexity and commitment spread by the day.

Turns out…people actually like “leisure” in many cases